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I will not be silent about this

PacificCoastRL

Juniors
Messages
316
Once again gyallop you are siding with this group of fools running the Tomahawks. Spinner is right, this will hurt rugby league in the US. I can see many of the US born and bred players who have been playing with the Tomahawks this summer turning their backs on league. The sport may have to start over just when it seems to be gaining some traction. Unless someone who is prepared to use American players takes over very quickly this could be the beginning of the end for rugby league in the US. I know a change at the top of the Tomahawks leadership can't happen now, but it needs to happen as soon as the World Cup is over, and the new group would need to convince the players that developing American talent will be the main priority.
 
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gyallop

Juniors
Messages
551
How many of these players are in the Queensland Cup, and how many are in local A grade comps? Why would you go out of your way to select substandard ringers who won't contribute anything ahead of locals who would at least benefit from the experience?

Even 3 or 4 blokes from the USARL or AMNRL as part of the squad would have been a boost for the game, and wouldn't have harmed the team's chances at all. As it is, the only legit Americans I can see in there with no ties to Australia are RU players.

Pretty sad and predictable though that you'd find it funny that the AMNRL have once again disgraced the sport and spit in the face of the people who are legitimately working to develop RL in America.

it was a simple question which you didnt answer.

I count at least 5 blokes from local leagues by the way.
 

gyallop

Juniors
Messages
551
Once again gyallop you are siding with this group of fools running the Tomahawks. Spinner is right, this will hurt rugby league in the US. I can see many of the US born and bred players who have been playing with the Tomahawks this summer turning their backs on league. The sport may have to start over just when it seems to be gaining some traction. Unless someone who is prepared to use American players takes over very quickly this could be the beginning of the end for rugby league in the US. I know a change at the top of the Tomahawks leadership can't happen now, but it needs to happen as soon as the World Cup is over, and the new group would need to convince the players that developing American talent will be the main priority.

I side with logic. Maybe this is the shot in the arm needed to boost awareness and get funding if the fools running the game in the USA can stop arguing over who is the big fish in that smallest of ponds!

I am bemused by the comments on the quality of this squad by referencing competition standards they play in when the AMNRL and USARL import players from deadset Z grade park foooty who they hail as stars and who dominate the USA competitions.
 
Messages
517
I side with logic. Maybe this is the shot in the arm needed to boost awareness and get funding if the fools running the game in the USA can stop arguing over who is the big fish in that smallest of ponds!

I am bemused by the comments on the quality of this squad by referencing competition standards they play in when the AMNRL and USARL import players from deadset Z grade park footy who they hail as stars and who dominate the USA competitions.


The import players dont really dominate the USA comp. (Also some imports that have come over do really play at a decent standard back in AUS. Q-Cup, NRL, NSW Cup, CRL). Futhermore if you think about it who is going to come over and play and pay their own way, someone who can make money playing or someone who cant. Doesnt mean they are terrible players and to be honest it doesnt mean they dominate the comp either. Its good for local media buzz etc. They do have a big influence on Ball Movement, team chemistry and overall footy knowledge and things that americans are not aware of that most aussies are exposed to at their local footy training. So Import players are a major part however I would say their influence is felt more off the field on game day, at trainings etc. but to be honest in Defense the American boys tend to deliver 9 out of 10 times. Furthermore, from teams that travel here from AUS/NZ and play local sides or combined sides they all re-iterate that the defense is there, the tackling is there, its just the play the ball speed and the offensive ball movement that hold our sides back. The fact is having an 8 game season over the summer is not going to improve that. Players getting picked to represent the country will allow for the RL to expand. 80% of my players are just league guys now. I actually encouraged them to go out and play union this fall to show off how playing league makes them better players on a rugby pitch. After a slow win less start the local union side is starting all the league guys that came over and now they are winning games. What if one of those guys was playing or named in the world cup, don't you think others would consider giving it a go?

The fact is none of those guys are going to put their bodies on the line in defense the way an American wearing his flag would. Its inspirational and gets you going.

The fact is no company in America is going to care about this team because they are never going to hear about it. People are not going to watch it in the first place, however if Johnny's cousin was playing or Tommy the paper boy was playing you'd bet people would turn in to cover them. You bet local newspapers and news-channels would do stories on them, because it connects the community to the team. But a guy who comes over plays a season and some people who really are not in it for the betterment of the sport but just their own betterment isn't going to do any good.
 
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Duns Simion

Juniors
Messages
5
Seriously, This is the World Cup of Rugby League, not a development tournament for armature nations. It’s more important that the USA have a competitive side and therefore the best possible squad available be selected. Weather the side is full of Qcup and ex NYC players should not matter, every player selected has put their hand up and no doubt eligible to represent the USA.

The standard of rugby league in the USA is improving quickly and every player involved in qualifying for this World Cup should be proud of themselves and the fact is that with the Colonial Cup each year the USA based players get to play more internationals than most other countries around the world

I for one will be stoked to see the Tomahawks take the pitch next month no matter who is in the side.
 
Messages
517
I can't believe that anyone could think it was going to be any different than this. Seriously, hasn't recent history taught anybody anything about these idiots running the Tomahawks. I agree that Niu is likely not involved at all, but his ties to Australia are still part and parcel of the Tomahawks program. Some of his cronies are still there remember. And I wouldn't be surprised, if one were to dig deeply, that most of the players have some connection to Niu. Even the Paulos - Niu selected Matt Elliot as coach previously, Elliot selected (or enticed the Paulos), so they are been repaid with a World Cup appearance. I'll bet a scenario similar to that can be found for nearly every player on the team. Get ready Spinner, you'll need to be in damage control mode for the next few years.

No not shocked at all. The only thing I am honestly shocked about is the fact Curtis Cunz wasnt named in the Squad. He is the most capped player for the USA.

It is now a reality and that fact makes you scratch your head and say come on now. This was expected but the fact that it happened does not make it any less of disgrace.
 
Messages
517
I wasn't planning on posting this but after seeing a few people post their thoughts on this I thought why not. I have had some time to think as I have been off my feet for the past 5 days after getting my knee repaired. Anyway here is my Tirade.......

TEAM ‘USA’ AKA ‘THE TOMAHAWKS’

The manner in which the RLIF has permitted the Tomahawks to be run and organized is an absolute disgrace to the game of rugby league, to the United States and to the RLIF and associated top nations governing bodies.

The Tomahawks have showed signs of instability two years ago when the USARL and the AMNRL were split and David Niu made the announcement that he would punish those who crossed him and reward those who were loyal to him. Ignoring those statements made by David Niu is condoning those statements. These statements and the actions of the the AMNRL and the Tomahawks is befitting that of a street thug running around fighting and warring over street territory. That behavior is not becoming of an organization that is supposed to grow our game and be a positive influence amongst the community and attract sponsors. That behavior does the opposite and repels people toward our game.

More Signs of Trouble
The 2011 Atlantic Zone Qualifying Cup. All reports from South Africa and Jamaica were that the Cup held in Philadelphia was organized no better than children organizing a pickup game of bush footy. Visiting teams lacked proper warm-up training facilities as well as proper assistance for travel and accommodation. Not securing a proper training ground for teams that traveled halfway around the world to play in a world cup qualifying tournament is embarrassing. Teams were told that they probably could get access to a primary school baseball field to warm up at for training prior to a game. Its ridiculous that a High School Football field could not even be reserved for these teams to train on. (Furthermore in no way am I suggesting that visiting teams travel and hotels should have been paid for, I am just suggesting that discounts and deals should have been worked out a year in advance as opposed to the last minute).
The field itself was a minor league baseball stadium that allowed for a 2 meter try zone before players would smash into a lightly padded wall. Again a college football field or even a fancy High School Football Stadium would have been a better ground than this, especially because baseball fields are not meant to take the wear and tear a rugby league team dishes out. This was evident by the massive divots and missing patches at the end of the first game, never mind the sorry state it was in for the final game.

IF STILL YOUR CONFIDENCE WAS NOT DESTROYED
If you still maintained confidence in the AMNRL the USA Tomahawks and David Niu despite the aforementioned incidents the Sale of the USA Tomahawks to William Tatham even if not true and the controversy surrounding that terrible deal should have set a fire to the organizing bodies. Backroom shady deals are meant for wall street not a national team that is in the biggest potential growth market for the game of rugby league. There is not much that needs to be pointed out as I feel its way too obvious, but the fact is that the governing body still allowed Mr. Niu and the AMNRL to move forward is ridiculous. The fact that team owners involved in the game or persons involved in youth development were not sought out for their opinion on the state of the game is sad. Information gathering via email and phone call on the state of the game in the biggest potential market for growth is not a bad thing nor time consuming.

Colonial Cup Games 2013
The Fact that the USA Tomahawks could not even find a field nor arrange proper accommodations for Canada is ridiculous, surely the AMNRL, David Niu and the USA Tomahawks would have their ducks inline a few months before they travel to play in the 2013 World Cup. The fact that the USA Team has no sponsors is another alarm bell that action should have been taken back in August.
At least on the world cup stage the USA would not look a joke if the RLIF intervened this past August.

IF THE RUMOR IS TRUE The fact that Brian Smith has backed out of the coaching position surely indicates that the USA team will be a complete joke come the world cup further discrediting the “world” in world cup when refereeing to the Rugby League World Cup which is miles behind that of Rugby Union.

USA Team Selection is an Utter Disgrace; most of these players could not even point out 5 states on a map never mind name 50 of them. They have not earned the team the spot in the qualifying cup nor played any test matches for them.
The fact is the USA will still loose and are not any better of chance of winning with the current team. The current team does more of a disservice to the game even if they win.
How is that possible?
Well in the USARL and AMNRL players at least believe they have a chance to make the USA team and represent their country, that’s why the try so hard and play and give up their time and dedicate themselves to the game. This squad has the exact opposite effect making them wonder why they should bother playing a full fall and spring union season and then go out and play league over the summer instead of enjoy their friends and family.
The PR and Media of a win by the USA team will not be heard on US Soil on any news outlet because none of these players are from the USA.
However if you had 25 guys from the United States going over from 25 different cities towns and states you would have a few hundred newspaper articles about them as well as a few dozen TV news spots dedicated to them. Additionally those communities might tune in to support the guy who delivers them mail, or the nurse that helped them during surgery or the guy who is best friends with their son. They wouldn’t be tuning in to watch rugby league a game they never heard of before and a game in all honesty they equate to rugby union which for the most part a vast majority of Americans don’t understand nor like. So instead of those potential people tuning in, they wont tune in and wont be turned on to the game.
If the USA wins a game it would be great press in Australia, but does Australia need the press about Rugby League more than the USA does? I think not.

To not have even selected the most capped USA domestic player and the player with the most amount of International Caps eligible for the USA Team, the president of a local club and a man who helped the USA get to the world cup is ridiculous. What’s even more ridiculous and shows you how terrible the people that run the AMNRL are, this man Curtis Cunz, took over a team, the CT Wildcats and brought them back from oblivion at the request of the AMNRL and David Niu, due to poor management form the Clubs Former President.
(Note the following is my opinion and I don’t have any actual documents / hard facts to back it up besides plain logic)
The next season the USARL was formed and The AMNRL made it known that if clubs were going to jump ship they would not be eligible for the US team. The people in charge of the AMNRL held the World Cup National Team Selection over the clubs heads that if they were to Join the USARL they would not be eligible for the World Cup Team, however if clubs were to stay, they would make the World Cup Squad.

So basically those that propped up the AMNRL and did their bidding allowing them to maintain control of governing body status, afforded the USA the opportunity to put forth the Tomahawks in the RLWC, have been tossed aside like trash. The Gov. body got all they wanted from players and teams. They tossed them to the side along with their promises for the squad.
Please don’t misinterpret what I am saying, Curtis & Others in their own right have the ability to play on the World Cup Team and should be on the world cup team. I mean for example Curtis is the most capped USA player and has more international cap’s than anyone named (maybe besides Luke Hume playing 7s) as well as many other domestic players that stuck in the AMNRL and represented the Tomahawks, and yes of course players from the USARL are qualified to make the team.
I’m just emphasizing the point that the people who run the AMRNL have no class, no honor and no respect for anyone not even themselves, this is evident in my example on how they treat their own people. If they treat their own people this way, how can you trust them to treat others with any respect or dignity? How can you trust them to be in charge of governing the sport of rugby league in the United States, how can you associate yourself with people like that?

INPUT OF PEOPLE ON THE GROUND
What about the input from people who without your support from even a basic informational sharing perspective, who have succeeded far more than any other organization in history has in the United States.
What about the input from club owners, players and coaches on how best to handle the RLWC birth so it will have maximum impact in battling back rugby union which has a stranglehold on the United States and apparently partners and controls the AMNRL?
What about talking with people who created sustainable development programs in the United States using two different models that grows year in and year out and has been showing the opportunity to grow all across the United States. (JAX Minor Leagues & AYRLA)
My suspicions that some people in the International Federation’s interest is the growth of the game, others it’s the growth of the revenue the game can bring in. Interest in how you can obtain and draw out as much capital from the USA making the world cup and the USA’s ability to attract major sponsors that can help move the team forward. Why not ask those of us in the USA what would help do that on USA Soil? It is quite possible we may know a thing or two and know better than an organization that has been run by a pithy version of Napoleon Bonaparte.

IN CLOSING
Yes I do think its okay to have a few guys like Clint Newton in the Squad maybe up to 1/3rd if there was a proper training camp to evaluate guys side by side. However 2/3rds of the Squad should be American. (NOT A RULE, Just a Guideline). The guys that were looked over were good enough to play for the USA in test matches, good enough to get the team to qualify, but now not good enough to play in the RLWC? If the Tomahawks had people running the organization that were competent they could have secured sponsors and funding and used that funding to hold some camps and tryouts. How good is a scout in Australia’s word about a player being better than an American if he has never been here or seen them play against each other. Just because the comp and the style of play is different doesn’t mean that they player wont rise to the challenge when put in that situation. If a player has talent they will deliver. Speaking of talent, if the Tomahawks were able to secure a sponsor, its possible and most certainly prudent that the sponsor money should have been used to have development camps and even an overseas tour for a month proceeding the world cup. I would rather put up a team of Americans that has chemistry and has been playing together and training together for a significant period of time then a team of ‘superstars’ that was thrown together at the last minute and hasn’t trained/played a game together.

I personally think that when the world cup is over and Canada or Jamaica is looking to have a game against the USA the American players that get selected should point to the World Cup Squad and tell the selectors to have them play. To think something that would be even more embarrassing than this current world cup squad, a Tomahawks forfeit on US soil because players dish out exactly what was dished to them!
 
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Fatwing15

Juniors
Messages
262
I can't believe that anyone could think it was going to be any different than this. Seriously, hasn't recent history taught anybody anything about these idiots running the Tomahawks. I agree that Niu is likely not involved at all, but his ties to Australia are still part and parcel of the Tomahawks program. Some of his cronies are still there remember. And I wouldn't be surprised, if one were to dig deeply, that most of the players have some connection to Niu. Even the Paulos - Niu selected Matt Elliot as coach previously, Elliot selected (or enticed the Paulos), so they are been repaid with a World Cup appearance. I'll bet a scenario similar to that can be found for nearly every player on the team. Get ready Spinner, you'll need to be in damage control mode for the next few years.

I also think Niu was a major contributor to the US government shutdown!! :sarcasm:
 

MattyCLark

Juniors
Messages
36
Well as for me. I'm done with this sh!t. I'm going back to playing social club union. Casey has a meeting with the Coaches at the University of Montana to play football. So the Clark brothers are no more with Rugby league in the USA.

As for this deal. Well I didn't think the Tomahawks would stab us in the back 2wice.
(Nui) fool me once. Shame on you.
(Bk) fool me 2wice. Shame on me.

There is no honor in playing Rugby League for the tomahawks.

Anybody what my Tomahawks kit?
 
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Fatwing15

Juniors
Messages
262
The import players dont really dominate the USA comp. (Also some imports that have come over do really play at a decent standard back in AUS. Q-Cup, NRL, NSW Cup, CRL). Futhermore if you think about it who is going to come over and play and pay their own way, someone who can make money playing or someone who cant. Doesnt mean they are terrible players and to be honest it doesnt mean they dominate the comp either. Its good for local media buzz etc. They do have a big influence on Ball Movement, team chemistry and overall footy knowledge and things that americans are not aware of that most aussies are exposed to at their local footy training. So Import players are a major part however I would say their influence is felt more off the field on game day, at trainings etc. but to be honest in Defense the American boys tend to deliver 9 out of 10 times. Furthermore, from teams that travel here from AUS/NZ and play local sides or combined sides they all re-iterate that the defense is there, the tackling is there, its just the play the ball speed and the offensive ball movement that hold our sides back. The fact is having an 8 game season over the summer is not going to improve that. Players getting picked to represent the country will allow for the RL to expand. 80% of my players are just league guys now. I actually encouraged them to go out and play union this fall to show off how playing league makes them better players on a rugby pitch. After a slow win less start the local union side is starting all the league guys that came over and now they are winning games. What if one of those guys was playing or named in the world cup, don't you think others would consider giving it a go?

The fact is none of those guys are going to put their bodies on the line in defense the way an American wearing his flag would. Its inspirational and gets you going.

The fact is no company in America is going to care about this team because they are never going to hear about it. People are not going to watch it in the first place, however if Johnny's cousin was playing or Tommy the paper boy was playing you'd bet people would turn in to cover them. You bet local newspapers and news-channels would do stories on them, because it connects the community to the team. But a guy who comes over plays a season and some people who really are not in it for the betterment of the sport but just their own betterment isn't going to do any good.

I slightly disagree about imports impact on the field, however the rest of your post is spot on. Especially the portion regarding the selection of domestic players impact on local business interest, public viewership and participation. Rugby league in the US is missing a great opportunity by Not selecting at least a handful of domestic players, and it really is sad. You put a guy akarika Dawn on this team and I bet you get much more interest from former college football players and other crossover athletes.
 
Messages
517
Well as for me. I'm done with this sh!t. I'm going back to playing social club union. Casey has a meeting with the Coaches at the University of Montana to play football. So the Clark brothers are no more with Rugby league in the USA.

At for this deal. Well I didn't think the Tomahawks would stave us in the back 2wice.
(Nui) fool me once. Shame on you.
(Bk) fool me 2wice. Shame on you.

There is no honor in playing Rugby League for the tomahawks.

Anybody what my Tomahawks kit?

If your serious about the Kit I will put it up for a MVP prize for the fall middle school comp!
 
Messages
517
Well as for me. I'm done with this sh!t. I'm going back to playing social club union. Casey has a meeting with the Coaches at the University of Montana to play football. So the Clark brothers are no more with Rugby league in the USA.

At for this deal. Well I didn't think the Tomahawks would stave us in the back 2wice.
(Nui) fool me once. Shame on you.
(Bk) fool me 2wice. Shame on you.

There is no honor in playing Rugby League for the tomahawks.

Anybody what my Tomahawks kit?

Matty lets be real if there were proper slections made Casey would have made it... but like I said I had my knee operated on Friday. Doc said i should be good to go in a few weeks that jersey would have been mine!

(hopefully this makes you laugh! as your words look like they are going to explode all over the screen)
 

marv

Juniors
Messages
1,053
A few years ago I watched Cumbria (my local county) play the USA, they beat them 70-0. The standard of the US players was that far behind the part time pros from England it was ridiculous. sure the likes of McGoldrick and Peterson played a small part in the game but mainly it was a run for the 20 or so American squad guys

I watched some of the players mentioned on this thread like Cunz and they were majorly embarressed, some people may not like it but they have to realise that ANY grade of football in the UK or Australia is far superior than that of the USA and they need to do anything they can to get ahead.

I suppose though in all honesty I dont expect anything different from the usual overly excitable posters on here even back then they were flabbergasted a county from the UK could beat the US by such a margin.

Even the colonial cup games should have rung bells, the speed of the game was excruciatingly slow, i play in "A" team games in the barrow league with a quicker ruck.
 

byrner

Juniors
Messages
667
Really sorry to hear this guys.

Do I think you would have won any games with your local players? No.
Do I think you will win any games with the players selected? Still no.

Even thougj you would have got pumped each game, I think the point is your local players deserved to be there.
 

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