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Doyle looking for answers

MKEB...

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
5,982
I heard something on Hauraki today saying Cappy MacGoo will no by the end of the week whether he is coach or not. I initially thought I misheard it, but I am not so sure now.
 

ozenzud

Juniors
Messages
662
Completely disagree that McFadden should go. Didn't always agree with his team selections, but understood them. The players themselves are backing McFadden all the way and it is not like other coaches who lost the dressing room. The players accept and have publicly said, they lost the games, not Cappy.

McFadden's assessments of results is always good and accurate. He doesn't make excuses. The NZ Herald article is pretty good. Cappy accepts his fate as well.

Cutting him and bringing someone else in means they have to start again. I'm definitely in the one more year camp. If it fails again, then absolutely. But I sensed at times we were on the cusp of cracking it. There was a better resolve in defense. There were semblances of attacking structure and systems.

I'm fine with the treatment of Tui. Tui is not a half and never will be. He is prone to shockers and wing with his pace is probably his best position.

Next year, assuming they arn't injured and we have a Johnson, Foran, Luke and RTS spine fit for the year, if you can't win with the Kiwis spine, you aint ever gunna.
 

jaseg

Juniors
Messages
2,274
Cutting him and bringing someone else in means they have to start again. I'm definitely in the one more year camp. If it fails again, then absolutely. But I sensed at times we were on the cusp of cracking it. There was a better resolve in defense. There were semblances of attacking structure and systems.

Trent Robinson and the Roosters + Paul Green and the Cowboys say hello.

Cappy has had already had 2 years and 19 games to get it right. That is enough time to judge him. He still doesn't even know his best team... I mean come on, he used 34 different players this year. The only time a team has done that and been successful is when the Broncos had like 80% of the QLD Origin team and had to play entirely new squads for 1-3 games a season, artificially bumping their numbers up. Hell - there's only 1 team that has used more (or even the same number of) players in a year over the past few seasons, and that's Newcastle this year... fine company to be in.
 

ozenzud

Juniors
Messages
662
Trent Robinson and the Roosters + Paul Green and the Cowboys say hello.

Cappy has had already had 2 years and 19 games to get it right. That is enough time to judge him. He still doesn't even know his best team... I mean come on, he used 34 different players this year. The only time a team has done that and been successful is when the Broncos had like 80% of the QLD Origin team and had to play entirely new squads for 1-3 games a season, artificially bumping their numbers up. Hell - there's only 1 team that has used more (or even the same number of) players in a year over the past few seasons, and that's Newcastle this year... fine company to be in.

Are you trying to compare the squads that both the Roosters and Cowboys had when Robinson and Green took over? Comparing the Warriors current squad to them, you are seriously deluded. They are not in the same league.

It is such a NZ way to sack the coach. (UK Premier League is similar). A full and comprehensive review of the season, look at each game, why was it lost, was it the coaches fault, was it a ref decision, was it a player mistake. What did we learn, how did you fix it? The warriors had 5 GP games in a season!

Cappy axed players for non performance. What is he supposed to do, say your playing crap and you have got discipline issues but I don't want to be criticised for using too many players so I'll pick you again this week? Mate your injured, so you play again even though you can't give your best? Seriously, the crap some people talk.

Popular opinion in NZ was that Graham Henry should have been sacked after the 2007 world cup fiasco. In hindsight, the NZRU braved public opinion and kept him on. At the end of the day, that was a astute decision. Expecting results with such a young warriors side lacking a bit of depth is expecting too much.
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
31,801
You're not comparing apples with apples

It's not the NZ way to sack coaches, unless they are demonstrably not up to it.

While I still believe Henry should have been sacked, the All Blacks were dominant except at the World Cup on his watch, so he had a proven record with them (along with his provincial record) and of course the likely replacement (Deans) had a stellar record and went on to achieve more results wise with the Wallabies than any of subsequent Australians that have coached them.

McFadden has never achieved ay success, can't work out his best team, doesn't have a sane game plan, and has made no obvious progress with anything or anyone other than Kata - if you see sense in his selections, please do enlighten us
 
Messages
16,646
Are you trying to compare the squads that both the Roosters and Cowboys had when Robinson and Green took over? Comparing the Warriors current squad to them, you are seriously deluded. They are not in the same league.

It is such a NZ way to sack the coach. (UK Premier League is similar). A full and comprehensive review of the season, look at each game, why was it lost, was it the coaches fault, was it a ref decision, was it a player mistake. What did we learn, how did you fix it? The warriors had 5 GP games in a season!

Cappy axed players for non performance. What is he supposed to do, say your playing crap and you have got discipline issues but I don't want to be criticised for using too many players so I'll pick you again this week? Mate your injured, so you play again even though you can't give your best? Seriously, the crap some people talk.

Popular opinion in NZ was that Graham Henry should have been sacked after the 2007 world cup fiasco. In hindsight, the NZRU braved public opinion and kept him on. At the end of the day, that was a astute decision. Expecting results with such a young warriors side lacking a bit of depth is expecting too much.

Cappy has had his chance.
He dropped guys then reinstated next week, dropping guys and shuffling back line. Had no idea what to do with the bench.
When the Stilnox and Red bull boys sat out the week, they where back the next week, changing a winning team.

We had the 2nd worst defense in the competition! Only Newcastle produced worse.

He could not get the best out of Matulino and a host of players who seem to be going no where to backwards.

5 golden points proves we could not ice a game.

If it was the end of year 1 different story, but this is basically year 3.

At on stage I would of taken only a proven coach, now, well a semi proven/successful assistant coach will be.

Yes we will know what we get with Cappy in 2017 which is missing the top 8.
 

jaseg

Juniors
Messages
2,274
Are you trying to compare the squads that both the Roosters and Cowboys had when Robinson and Green took over? Comparing the Warriors current squad to them, you are seriously deluded. They are not in the same league.

It is such a NZ way to sack the coach. (UK Premier League is similar). A full and comprehensive review of the season, look at each game, why was it lost, was it the coaches fault, was it a ref decision, was it a player mistake. What did we learn, how did you fix it? The warriors had 5 GP games in a season!

Cappy axed players for non performance. What is he supposed to do, say your playing crap and you have got discipline issues but I don't want to be criticised for using too many players so I'll pick you again this week? Mate your injured, so you play again even though you can't give your best? Seriously, the crap some people talk.

Popular opinion in NZ was that Graham Henry should have been sacked after the 2007 world cup fiasco. In hindsight, the NZRU braved public opinion and kept him on. At the end of the day, that was a astute decision. Expecting results with such a young warriors side lacking a bit of depth is expecting too much.

You missed the point. I'm not saying our roster is just like the Roosters/Cowboys at the time - I'm pointing out that the change of coach did not hurt those teams in the short term. Since you bring up the Premier League, neither has coach changes hurt the most excessive team in that respect - Chelsea. They won the Champions League same year they replaced the manager mid-season, and they've kept winning titles as often as anyone over the past 12 years despite all those managerial swaps.

I'd rather change something that isn't working (almost 3 full seasons....) than hold and pray that doing the same thing will work out differently this time around. The ABs have a natural roster advantage over every team they play - hardly the same situation, to throw your Cows/Roosters comments back at you.

Cappy axed players when they played well too (more often than he axed them after bad performances). And he let guys who were playing ineffective (sometimes straight up awful - looking at you, Lisone of the last 2 months-ish) footy keep going in first grade.

Young Warriors side? Not particularly. Ayshford, Johnson, Luke, Lillyman, Mannering, Matulino, Thompson, Vatuvei, Wright, RTS and Leuluai are all experienced players (and like half of those guys are around or over 200 games). This isn't the same team we had a few years ago after the 2011 roster was gutted. And everybody lacks depth due to the cap structure.
 

spear tackle

Juniors
Messages
1,176
If he has brought into the club maybe the answer is and always has been -To sell as many different Warriors Jersey designs as possible ,that's where the real money is.
His predecessor thought so.
 

Rich102

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
11,557
Eric Watson admits the Warriors are a fragile team - and nothing will get better until that changes.

The Warriors' owner also believes the organisation as a whole has suffered from an underlying fragility.

Watson, in New Zealand for a brief visit to coincide with the club's end of season function and a board meeting, pulled no punches with a frank assessment yesterday.

"There is fragility there and it manifests itself under pressure," said Watson.

"Think about golf. You can be a good golfer, with a five or six handicap and suddenly you are at a pro-am playing with Michael Campbell or Tiger Woods. You fall apart because you are under pressure - there are people watching you, there is expectation. "

"We have that in our organization and it comes out at times when we are expected to win," added Watson. "We only had to win a couple of home games (against the Tigers and Eels) to make the eight basically and we couldn't do it. It looked terrible."

Watson referenced tangible improvements in many areas this season, on and off the field, but said questions still remained when the going got tough, evidenced by the team's fluctuating fortunes in 2016.

"It is something that is embedded in our culture psychologically - and it is not a one person fix," said Watson. "It's a group thing and we haven't nailed it. But we have to get rid of it. We have to have consistent performance."

There were hints of a turn around this season, especially during their nine game run in the middle of the season when the Warriors recorded six wins and three golden point losses. There was a harder edge to their play, and an apparent ability, for a few weeks at least, to produce a similar level of performance. But it didn't last and that, more than anything, prompted the need for change in the coaching structure.

According to Watson, those conversations had started at board level earlier this year, as the team got the wobbles in the opening third of the season when they won three of their opening eight games and suffered embarrassing losses to the Tigers, Sea Eagles and Storm.

"During the year we looked at a few scenarios," explained Watson.

"We could be top four or six, make the eight or miss the eight. One of those scenarios was that we may need to change the coach. So throughout the season, you are looking at who's available, who's off contract, who might be the best fit culturally for where we are going. We created a list and Kearney was at the top of that list."

Watson admitted that there had been dialogue with Kearney - and some other contenders - during the year.

"We have been in discussions with him and other people, throughout the season, very, very confidentially," said Watson.

Watson said the decision evolved quickly as the Warriors staggered and stumbled in the final third of the season.

"Even if we had limped into the eight, it would have been the same decision," said Watson. "[For Andrew] it wasn't like if you don't make the eight you haven't got a job. It was `what is the best thing for this organization? You could see several weeks out, if we made it, we were just going to make it. It wasn't good enough. We simply capitulated too many times this season."

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11709834
 
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