My 2016 NSW Origin Team

[DOGS AND EELS!!!]

Fair enough. If they pick Tedesco at fullback I'm predicting they'll struggle for points and creativity again. Moylan may not have produced many opportunities but he's definitely more likely to imo based on their respective skill sets.

If they had havles who could manufacture points as frequently as Cronk/Thurston then I'd be in favour of it but with the current options, it's just too predictable to have a player like Tedesco accompanying them.

They scored more tries and more points in game 3 (when Teddy was fullback) then game 1 or 2 (when Moylan was fullback).

 

[umina panther]

Yeah I think Hayne will play centre or even wing with Mansour out

 

[MF88]

Tedesco isn't the best option at fullback but he's definitely a better option there than Moylan.

Fair enough. Have to agree to disagree.

I rate a Moylan and Maloney combo as the best 6 and 7 we have.

I certainly think Austin is the better move, personally.

 

[MF88]

They scored more tries and more points in game 3 (when Teddy was fullback) then game 1 or 2 (when Moylan was fullback).

They also had a far, far greater share of field position in Game 3. Given the overall dominance, with repeat set after repeat set, it's quite reasonable to argue that NSW's "in opp.20" attack was even worse despite the fact that they marginally scored more points. In fact I think that is the case if you review the match carefully.

I think Tedesco replacing Moylan is purely coincidental to their scoreline. It had very much more to do with the overwhelming advantage in field position (which I guess you can in some small way ascribe to Tedesco's contribution but let's be serious, it was the forward dominance, the 12-3 penalty count and the repeat sets).

Aside from that, remember we're arguing about a very small sample size here. At this stage I'd happily concede that my perception of Moylan's superior creativity, and what I consider the exigent need for a creative player at fullback has not yet come to fruition. That's why I chose to invoke the results of the last decade (Stewart, Minichiello, Dugan; the last two of whom cannot pass to save their lives). It's only when a creative fullback has been in place that they've looked genuinely threatening on a consistent basis. Of course, if I had it my way and assuming he regains something like the form of 2014, Hayne is far and away the pick of the three of them.

My question is, do you contest the notion that Moylan is the better creator/play-maker, or do you simply think NSW don't need one. Or, perhaps you place a lot less importance on that facet than I do?

 

[MF88]

Double post.

 

[Vic Mackey]

They also had a far, far greater share of field position in Game 3. Given the overall dominance, with repeat set after repeat set, it's quite reasonable to argue that NSW's "in opp.20" attack was even worse despite the fact that they marginally scored more points. In fact I think that is the case if you review the match carefully.

Nsw had a lot more ball and field position in game 3. However why was that? You could say it was because they had a fullback who attacked kick returns and brought the ball back with force, getting sets off to a great start. Instead of letting everything bounce, then running 10m across field to link up with a winger and stifling any momentum.

I suppose it's a bit if a chicken/egg arguement.

 

[TheFrog]

NSW won the last game because Jennings managed to get the ball in broken play in the dying stages and score. This followed a pretty fine break by Ferguson off a Moylan pass which ended with Tedesco being tackled close to the line. Nothing really to do with Tedesco running the ball back strongly from kick returns which I didn't really notice in this particular match to be honest. He did get thrown the ball an awful lot in that game though, and bombed at least two tries.

There seems to be a bit of a revision of history going on with regard to that 3rd game and Tedesco's performance therein. I don't know why. Tedesco's position seems fairly safe unless he's injured or hopelessly out of form or they decide the give it to Hayne. But he didn't have a blinder or anything. He handled the ball heaps and was well contained by the Queensland defence, and didn't pass it to players in better positions a whole lot.

I'd like to see the Moylan passing to Tedesco strategy continued this year, but with Tedesco passing the ball as well to people like Ferguson rather than dying with it. I suspect Queensland could be shown up by such a plan.

 

[DOGS AND EELS!!!]

They also had a far, far greater share of field position in Game 3. Given the overall dominance, with repeat set after repeat set, it's quite reasonable to argue that NSW's "in opp.20" attack was even worse despite the fact that they marginally scored more points. In fact I think that is the case if you review the match carefully.

I think Tedesco replacing Moylan is purely coincidental to their scoreline. It had very much more to do with the overwhelming advantage in field position (which I guess you can in some small way ascribe to Tedesco's contribution but let's be serious, it was the forward dominance, the 12-3 penalty count and the repeat sets).

Aside from that, remember we're arguing about a very small sample size here. At this stage I'd happily concede that my perception of Moylan's superior creativity, and what I consider the exigent need for a creative player at fullback has not yet come to fruition. That's why I chose to invoke the results of the last decade (Stewart, Minichiello, Dugan; the last two of whom cannot pass to save their lives). It's only when a creative fullback has been in place that they've looked genuinely threatening on a consistent basis. Of course, if I had it my way and assuming he regains something like the form of 2014, Hayne is far and away the pick of the three of them.

My question is, do you contest the notion that Moylan is the better creator/play-maker, or do you simply think NSW don't need one. Or, perhaps you place a lot less importance on that facet than I do?

Whatever happens in a game is because of what the teams do, whatever the teams do is up to the players themselves, so yes you can argue that Tedesco individual brilliance had an impact on those advantages and his effect on the team as a whole led to those advantages.

I dont mind a creative player at the back but as long as he has the physicality to back it up, the only guy that stands out at both in this position is Jarryd Hayne and there's only one Jarryd Hayne. I agree, if he finds his 2014 form I would have him in the 1 and move teddy onto the wings or something. But if not I would have Tedesco at the back, yes I do put a lot less importance on the playmaking facet than you do when it comes to a fullback. Moylans so called playmaking didn't really come into fruition when he was at fullback and I doubt they ever will, he's a five eighth and probably the best we'll have for a while.

Also I think you have a short memory, Dugan when he's played fullback for nsw has always been very good. His real stand out game was origin 1 in 2015. He was beast that night.

 

[DOGS AND EELS!!!]

Fair enough. Have to agree to disagree.


I certainly think Austin is the better move, personally.

Austin is a left side player while Moylan plays on the right.

 

[TheFrog]

Moylans so called playmaking didn't really come into fruition when he was at fullback

It did at club level, certainly it did in the latter part of last year. In fact it is the entire reason he's considered for rep sides at all. Still, I don't think we'll see him at fullback for NSW in the forseeable future. As I've said before, he's got an error or two in him at fullback.

there's only one Jarryd Hayne.

He's got a bit of work to do IMHO.

 

[DOGS AND EELS!!!]

It did at club level, certainly it did in the latter part of last year. In fact it is the entire reason he's considered for rep sides at all. Still, I don't think we'll see him at fullback for NSW in the forseeable future. As I've said before, he's got an error or two in him at fullback.
He's got a bit of work to do IMHO.

Doing something at club level is so different from doing it at origin level. I wouldn't pick Moylan again at fullback but he's a certainty for the five eight jersey next year if I was to pick a team.

Yeah Hayne is quite a bit off but he's been away for 2 years, give him time and I think he can get back to his best.

 

[DOGS AND EELS!!!]

Meninga seems to agree with me

http://m.nrl.com/meninga-eyes-hayne-for-world-cup/tabid/10874/newsid/102956/default.aspx

 

[TheFrog]

Also I think you have a short memory, Dugan when he's played fullback for nsw has always been very good. His real stand out game was origin 1 in 2015. He was beast that night.

Starting to look like fullbacks 1 to 6. Only need to find another centre.

1 Hayne
2 Ferguson
3 Dugan
4 Tom T?
5 Tedesco
6 Moylan

 

[DOGS AND EELS!!!]

Starting to look like fullbacks 1 to 6. Only need to find another centre.

1 Hayne
2 Ferguson
3 Dugan
4 Tom T?
5 Tedesco
6 Moylan

Tbh I'm a bit lost atm when it comes to selection.

Hayne is versatile and can play anywhere, Dugan is a fullback and nothing more - should we move Hayne to accomodate Dugan? Either way should we then pick Tedesco on the wing rather then a specialist? Ferguson played really well for Australia but wasn't that good at origin, should we persist with him? Jennings wasn't great either but we know what he's capable of, what should we do with him? Jack Bird proved he was an origin player, how do we fit him in? Guys like Tom Trbojevic and Latrell Mitchell are definitely the future but is it too early for them?

 

[TheFrog]

This is not a suggested 1-6, but a possible 1-6 made up entirely of fullbacks.

 

[Medium Rare]

Austin is a left side player while Moylan plays on the right.

Austin plays on the right edge with Whitehead BJ & Rapana primarily.

 

[DiegoNT]

Starting to look like fullbacks 1 to 6. Only need to find another centre.

1 Hayne
2 Ferguson
3 Dugan
4 Tom T?
5 Tedesco
6 Moylan

Tedesco
Fergo
Dugan
Hayne
Tom T
Moylan
Jack bird as halfback (was tipped to play fullback at same stage in 2016 buy barba cemented that spot)

 

[MF88]

Whatever happens in a game is because of what the teams do, whatever the teams do is up to the players themselves, so yes you can argue that Tedesco individual brilliance had an impact on those advantages and his effect on the team as a whole led to those advantages.

That's a very long bow to draw. As TheFrog said, there seems to be a general trend of people vastly overrating how well Tedesco played in that match. He was far from brilliant imo.

I dont mind a creative player at the back but as long as he has the physicality to back it up, the only guy that stands out at both in this position is Jarryd Hayne and there's only one Jarryd Hayne. I agree, if he finds his 2014 form I would have him in the 1 and move teddy onto the wings or something. But if not I would have Tedesco at the back, yes I do put a lot less importance on the playmaking facet than you do when it comes to a fullback. Moylans so called playmaking didn't really come into fruition when he was at fullback and I doubt they ever will, he's a five eighth and probably the best we'll have for a while.

So you don't think his ball-playing is sufficient to warrant a spot at fullback but it is enough to warrant playing in the halves?

Also I think you have a short memory, Dugan when he's played fullback for nsw has always been very good. His real stand out game was origin 1 in 2015. He was beast that night.

Nah he's highly overrated. Sure he's a great ball runner but he can't pass to save his life. He's butchered countless 3-on-2's but most people seem either not to care or not to notice. He's extremely one-dimensional.

 

[MF88]

After the latest Four Nations I don't really see how Dugan can be in the running for a spot at all. He's not in the top 3 fullbacks, and his defence at centre for Australia was diabolical. Just as it was when they tried to press him into a winger. The guy just isn't rep standard.

 

[MF88]

NSW won the last game because Jennings managed to get the ball in broken play in the dying stages and score. This followed a pretty fine break by Ferguson off a Moylan pass which ended with Tedesco being tackled close to the line. Nothing really to do with Tedesco running the ball back strongly from kick returns which I didn't really notice in this particular match to be honest. He did get thrown the ball an awful lot in that game though, and bombed at least two tries.

There seems to be a bit of a revision of history going on with regard to that 3rd game and Tedesco's performance therein. I don't know why. Tedesco's position seems fairly safe unless he's injured or hopelessly out of form or they decide the give it to Hayne. But he didn't have a blinder or anything. He handled the ball heaps and was well contained by the Queensland defence, and didn't pass it to players in better positions a whole lot.

I'd like to see the Moylan passing to Tedesco strategy continued this year, but with Tedesco passing the ball as well to people like Ferguson rather than dying with it. I suspect Queensland could be shown up by such a plan.

Agree with this. It's not even so much being a great ball player but merely having the ability to identify an overlap or the potential for one, and then throwing a crisp pass. In that respect Tedesco was a lot like Dugan - Simply didn't pass. So the fact that he racked up a lot of run metres is actually detrimental rather than a glowing endorsement. Of course he's going to have more metres if he runs the ball rather than giving his outside men space and time - the sort of which lead to Ferguson actually creating the break which one them the match.