Is this our toughest starting pack ever??

[Carlton]

We are seeing the best of Widdop now he has the much needed halfback. Oddly enough I'm enjoying watching Marshall playing at 5/8th in the absence of Josh Reynolds. For an older player he's playing some classy footy. I was always a fan of Sowie, but as another poster has pointed out he played hot and cold. When on form he was brilliant to watch. For me it was his temperament that let him down on a few occasions. Gaz for me.

I think that there things that Widdop is best at, there are things that Sowie was best at and there are things that Benji was best at. The issue is more about whether the coach is able to utilise their particular skill set and mould it into the team and the game plan without trying to change how they basically play.

Sowie was brilliant in 2010 and I cant believe some have forgotten just how dominant he was. A lot of the credit for this was Bennett recognised his strengths and devised a game plan and roster where those strengths could be used to the maximum. Move forward and see what effect Price had on Soward, he was more worried about how he wanted the players to play without really looking at how to use their unique individual skills.

 

[Saint_JimmyG]

While Sowie is hot and cold, it’s not like Widdop has been particularly consistent in his time here despite his exceptional form this year. It’s not as if Sowie had a top shelf halfback to work with - Hornby was a fantastic leader but not the most skilful 7 going around.

But the point I was making wasn’t skill level, it was that despite the skill level (whatever the opinion on that is) the final results are in Sowards favour. I question whether or not we win those MPs and premierships with Widdop at 5/8, Soward was too important both in general play and in clutch moments.

Regarding your point, there's nothing to suggest that Widdop couldn't replicate Soward's better attributes. As indicated above, he is also a premiership winner with Melbourne.

 

[BennyV]

Regarding your point, there's nothing to suggest that Widdop couldn't replicate Soward's better attributes. As indicated above, he is also a premiership winner with Melbourne.

I agree. But at the moment, he hasnt replicated that.

And while he is a premiership winner there, he didnt have half the influence on that premiership that Soward had on ours.

 

[Drag Queen]

I think that there things that Widdop is best at, there are things that Sowie was best at and there are things that Benji was best at. The issue is more about whether the coach is able to utilise their particular skill set and mould it into the team and the game plan without trying to change how they basically play.

Sowie was brilliant in 2010 and I cant believe some have forgotten just how dominant he was. A lot of the credit for this was Bennett recognised his strengths and devised a game plan and roster where those strengths could be used to the maximum. Move forward and see what effect Price had on Soward, he was more worried about how he wanted the players to play without really looking at how to use their unique individual skills.

Fair call Carlton. I'm just not sure if McGregor is entirely responsible for the way our halves are playing atm. I think they may be working quite a bit on their own tactics. Or perhaps McGregor has just told them to do their thing. On a side note, Soward was definitely phenomenal in 2010.

 

[Saint_JimmyG]

I agree. But at the moment, he hasnt replicated that.

And while he is a premiership winner there, he didnt have half the influence on that premiership that Soward had on ours.

You haven't acknowledged one major difference: Bennett vs McGregor.

 

[BennyV]

You haven't acknowledged one major difference: Bennett vs McGregor.

Oh no doubt Bennett had the most influence on 2010. And with respect to this thread, the same could possibly be said about the forward pack though (before Bennett got to them, Weyman was an underperforming, ill-discipline grub, Scott was an average-at-best centre and Costigan was an error-riddled backrower).

But Soward a key ingredient. Without him, our whole game plan and strategy in 2010 changes and it’s hard to say how successful it is. Hell, Widdop has proven to struggle without a top-shelf halfback, any guarantee he’d have made it work with Hornby? Widdop needs to be on the front foot to create opportunities and struggles to pull us out of trouble. Soward was often the reason we were on the front door!

The original comment was the Soward delivered more than Widdop despite what could be described as a step down in talent, and I stand by that. I’ve often said that with 10 to go and scores are close or level, I’d take a 2010 Soward over most players. In that situation, Widdop seems to have gone missing in the last few years (Dugan has often been the one to pull us out of trouble). Hopefully this is the year that changes, we’ll need it at a few points this year.

In saying that - I’d give a lot to see what our 2010 outside backs could have done outside of the current Widdop/Hunt combo.

 

[Old Timer]

Soward’s influence in the 2010 premiership was absolutely monumental
Whilst his defence at times was fragile his attacking flair and willingness to be the go to man in clutch situations far outweighed any deficiencies
His ability to light up the field and bring supporters to their feet was electric
The sheer exilleration of watching him in a gap was like winding the clock back to the great Slippery Morris with a bit of Lord Ted thrown in for good measure
Up until this year his purchase was possibly the most significant for over 20 years
Incredibly sad to see the way it all ended up.

 

[Bests Golden Boots]

Soward’s influence in the 2010 premiership was absolutely monumental
Whilst his defence at times was fragile his attacking flair and willingness to be the go to man in clutch situations far outweighed any deficiencies
His ability to light up the field and bring supporters to their feet was electric
The sheer exilleration of watching him in a gap was like winding the clock back to the great Slippery Morris with a bit of Lord Ted thrown in for good measure
Up until this year his purchase was possibly te most significant for over 20 years
Incredibly sad to see the way it all ended up.

Something strange about his demise at Penrith, don think we've heard the full story there.

 

[Old Timer]

Something strange about his demise at Penrith, don think we've heard the full story there.

Bennett gave him his head and a liscence to ad lib and he wins a premiership after being unwanted at Easts
So in effect a confidence player who ended up in the hands of the incompetent Price who crushed everything Bennett had created in him
Soward like Boyd needed the wise hand of Bennett to pat him in on the head and after Bennett Soward reverted back to the iffy player he was at Easts
Plenty of potential but needed the right hand pulling the reins.
I also suspect that he probably got bullied a bit at Penrith and that had a telling effect as well.

 

[Drag Queen]

Something strange about his demise at Penrith, don think we've heard the full story there.

Probably never will. I have to wonder if it had something to do with him being dropped to reserves. Anyway it's good to see him getting some media work. He did manage to play 215-220 FG games which is no mean feat.

 

[Life's Good]

I imagine this has already been pointed out; Barnhill had already left the Dragons - and had most likely retired - by 1999.

He and Scott Gourley were 'casualties' of the failed merger talks between St. George and Eastern Suburbs way back in 1995. As a result, both finished their playing careers (somewhat ironically) with the Chooks.

Barnhill, one of my all time favourite Dragons. An absolute champion bloke off the field too. I remember a game vs. the Dogs at the SCG(1993)and Barnhill had a blinder. Him and Gourley were a pretty effective second row pair for us and held their own in Origin.

 

[Saint_JimmyG]

Barnhill, one of my all time favourite Dragons. An absolute champion bloke off the field too. I remember a game vs. the Dogs at the SCG(1993)and Barnhill had a blinder. Him and Gourley were a pretty effective second row pair for us and held their own in Origin.

I'd say moreso for Barnhill than Gourley, who seemed to never reach his full potential.

 

[Saint_JimmyG]

Oh no doubt Bennett had the most influence on 2010. And with respect to this thread, the same could possibly be said about the forward pack though (before Bennett got to them, Weyman was an underperforming, ill-discipline grub, Scott was an average-at-best centre and Costigan was an error-riddled backrower).

But Soward a key ingredient. Without him, our whole game plan and strategy in 2010 changes and it’s hard to say how successful it is. Hell, Widdop has proven to struggle without a top-shelf halfback, any guarantee he’d have made it work with Hornby? Widdop needs to be on the front foot to create opportunities and struggles to pull us out of trouble. Soward was often the reason we were on the front door!

The original comment was the Soward delivered more than Widdop despite what could be described as a step down in talent, and I stand by that. I’ve often said that with 10 to go and scores are close or level, I’d take a 2010 Soward over most players. In that situation, Widdop seems to have gone missing in the last few years (Dugan has often been the one to pull us out of trouble). Hopefully this is the year that changes, we’ll need it at a few points this year.

In saying that - I’d give a lot to see what our 2010 outside backs could have done outside of the current Widdop/Hunt combo.

Soward + good coach + representative player (never mind Hornby wasn't a genuine half) = guaranteed success.

Widdop + below average mentor + not having a consistent, first grade quality scrum base partner (never mind the plethora of halves he's partnered with in a relatively short period) = inconsistent results.

There are major differences between the equations here.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[BennyV]

Soward + good coach + representative player (never mind Hornby wasn't a genuine half) = guaranteed success.

Widdop + below average mentor + not having a consistent, first grade quality scrum base partner (never mind the plethora of halves he's partnered with in a relatively short period) = inconsistent results.

There are major differences between the equations here.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

If we are going by the 'rep player but not a half' logic, then Benji falls into that category. Far more of a rep player than Hornby ever was, Widdop spent 2 years with him and failed.

The coach had a far greater impact.

Outside of that, we'll agree to disagree.

 

[Bests Golden Boots]

Back to the forwards.

Craig Young
John Dowling
Robert Stone
Pat Jarvis
Graeme Wynn
Graeme Buckley

How'd you like to meet that mob in a dark alley, especially if Albert had his police badge on and you were a long haired hippy with ripped jeans.

Wynn would be ok, he'd just be bludging on the blind side as usual.

 

[since77]

Interesting debate Soward v Widdop.

I think Benny V has got it right with this key observation: if the game is on the line you’d want 2010 Soward over Widdop. We don’t even get to the GF in 2010 without Soward’s calm performance in the prelim final. Widdop on the other hand is great, phenomenal even, when everything is clicking but I haven’t ever seen him get us home from behind.

For the record though, I think Widdop has a lot more upside in him and in 2 or 3 years time, he might draw ahead if he can steer us to a premiership.

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

Regarding your point, there's nothing to suggest that Widdop couldn't replicate Soward's better attributes. As indicated above, he is also a premiership winner with Melbourne.

I think Soward's long kicking game was without peer.
Widdop doesn't even come close.
Kicking into the corners was a tactic that Bennett used to great effect and was instrumental in us dominating field position and ultimately winning the comp in 2010.
Soward was able to implement.

 

[Walpole]

Back to the forwards.

Craig Young
John Dowling
Robert Stone
Pat Jarvis
Graeme Wynn
Graeme Buckley

How'd you like to meet that mob in a dark alley, especially if Albert had his police badge on and you were a long haired hippy with ripped jeans.

Wynn would be ok, he'd just be bludging on the blind side as usual.

With Jarvis, Stone and Albert leading the way there'd only be scraps left for Wynn anyway!

 

[Old Timer]

Wynn was the doorman at the St George Budapest Soccer Club for a while.
All the underage girls loved the big fella being on the door.
Never saw anyone ejected regardless of how drunk they were.

 

[Bests Golden Boots]

Wynn was the doorman at the St George Budapest Soccer Club for a while.
All the underage girls loved the big fella being on the door.
Never saw anyone ejected regardless of how drunk they were.

You didn't hang out with the right people.
I had a mate who cracked on to an 80y.o at the Budapest playing the poker machines, then humped a poker machine, he got kicked out......dragging said poker machine with him.