Expansion plans cloudy: NRL

[Miller was a legend]

On paper, no improvement at all aside from ellis. I am always suspicious of the poms aside from Gary schofield.

Sheens has apparently dumped the flamboyant stuff which is a relief. I think every team is a show, it is a good competition in that regard.

I am ready for the footy too, I must say. I really rate Barrett - it is a big worry Interesting to see how he has aged I guess

Cheers STC. I hope the Tigers do will this year. One the likeable teams

 

[SaveTheChildren]

Cheers STC. I hope the Tigers do will this year. One the likeable teams

lol. Yeah. I will become progressiviely cranky during the year I am sure! I'd wish you luck, but you know how I feel about Cronulla

 

[Miller was a legend]

lol. Yeah. I will become progressiviely cranky during the year I am sure! I'd wish you luck, but you know how I feel about Cronulla

:lol: all good.

 

[sbrpete]

I also agree with you Perth Red and Loud. TBH I see what the NRL, Sharks and Souths doing, as building a stepping stone to the possible intoduction of stand alone teams. For the Sharks, I guess its a fall back position where Adelaide could in time become home (Sharks fans don't abuse me for saying that) but branding as Southern Sharks can made a dual location achievable. In Souths case I think it could be seen as a stepping stone to the Reds making a stand alone club in Perth. I don't think Souths would ever make Perth home by changing it's branding (South Sydney in Perth probably wouldn't get the same acceptance as say the Southern Sharks).

Just an opinion.

As a Sharks fan, I can readily accept my team being the Southern Sharks and calling Afelaide home as much as the Shire. If that is good for RLin general, lets do it.

As an avid Adelaide League fan,any move by a single NRL club to SA will die a rapid death.
The only way League will succeed here is a composite side. The Dragons are the most popular side here in SA. With this in mind, any club with the name Sharks in it trying to find a home here,will be commiting suicide.

The last game played here was Panthers v Storm that attracted about 6000 if that. I went, just to show support to League BUT I wore my Dragons colours with pride.

There IS room for expansion and Adelaide AND Perth must be included in this vision for the future of the code I think. Sh*t,even baseball has a national comp. and they dont have the word National in their name.

Adelaide oval is NOT the ideal home ground for a League side thus I feel this reflected in the Rams crowds after season 1 was dusted. Hindmarsh Stadium is the ideal home for an Adelaide side.

I just hope it happens while im young enough to take my son!;-)

 

[MsStorm]

As an avid Adelaide League fan,any move by a single NRL club to SA will die a rapid death.
The only way League will succeed here is a composite side. The Dragons are the most popular side here in SA. With this in mind, any club with the name Sharks in it trying to find a home here,will be commiting suicide.

The last game played here was Panthers v Storm that attracted about 6000 if that. I went, just to show support to League BUT I wore my Dragons colours with pride.

There IS room for expansion and Adelaide AND Perth must be included in this vision for the future of the code I think. Sh*t,even baseball has a national comp. and they dont have the word National in their name.

Adelaide oval is NOT the ideal home ground for a League side thus I feel this reflected in the Rams crowds after season 1 was dusted. Hindmarsh Stadium is the ideal home for an Adelaide side.

I just hope it happens while im young enough to take my son!;-)

I think its vital that Perth and Adelaide be included in the NRL competion.
The Nrl should not worry about crowd nos. initially, but should stick fat as the afl did with the Swans in Sydney. Just having a presence in most capital cities indicates to other codes we aren't afraid to enter a foreign market.

You are right about Hindmarsh stadium as being the ideal ground for an Adelaide side.

At this stage I am glad the nrl sides are playing games in Adelaide and Perth and hopefully soon we can include them into the comp...the sooner the better.

 

[Loudstrat]

So thgose 60 000 other posts from your about membership drives and getting more people to Sydney games was a smokescreen?

Sydney clubs must increase crowds or die - but Perth and Adelaide can roll along with a Group 9 size crowd and that's OK?

 

[MsStorm]

So thgose 60 000 other posts from your about membership drives and getting more people to Sydney games was a smokescreen?

Sydney clubs must increase crowds or die - but Perth and Adelaide can roll along with a Group 9 size crowd and that's OK?

No.. You twist things around Loudy.
I want Sydney clubs to increase their memberships in order to survive, but I would also love to see Adelaide and Perth to be included in the comp.

With new franchises in afl territory, they aren't suddenly going to attract a huge audience...but they will attract extra dollars into the nrl coffers - tv rights, extra sponsorships etc. and just as importantly, new followers of the game.

 

[parramaniac2516]

I thought the general idea of expansion in business terms was to generally expand on what you have. Killing off two or three Sydney teams and putting a perth or adelaide team in is not really expanding its just replacing one team with another. Sure its increasing the geographical location but not the actual size of the business.

To sit there and say fans will not be lost to the game is ridiculous if Sydney clubs die. I for one have been a lifetime Parramatta supporter and if my team were to fold the NRL would not get any money from me ever again. Yes i would still watch some games on tv as i do have a love for the game. I would not swap teams though and would not be paying for memberships, tickets or merchandise. Im sure that a lot of people will feel a similar way and its the nrl that will not be getting the money.

If we are to expand it should not be at the expense of any Sydney teams it has been tried before and it has not worked and wont work again.

 

[Bluebags1908]

I thought the general idea of expansion in business terms was to generally expand on what you have. Killing off two or three Sydney teams and putting a perth or adelaide team in is not really expanding its just replacing one team with another. Sure its increasing the geographical location but not the actual size of the business.

To sit there and say fans will not be lost to the game is ridiculous if Sydney clubs die. I for one have been a lifetime Parramatta supporter and if my team were to fold the NRL would not get any money from me ever again. Yes i would still watch some games on tv as i do have a love for the game. I would not swap teams though and would not be paying for memberships, tickets or merchandise. Im sure that a lot of people will feel a similar way and its the nrl that will not be getting the money.

If we are to expand it should not be at the expense of any Sydney teams it has been tried before and it has not worked and wont work again.

Totally agree 100%. Haven't we learnt anything from kicking out Souths? And that was just one team. If you kicked out 3 teams expect the damage caused with Souths' exclusion x 3.

Sydney is unique in that it's geography and layout makes it several mini-cities within a city on a social level. People from Penrith will hardly ever go to Manly, People from Manly would hardly ever go to Parramatta, and Cronulla people hardly ever go to Balmain territory. Each area needs to be serviced by their own team.

Where have all the Norths fans gone? They are certainly not at Manly games at Brookvale. Manly's attendances have not doubled with the exclusion of the Bears. The same will happen with other teams if excluded.

I think it's about time so called Rugby League 'fans' from outside Sydney show Sydney a little bit more respect. There are teams in Sydney with iconic brand names that are very valuable to the game.

 

[macavity]

I think it's about time so called Rugby League 'fans' from outside Sydney show Sydney a little bit more respect. There are teams in Sydney with iconic brand names that are very valuable to the game.

its also about time so called Rugby League "fans" from inside Sydney supported their clubs to the extent that we are no longer having these conversations. Believe it or not the vast majority of non-Sydney fans do not want to see teams keel over - we are just frustrated by the words not being backed up.

 

[parramaniac2516]

The set-up at Parramatta is completly stuffed up and hopefully after this years Leagues club election will be fixed up.

I mean the NRL team is under control by the leagues club the other teams are under control by the football club. Most Parramatta supporters i know dont even know how to apply to become a member of the football club and we cant vote until we have been a member for several years.

 

[LeagueXIII]

its also about time so called Rugby League "fans" from inside Sydney supported their clubs to the extent that we are no longer having these conversations. Believe it or not the vast majority of non-Sydney fans do not want to see teams keel over - we are just frustrated by the words not being backed up.

You should have a look at other cities such as Melbourne, Canberra, Auckland, Gosford, Wollongong. Sydney's crowds are higher than these cities. There is a belief that all clubs outside Sydney average 20,000 plus, this is not the case.

Rather than saying a club is struggling so they should be moved/punted, how about we build them up with good management and sound planning. Afterall it will be good for the game in the long run.

Build Sydney and the riches will follow.

 

[sbrpete]

So thgose 60 000 other posts from your about membership drives and getting more people to Sydney games was a smokescreen?

Sydney clubs must increase crowds or die - but Perth and Adelaide can roll along with a Group 9 size crowd and that's OK?

Seems to me that Sydney Clubs 'are' dying a slow death and have been for the last 10 years.
We all want our football teams to survive but one day.....just one day,someone is going to wake up and say....sh*t,we have to many teams in the one city for the amount of supporters we are attracting.

By the way,I didnt realise group 9 attracted crowds of over 7000. This would probably be more if Group 9 was able to attract opposition supporters to its home game as well, if distance wasnt an issue.

Anyway,thats enough of the old League Co-op crap from days gone by.....i just want to see the sport prosper.

 

[MsStorm]

its also about time so called Rugby League "fans" from inside Sydney supported their clubs to the extent that we are no longer having these conversations. Believe it or not the vast majority of non-Sydney fans do not want to see teams keel over - we are just frustrated by the words not being backed up.

So very true Macavity!

 

[Ray Mosters]

So thgose 60 000 other posts from your about membership drives and getting more people to Sydney games was a smokescreen?

Sydney clubs must increase crowds or die - but Perth and Adelaide can roll along with a Group 9 size crowd and that's OK?

Your exagerating, but yes, expansion teams must be judged on different criteria to existing sides in a flooded market place.

While im certainly not in favour of cutting any side in the forseeable future, im certainly not in favour of propping up ailing Sydney sides forever either. If things go badly year after year then eventually you have to say, enough is enough, there IS a cutoff point. Although i think that is a LOOOONG way off for any club right now and with fair management not for ANY club. Its of course preferable to keep every club (and indeed, even bring back the bears), and thats doable IMO.

Of course, if you bring in a expansion side, then it too has a cutoff point, but its ALOT further down the line. Things have to be twice as bad and for twice as long before you drop the Reds after they come in again.

And its unfortunate, but its because the future of the game depends upon succesful expansion of the game to new markets, and hence is more important than retaining every single current Sydney club in its current form.

IMO, judging by the success of the Force and the fact that RL is traditionally more popular in Perth than Union, i think the Reds could be a winner in Perth in only a few years.

You have to understand, the reason Perth and Adelaide people love their sporting teams so much is because there is little else to do.... its not like Sydney where there is other things to get up to. Football, Union, Basketball, Soccer, it makes no sense that they dont have League sides to watch when the Crows are going badly.

I personally think the new sides should be Perth and Adelaide and post haste.

 

[bobmar28]

Totally agree 100%. Haven't we learnt anything from kicking out Souths? And that was just one team. If you kicked out 3 teams expect the damage caused with Souths' exclusion x 3.

Sydney is unique in that it's geography and layout makes it several mini-cities within a city on a social level. People from Penrith will hardly ever go to Manly, People from Manly would hardly ever go to Parramatta, and Cronulla people hardly ever go to Balmain territory. Each area needs to be serviced by their own team.

Where have all the Norths fans gone? They are certainly not at Manly games at Brookvale. Manly's attendances have not doubled with the exclusion of the Bears. The same will happen with other teams if excluded.

I think it's about time so called Rugby League 'fans' from outside Sydney show Sydney a little bit more respect. There are teams in Sydney with iconic brand names that are very valuable to the game.

Each area needs to be serviced by their own team? Liverpool has no team so I follow someone elses.

How about Blacktown? They have no team. Maybe that's why the AFL is moving into the area. A merger of Eels and Panthers would give them a team and end that nonsense.

 

[Bluebags1908]

Each area needs to be serviced by their own team? Liverpool has no team so I follow someone elses.

How about Blacktown? They have no team. Maybe that's why the AFL is moving into the area. A merger of Eels and Panthers would give them a team and end that nonsense.

Liverpool = Wests Tigers (they play in Magpies junior league)

Blacktown = (they play in Penrith junior league).

 

[Bluebags1908]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobmar28
There have been 2 mergers since 1999 yet there are MORE league fans (and juniors) today than there ever were.

That's BS... all you have to do is look at the crowd figures for the qualifying finals series in 1994 versus 2008...

P.S. and don't bother telling me that most of the 2008 series was played at smaller grounds, as none of the crowds reached the capacity of those stadiums.

RL Qualifying Finals Series Crowds 1994
Bears v Raiders (SFS) - 33,641
Sea Eagles v Broncos (SFS) - 34,891
Bears v Broncos (SFS) - 36,011
Bulldogs v Raiders (SFS) - 41,941

RL Qualifying Finals Series Crowds 2008
Roosters v Broncos (SFS) - 18,343
Sharks v Raiders (Toyota Stadium) - 18,252
Sea Eagles v Dragons (Brookvale Oval) - 19,227
Storm v Warriors (Olympic Park) - 15,193



You can't compare the crowd averages for finals in 1994 vs 2008 because 1994 involved a 5 team format with less games and more cut-throat games amongst higher ranked teams vs 2008 with more games feturing 2nd chances and involvement of 6th, 7th, and 8th placed teams which in theory are less attractive to watch than the top 5 teams.

 

[Bluebags1908]

You should have a look at other cities such as Melbourne, Canberra, Auckland, Gosford, Wollongong. Sydney's crowds are higher than these cities. There is a belief that all clubs outside Sydney average 20,000 plus, this is not the case.

Rather than saying a club is struggling so they should be moved/punted, how about we build them up with good management and sound planning. Afterall it will be good for the game in the long run.

Build Sydney and the riches will follow.

Spot on.

 

[MsStorm]

You should have a look at other cities such as Melbourne, Canberra, Auckland, Gosford, Wollongong. Sydney's crowds are higher than these cities. There is a belief that all clubs outside Sydney average 20,000 plus, this is not the case.

Rather than saying a club is struggling so they should be moved/punted, how about we build them up with good management and sound planning. Afterall it will be good for the game in the long run.

Build Sydney and the riches will follow.

Sydney clubs figures are higher because they attract opposition supporters..which of course is great for the game.

Your other 2 paragraphs are spot on.
Good management and planning is so important ... none of this bickering at board level that is happening now at Manly etc.