Bret Hart pins blame for CM Punk’s departure from WWE on Triple H

[Gina Minehart]

I would comfortably rate hhh a better wrestler than bret and would much rather see him in a match or feud.

I would also use the word overrated for bret because a lot of people rate him top 5 of all time or better and i have him nowhere near it so for me that is overrated.

I know i am in the minority but i have watched most of bret's matches multiple times and nothing has changed my mind thus far.

You have to be kidding....hart shits on hhh from mt Kilimanjaro

Tell me why you think hhh is better?

 

[Gina Minehart]

Top 5 of all time for me

Hart
Benoit
Guerrero
RVD
Jerry Lynn

 

[Valheru]

Err.... Dwayne Johnson??

Him and his pals did everything they could to keep the rock down... To the point where to this day the rock refuses to work with HBK.

This is a bit revisionist. Rocky didnt sign with wwf well into 1996, i cant find an exact date but he debuted at aurvivor series so one would assume post may 96 when nash hall and waltman bailed.

Yes we all know the problems he had with hbk but post mania 98 from all reports hhh and rock had a great working relationship which continues to this day

Incidentally he won his first title in feb 97 from hhh...

 

[Valheru]

You have to be kidding....hart shits on hhh from mt Kilimanjaro

Tell me why you think hhh is better?

I'm not kidding, it's ok i am used to this response.

I've stated on here multiple times and in this thread why i believe hhh is better.

 

[Tommy Smith]

how can anyone call Bret Hart overrated (laughable), then say they are big fan of HHH

HHH is an above average wrestler with a very limited skill set - & a shit human being by all reports

Why didn't the thread end after this comment?

Bret Hart is arguably the greatest wrestler of the modern WWF/E era. He's certainly in the pantheon with the likes of Kurt Hennig, Angle, Guerrero and Steamboat to name a select few.

He also worked his ass off more than any wrestler without being a primadona during his prime. Granted he couldn't cut a promo like a SCSA or Rock, or even HHH, but he was still above average in that department and had more charisma than most. He also entertained in the ring, you know, wrestled, as well as anyone.

Overrated? Get stuffed. (Yes, I get very defensive of my childhood wrestling hero )

 

[Hoggmaster]

Laugh away, chuckles.

You're obviously one of those people who struggle to understand basic English - "over-rated" doesn't mean "bad".

Hulk Hogan was over-rated, and he's still a legend of the industry.

I consider wrestlers on all key pillars, including mic skills and charisma, and Hart sucked at that.

There's no doubt he was a great technical wrestler, but from a guy who is purportedly the " best there is, the best there was and the best there ever will be", that's not good enough.

And while it's true that Trips had a more limited moveset, why does that factor negatively into the equation when judging him? Dean Malenko knew 1,000 holds, remember? But was he a better wrestler than Eddie Guerrero, Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit or Stone Cold?

Chris Jericho knew 1004 holds. Jericho > Malenko

 

[shiznit]

I think a measure of how good Hart was is how many great matches he had with so many different guys... He could work with anyone... Even shit wrestlers and come up with the goods.

But when he stepped in with great workers like HBK... It was magic.

Bret v Bulldog at Wembley for the IC
Bret v Henning for IC
Bret v HBK the first 2 times
Bret v SCSA

Hell I even remember him being made to feud with some f**king random masked dude called the Patriot... He had a title match on a PPV with this dude and they had a hell of a match... That Patriot dude was a jobber... And it was pretty much an insult to have the champ feuding with the guy... But Bret went out and pulled it off...

The other thing was that he took his fellow wrestlers health very serious... And he always looked after his opponent in the ring...

He also gave it to his brother Owen for going along with taunting Steve Austin for breaking his neck... He followed up with Austin personally and Austin always appreciated that...

 

[Hoggmaster]

Damn PP beat me to it.

Either way, I rank Bret Hart as top 5 in ring. It wasn't his moveset (which I think is a pretty modern thing to rank people on) but his psychology in the ring. He could read a crowd excellently, and for my mind was a better seller than HBK.

This was back in the era of making wrestling look real and HBK's selling, whilst spectacular to watch, was at times very unbelievable. Hart however always sold just enough and everything he did looked real. Go watch Hart Austin at WM13, the match looks and feels real. Obviously it takes 2 to tango, and Austin's a great dance partner, but Hart held up the division during its lowest point of talent and still managed to get good matches out of people who shouldnt even be in the ring with him.

Sure Hart's mic work wasn't great but it wasn't as bad as people make out. He managed to do some good promo's in the late 90's and his intensity during those DX verbal battles was great.

I'd rank Flair or Savage as my overall number 1 based on all aspects, with Hart being definite top 5.

 

[canberra_raiders2k2]

Anyone remember the Hart v Hart feud. That was crazy good. I remember being a kid and renting out the vhs copies of that period and trying to arrange them in order lol...so hard without the Internet

 

[Tommy Smith]

I think a measure of how good Hart was is how many great matches he had with so many different guys... He could work with anyone... Even shit wrestlers and come up with the goods.

But when he stepped in with great workers like HBK... It was magic.

Bret v Bulldog at Wembley for the IC
Bret v Henning for IC
Bret v HBK the first 2 times
Bret v SCSA

Hell I even remember him being made to feud with some f**king random masked dude called the Patriot... He had a title match on a PPV with this dude and they had a hell of a match... That Patriot dude was a jobber... And it was pretty much an insult to have the champ feuding with the guy... But Bret went out and pulled it off...

The other thing was that he took his fellow wrestlers health very serious... And he always looked after his opponent in the ring...

He also gave it to his brother Owen for going along with taunting Steve Austin for breaking his neck... He followed up with Austin personally and Austin always appreciated that...

Bret Hart, like Kurt Angle, could have wrestled a mannaquin and made it interesting. He's hands down the best in ring storyteller I've ever seen.

He was certainly the best seller, where as Michaels - who I'm a huge fan of too - would overdo it sometimes. Case in point, compare the way they sold being thrown into a ringpost.

And yes, some of his promos during the Team Canada days were second to none. Certainly underappreciated in that aspect.

When all is said and done, he's one of the all-time great tag team, intercontinental and WWF/E Champions of all-time. Each to their own but I can't see how he's overrated.

 

[Big Pete]

Because he isn't the total package, and if you compare his ring work to Flair, Taue, Misawa, Kawada etc he pales by comparison.

A lot of people are primarily familiar with Flairs work in the 90s, when he was past his prime. However, his status as NWA Champion afforded him an opportunity to work all around the world and display his amazing versatility where he was able to work a different style that catered towards that territory.

On the other hand, Bret rarely got that opportunity and had to work the WWF style which was very repetitious. To Bret's credit, he actively tried to change things up which you can see in his matches against Perfect (I'm more of a 93 > 91 type of guy but each to his own), Austin & Diesel. 3 different performances, but unfortunately not enough to compare to a guy like Flair.

On the microphone, it's a no-contest. As much as I like Bret's 97 work, Naitch is an all-time legend and can still cut a killer promo to this day.

The best there is, the best there was, the best there ever will be?

Nope, nadda, not a chance.

Better than Triple H, Shawn Michaels and Kurt Angle?

Yes, easily, all day every day.

 

[Valheru]

I think a measure of how good Hart was is how many great matches he had with so many different guys... He could work with anyone... Even shit wrestlers and come up with the goods.

But when he stepped in with great workers like HBK... It was magic.

Bret v Bulldog at Wembley for the IC
Bret v Henning for IC
Bret v HBK the first 2 times
Bret v SCSA

Hell I even remember him being made to feud with some f**king random masked dude called the Patriot... He had a title match on a PPV with this dude and they had a hell of a match... That Patriot dude was a jobber... And it was pretty much an insult to have the champ feuding with the guy... But Bret went out and pulled it off...

The other thing was that he took his fellow wrestlers health very serious... And he always looked after his opponent in the ring...

He also gave it to his brother Owen for going along with taunting Steve Austin for breaking his neck... He followed up with Austin personally and Austin always appreciated that...

The patriot was hardly a jobber and he could work. He was massive in japan prior to 97 and rated in the top 100 by PWI in 91. The title match you refer to wasbt even the best on the night as hbk/taker put on a classic albeit with a dodgu ending but that led to hell in a cell and we all know what happened there.

I don't want people to believe that i don't rate hart as a great wrestler, just not top 10.

 

[Parra Pride]

Bret doesn't elbow drop his jacket enough to compete with Flair.

Everyone knows Eddie Guerrero was the best ever anyway, so I don't know how this conversation has dragged so long.

 

[Eelementary]

Bret doesn't elbow drop his jacket enough to compete with Flair.

Everyone knows Eddie Guerrero was the best ever anyway, so I don't know how this conversation has dragged so long.

I'm not sure if you're being facetious, but in case you're not - I agree.

Eddie could talk, fly, chain wrestle...

A true all round great.

 

[Parra Pride]

I'm not, Eddie is my favourite ever. Such a shame he went out too early.

 

[Eelementary]

I'm not, Eddie is my favourite ever. Such a shame he went out too early.

I agree, mate - it was so sad to hear he passed away.

A true legend.

 

[canberra_raiders2k2]

Eddie v Hart would have been epic.

Eddie was such a talent too bad he was held down for years. The bloke had to get on the juice to be recognised. What a waste. He could have done everything.

Flair omg had zero ring work. One second chopping away them strutting then some random elbow drop. He was a manufactured champion. Show me a great flair match and I'll show you 10 from eddie or Hart. I even rate Christian higher than Flair.

Ok in fairness when he was captian charisma it was such a good role and he could wrestle too

 

[lafai]

I reckon Bret, Eddie & Ric are in that second tier behind Austin, Rock & Hogan. Then there's so many other greats like HHH, HBK, Taker, Macho Man & Sting. Heck even Cena.

 

[Big Pete]

Eddie v Hart would have been epic.

Eddie was such a talent too bad he was held down for years. The bloke had to get on the juice to be recognised. What a waste. He could have done everything.

Flair omg had zero ring work. One second chopping away them strutting then some random elbow drop. He was a manufactured champion. Show me a great flair match and I'll show you 10 from eddie or Hart. I even rate Christian higher than Flair.

Ok in fairness when he was captian charisma it was such a good role and he could wrestle too

Then you should watch Flair when he was working in his prime, not in '99 which is the period you're describing (even then it doesn't fit).

If you want to see what Flair was capable of...

Ric Flair vs Jumbo Tsutura - AJPW 81
Ric Flair vs Kerry Von Erich - WCCW 1982
Ric Flair vs Harley Race - NWA 83
Ric Flair vs Rick Martel - AJPW 85
Ric Flair vs Ricky Morton - NWA 86
Ric Flair vs Barry Windham - '87
Ric Flair vs Ron Garvin - Starrcade 87
Ricky Steamboat vs Ric Flair - Chi Town Rumble 89
Terry Funk vs Ric Flair - Clash of the Champions 89
Ric Flair vs Vader - Starrcade 93

Good luck coming up with a 100 better Eddie or Bret matches.

 

[canberra_raiders2k2]

I knew someone would do that.

My counter argument is every bloody match by Eddie and Hart lol.

I didn't begin watching wrestling in 99. How could you come up with such a random date? I made mention of Hart v Hart which happened in approx 1993 -1994, at least say something prior to that date.

Flair hasn't been entertaining for 25 years in the ring