Nightingale its time.

Discussion in 'St George Illawarra Dragons' started by John moz, May 6, 2018.

  1. ouryears

    ouryears Juniors

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    I am hoping if he gets game time this week he will go on and have a great game and nighty does too. Here's hoping!
     
  2. ouryears

    ouryears Juniors

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    There is no way the problem with the outside edges of our defence belongs to Nightingale alone.

    No winger will stop 2 or 3 players running his way, with his centre beaten, and the cover defence not sliding quickly enough for him to stay out on his wing to manage his opposite number 1 on 1.

    It requires a team based solution to work out and implement a strategy to
    stopping it.

    Situation is.
    Storm get the ball, it leaves the ruck area or scrum fast, they create 4 on 3, sometimes even
    5 on 3, and our centre, wing and lock forward trying to close it down are outnumbered.

    Therefore, we need to force slower play the balls, we need quicker line speed, we need our fullback realising he needs to cover out wide as well and more scrambling cover defence, not just Fritz all alone.

    Regardless, this is a team issue to fix, not a nightingale issue.

    I didn't see our fullback or second rowers within Cooee of what was unfolding.

    I just saw Nighty and Fritz.
    They did their jobs, others didn't,
    or the strategy needs fine tuning.
     
  3. RufusRex

    RufusRex Immortal

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    you keep telling yourself that a faster winger isn't a better chance of turning out and covering the mistakes.

    The object of a compressed defence is to block up the middle and tempt the opposition with the edge knowing that you have the speed/slide to cover and push them out into touch. With the combination of Nightingale and the Compressed defence we are basically giving up the edge to any team with a cutout pass and a fast left winger.
     
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  4. ouryears

    ouryears Juniors

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    The speed from the covering defence, it is not one person's
    job. Compressed defence with one speedy winger fixes nothing.

    For goodness sakes, look at teams who have fast wingers, double the tries against them than us.

    Look at our isp team, fast wingers, triple the tries against them.

    Stop being one eyed anti nighty.

    Enough is enough.
     
  5. RufusRex

    RufusRex Immortal

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    you do know you are equally one eyed with respect to nighty don't you ...

    The only difference is that stats and evidence back up how past it he is ... you have nothing tangible only history and the mythical "intangibles"
    Cant score, cant stop tries being scored, works in an ineffective backline, most errors for any winger in the NRL, slow running, slow play the balls .. The only thing you hang your hat on is team structure and metres of which he still doesn't rate in making ground compared to other options.

    Enough is enough.
     
  6. Lovemedragons

    Lovemedragons Juniors

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    Hey Rufus if indeed you're arguments for dumping Nightingale are right do you think the timing might be a bit off given we are about to go through a period where several youngsters will likely get their chance anyway and the team will be in need of experienced club legends to help steer them through it? As I've said many times on here, dumping Nightingale now would be so wrong.
     
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  7. Dragsters

    Dragsters Juniors

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    Just ain't gonna happen...
     
  8. RufusRex

    RufusRex Immortal

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    Thx for intelligently engaging in the debate ...

    SOO Schedule is:

    Game 1 - Wed June 6 .. Team announced Mon May 28 ... Impact BYE .. Next game Doggies June 11
    Game 2 - Sun Jun 24 .. Team announced Mon Jun 18 ... Impact rep weekend off.. Next game Eels June 28
    Game 3 - Wed July 11 .. Team announced Mon July 2 ... Impact Storm Game missed ... Next game Tigers July 15


    So we are definitely without our players for one game against the storm who will be missing the likes of Addo Carr, Munster, Slater, Chambers, Smith etc .. The follow on games after each of the three origins is the teams currently running 7th, 15th and 16th

    It is the softest run I think the club has ever had during an origin period.

    Also, there is absolutely no reason if Aitken is picked that Nighty cannot play that game against the storm when we are without him or any other game that experience may be needed.

    What is the difference between club legend (which I don't dispute) experience and say the experience of other players who will still be there with plenty of 1st grade experience ie Widdop/Graham.

    If anything the timing is right now to make the change so that blokes wont be playing their first full game without the origin players around them.
     
  9. possm

    possm First Grade

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    We need a default defensive pattern of numbering up with our wingers prepared to face the opposition head on. We are always playing this compressed defensive pattern and opposition coaches are a wake up to it.
     
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  10. Frank Facer

    Frank Facer Juniors

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    Someone mentioned to me today, that Addo Carr ran around Nightingale last year too.
     
  11. Saint_JimmyG

    Saint_JimmyG Juniors

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    Actually I think it was the Fijian bloke last year but with the same defensive liabilities employed by McGregor.
     
  12. Saint_JimmyG

    Saint_JimmyG Juniors

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    I think I just BLANKED after reading this post. It is spot on.

    Time for a cold shower.
     
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  13. Belta

    Belta Juniors

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    0ur years said;

    doesn't mean we cant improve
    Hate to ruin your party but Zac Lomax has 2nd highest error rate in ISP.
    See below.
    It may also double under the pressure in first grade.

    Give me nighty till he sees it out this year.

    NEGATIVE PLAYS
    ERRORS
    [​IMG]
    NameTotal
    Jai FieldDragons 17
    Zac LomaxDragons 13 ********
    Mahe FonuaMagpies 12
    Honeti TuhaSea Eagles 11
    Jarome LuaiPanthers 10

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Is that the same Mahe Fonua that tore the Cowboys a new a###hole last night?

    Another example of how statistics are reliably a poor yardstick when evaluating players
     
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  14. ouryears

    ouryears Juniors

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    Possum, the wing can stay to defend his winger ...IF our halfback, five eighth and centre each tackle their own opposite number, leaving the wing to tackle his opposing winger.

    But....if the opposition attack our line with their fullback and their lock ALSO chiming in, our winger comes in to help our guys tackle the extra 2 additional opposition players... resulting in leaving space outside.

    So if the opposition is running
    5 attackers at our half, five eighth and centre, who tackles their extra fullback and lock they are throwing at us.

    So, the only way to keep our winger on his wing is IF our fullback and lock cover their extra two attackers coming at us.

    And we scramble in defence including our second rowers getting across to help our backs.

    But they haven't done this, resulting in nighty having to come in to try to stop them.

    Our scrambling defence out wide is very poor.

    Lock.....Fullback and Second Rowers need to fix this.

    Otherwise our backline will be outmanned every time and nightingale will have to keep on coming in.
     
  15. ouryears

    ouryears Juniors

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    Great pick up mate.
    I agree with you, some stats mean nothing.
     
  16. ouryears

    ouryears Juniors

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    The difference is this.
    Morris is rated say 7/10.
    Morris bro is rated 6.5/10.
    Nighty is rated 6.5/10.
    Our supposedly new gun junior is rated 7/10.

    So why would we sign Morris when nighty and our new gun junior is already equal to them?

    If nighty was 3/10 or 4/10 you might consider it .... but then again.... we have our new gun junior about to be promoted... who is already equal to Morris.

    So why bother?
     
  17. RufusRex

    RufusRex Immortal

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    Stats tell plenty .. they are not to be taken as one off things but part of an overall picture ..

    Errors for instance is a great one to use but not by itself ... A bloke like widdop has high number of errors but makes up for it in other areas of his game which others in the squad simply cannot replicate. No other player in the squad could come up the number of positive plays and so yes high error but yes plenty of positives.

    High error but high output in key areas is try assists, points scored etc is great

    Lomax is like this - has errors but also scores at about a try a game and has try assists also. Big metres and a high post contact metre tally as well.


    High error rate but no scoring ability, no ability to stop opposition scoring, no try assists .. that tells a huge story. A running game that is below that of a bloke considered lazy in no way makes up for the negatives. You just have to take the blinkers off and realise that he is past it and others can easily do what he can - the most obvious the bloke who proved in 2016 that he was better head to head.

    But the people thinking nighty still plays like 2010 cannot be told and are simply living in denial and are happy for him to be carried rather than to equally contribute. They will never learn until it is too late.

    And nighty is 3/10 at best.
     
  18. Old Timer

    Old Timer First Grade

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    Why is Nighty standing infield by 10 - 15 metres even before the overhead or cut out is thrown?
    IMO he is there because he is misreading the play whereas if he stays on the wing and he has to come into nail the centre to try and shut down the play at least the time and space available for them to execute has decreased and the pressure to execute has in fact increased.
    The only reason more tries haven't been scored against us because of coming in prematurely is due to their poor execution by throwing dumb forward passes.
     
  19. MilanDragon

    MilanDragon Juniors

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    Yea they may be waking up to it. But yet we have the best defence in the comp.

    So let’s say we change our structure and teams start scoring more? Maybe, despite its weakness out wide this is best suited to us, as determined by our coaching staff (who we apparently know more than).

    I’d love to know where weconcede the majority of our tries - if it’s out wide or in the middle, as a coach I know I’d rsther it be out wide. (Of course you’d rather concede 0, but that’s not realistic).
     
  20. Carlton

    Carlton Juniors

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    From what I have seen it looks like Nighty is not confident in his inside defenders and is hanging too long waiting to see if they are beaten before he starts moving out. He was beaten by Addo-Carr at least twice when the numbers were there in defence and he didn't need to wait so long to move out to the winger. He just hasnt got the snap anymore to stay inside and then try to turn and slide across when he is up against a quick winger.

    The other problem is Dufty is too far in field and too close to the try line in defence and in these situations is never in the play putting defensive pressure on the winger.
     
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