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NZ v Poms in US

Pommy

Coach
Messages
14,657
Well the NRL own the game and far supercede what rlif does. Money and power is with the NRL you will learn to fall in place heck i love the international but ask the NRL first. Simple as that. No one in the game can touch the NRL.

I guess you’re right to an extent and that what’s f**king the sport up. Until RLIF has the same power over the sport as FIFA do in football and the ARL and RFL fall in line under them the sport will always be amateur on the international scene.
 

deal.with.it

Juniors
Messages
2,086
It’s crazy to even think that NRL owns the game.

The RLWC would run without Australia’s participation. Why? Because Australia is not seen as a big country in sport by the rest of the world. The NRL is holding onto false power.

We already have professional teams in the RLIF member nations of Canada, Wales, France, PNG, NZ and England.

We also have Serbia, Fiji, Italy, USA wanting to join this growing number in the next few years.

Combined with growing numbers of players in big world sporting nations - Brazil, Spain, Mexico - it won’t be long until there are more players playing RL outside of Aus than within.

So do you strategically plan to capitalise on the above? Or do you stick with the status quo until your hand is forced.
 

KokoRugbyLeague

Juniors
Messages
88
It doesn't really matter does it just play the games with no NRL players. At least play semi pros or amateurs with reputation not in the NRL that will happily bleed for their respective jumpers. Rlif are ceding to NRL instead of just playing their games they are at their mercy.
 
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Stormwarrior82

Juniors
Messages
1,036
Sorry but this is between the RFL and NZRL the NRL shouldnt even be consulted. it’s an agreed rep window and the NRL can go swivel.

I actually think the Nrl has really taken a back seat. Most of the noise is coming from club land and players about fatigue/wellness. Most of the players that will be playing in this game have contracts to Nrl clubs that have a contract to supply players to the Nrl competition. But are you really suprised that clubs have there hand out?

The NRL isn’t the code. The code is rugby league governed by the RLIF. The RLIF members in question here are the RFL and NZRL. It is their decision. In alignment with the RLIF’s member rules, of which the NRL is a member, clubs operating under the auspice of the RLIF’s Member national governing bodies (ie the NRL) must release players for international sanctioned matches.

It’s really a no brainer.

Rugby league is overseen by the RLIF worldwide. The Nrl governs rugby league in Australia. It pays for, makes the rules, oversees etc the game in Australia. Let’s not get bogged down in this crap.

At the end of the day I don’t want to see a Clive Palmer, Andrew twiggy forrest, this bloke or any promoter with money to just whisk the players away for a game. It’s needs to be done right and with the clubs and players looked after health wise not just for some bucks.

Maybe you would be happy for a afl PROMOTER to come along and offer some players a bit of money to play a game? And I don’t think the afl,nfl, premier league,nba etc would just allow this to happen without certain considerations.??
 

deluded pom?

Coach
Messages
10,897
We have agreed to take the 2025 WC to North America. The least we can do is help the promoters get games on, within reason, there to, you know, promote the sport. I don’t think allowing players to participate in the Denver game is a huge ask if we are serious about growing the game. Then again I doubt there’s the will or desire to grow the game. It’s just more lip service and clubs dig their heels once the going gets a tiny bit rough. The Tongan defectors will be back where they started. Players will leave for union. We’ve got Origin. All’s well in our myopic world.
 

DC80

Juniors
Messages
215
Obviously a lot of Australians don't agree with that. Irrelevant comment.
Given that the baseball game did well in Australia, in addition to basketball being seen as a mainstream sport in Australia, it would appear that Australia is very different to the UK when it comes to embracing US sports. Different perceptions.

Baseball will never take off here as it was created in the UK as a children's game. You can't invent something that already exists, so "exporting" something that's already here would never work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rounders

It was initially called baseball (A little pretty pocket book), then for some reason the name "rounders" supplanted it here in the 1830s. It's the same sport with a few minor tweaks. I played it plenty myself as a kid. Our estate (roughly 15 to 20 kids), playing it on the street, jumpers used for each of the four bases, swing bat and run.

Basketball meanwhile is seen as more of a recreational game than a competitive one. Many people have a basketball hoop (we did), but it's not played like it is in the US. We have shooting competitions not actual games. In terms of basketball on tv I've never seen it on, it doesn't get covered.

NFL has its niche following but few play it...I've tried (will try anything), and it's bizarre to say the least. Hut hut...wrestle around for six seconds then stop. It's too mish mash.

Commonly referred to as soft power. America has been quite good at selling its way of life, its culture around the world through this type of power.

Australia, has never been as successful in pushing our culture around the world. For a little while there after the success of Crocodile Dundee we thought we maybe onto something. But that did not last long.

While I hope league in America succeeds, I have great doubts it will. As I have said a number of times before America is pretty well a closed shop to any new sports making headway there.
It's very poor when it comes to sports. It's a wasteland in comparison to films, tv, music etc.

The UK is probably the best all round soft power there is in that all the bases (pardon the pun) are covered when it comes to exporting their product in every field. When it comes to sport (just about every major global sport is British, globally has the highest profile league) the UK walks over everyone. Sport is definitely the one massive weakness of the US, even their sports based movies get limited release outside the US.

Just to back up my earlier point, the UK topped soft power rankings in 2015

https://www.economist.com/news/brit...olster-britains-power-persuade-softly-does-it

Just as an aside, the Chinese are a non-entity when it comes to soft power. Bar "made in China" there's very little Chinese stuff that's recognisable to the outside world.

Just looked at 2017, UK loses top spot to France

https://softpower30.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/The-Soft-Power-30-Report-2017-Web-1.pdf
 
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DC_fan

Coach
Messages
11,980
NFL has its niche following but few play it...I've tried (will try anything), and it's bizarre to say the least. Hut hut...wrestle around for six seconds then stop. It's too mish mash.

The NFL hopes to have a team playing full time out of London in the near future. As a big fan of the game I hope it works.

The UK is probably the best all round soft power there is in that all the bases (pardon the pun) are covered when it comes to exporting their product in every field. When it comes to sport (just about every major global sport is British, globally has the highest profile league) the UK walks over everyone. Sport is definitely the one massive weakness of the US, even their sports based movies get limited release outside the US.

Just to back up my earlier point, the UK topped soft power rankings in 2015

Britain, once ruled the world. The saying the sun never set on the British Empire. This allowed it to spread soccer and cricket to the far reaches of the world. I find it difficult to believe that the UK topped the soft power rankings just a few years ago. Outside of the EPL and to a certain extent the royal family their influence across the world has declined over the past 70 years.

As for American sporting movies, well you are probably right. But in general sporting movies don’t do a great business regardless of where they are made. Hollywood in recent times make movies that are are worldly then Americancentrisism


Just as an aside, the Chinese are a non-entity when it comes to soft power. Bar "made in China" there's very little Chinese stuff that's recognisable to the outside world.

China has done very little to sell itself to the world. It was a closed shop for many many years. Thus, we have not been presented with many of its cultures. Though in saying that many of the major cities of the world have their China Towns. But those come through people moving from China to those cities and not the influences moving. China depends on hard power and right now I believe it is winning that battle quite handsomely.
 

deluded pom?

Coach
Messages
10,897
Britain, once ruled the world. The saying the sun never set on the British Empire. This allowed it to spread soccer and cricket to the far reaches of the world. I find it difficult to believe that the UK topped the soft power rankings just a few years ago. Outside of the EPL and to a certain extent the royal family their influence across the world has declined over the past 70 years.
Would you not put British music up there as a soft power credential? British music is still as influential and listened to worldwide as it ever was. Sheeran and Adele are probably the two best selling artists in the world right now.
 

DC80

Juniors
Messages
215
Britain, once ruled the world. The saying the sun never set on the British Empire. This allowed it to spread soccer and cricket to the far reaches of the world. I find it difficult to believe that the UK topped the soft power rankings just a few years ago. Outside of the EPL and to a certain extent the royal family their influence across the world has declined over the past 70 years.
Football isn't the same as cricket or Rugby Union, the latter two which were exported from England to private schools via the British Empire (take a look at Australia, New Zealand, South Africa). Football spread organically...one group of English/Scottish/Welsh miners/ship builders/steel workers set up a team in an area, and this would then spread via the locals. Cricket and Rugby Union was part of the private school curriculum, implemented by school governors from England. Not to sound derogatory but they are toffs games (at their foundation), and wouldn't be played outside England but for colonialism. A map of the British commonwealth is basically where both are played, bar (in the case of rugby Union) south west France and a smattering of the middle class in Argentina.

The Premier League explosion is only in the last 15 years; it makes almost as much from foreign tv rights as domestic (the trend is it will actually eclipse domestic rights within the next five years, unheard of for any sports league).

Regarding the Royals, not my thing, but they generate ridiculous interest around the world. In terms of global ratings The Crown is up there with anything on tv right now.

As for American sporting movies, well you are probably right. But in general sporting movies don’t do a great business regardless of where they are made. Hollywood in recent times make movies that are are worldly then Americancentrisism

Which is why it fares poorly in contrast to the other fields. Most Hollywood films have a very balanced domestic-foreign box office taking, the exception is sports movies where the takings are heavily domestic.

Look at the list of the most followed on social media, plenty of US actors, singers, tv stars etc..but when it comes to sports its a cultural wasteland. Its dominated by Real Madrid, Barcelona, Manchester United, Ronaldo, Messi, Neymar etc.

http://fanpagelist.com/category/top_users/view/list/sort/fans/page1

China has done very little to sell itself to the world. It was a closed shop for many many years. Thus, we have not been presented with many of its cultures. Though in saying that many of the major cities of the world have their China Towns. But those come through people moving from China to those cities and not the influences moving. China depends on hard power and right now I believe it is winning that battle quite handsomely.
It does little to sell itself because it's a conformist society, not innovative. The Chinese wait for collective approval before doing anything, that's communism for you. They are fully aware of the vital importance of soft power diplomacy though to the extent they have been trying to get tips from the UK. And therein lies their problem, they cannot do it themselves, it's not in their national psyche.
 

DC80

Juniors
Messages
215
Would you not put British music up there as a soft power credential? British music is still as influential and listened to worldwide as it ever was. Sheeran and Adele are probably the two best selling artists in the world right now.
Was actually thinking about this quite recently. Pound for pound I would rank Germany number one when it comes to their cultural contribution to the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany#Culture

Basically every single area they have contributed hugely. From music (classical, also conceived the modern recording studio), literature (Brothers Grimm), cinema (conceived the idea of the film studio), sports (excelled at every major sport, unlike anywhere else), best cars, best engineers, many of the best inventions (Konrad Zuse, computer, Karl Benz, car, Von Braun, rocket - space travel). Adidas and Mercedes being among my favourite brands helps too.

Then it came to Individual fields; I would rank the UK number one for music (contemporary) and literature.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_the_United_Kingdom#Music

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_the_United_Kingdom#Literature

Cinema is easily the US.
Fashion, France
Cuisine, Italy
Technology/video games, Japan
Art, Netherlands
 

deluded pom?

Coach
Messages
10,897
Wasn't the computer invented by Briton Charles Babbage? Space travel came on the back of the invention of the jet engine, Briton Frank Whittle. Have the Germans excelled at every major sport? They're shite at rugby and cricket.
 

DC80

Juniors
Messages
215
Wasn't the computer invented by Briton Charles Babbage? Space travel came on the back of the invention of the jet engine, Briton Frank Whittle. Have the Germans excelled at every major sport? They're shite at rugby and cricket.
No invention is ever just one person, with the odd exception (Tim Berners Lee), Zuse was a massive figure in the conception of the modern computer. Babbage, Lovelace, Turing and many others played their role too. Whittle was at the heart of the conception of the jet engine (Germans were advanced too, the Messerschmitt was the best jet fighter in the war).

Rugby and cricket major sports? Certainly not global. They are British commonwealth sports.

Football (four time World Cup winners)
Tennis (Steffi Graf - best female player ive seen, best female athlete too), Becker
Boxing (Max Schmelling)
Golf (Langer, Kaymer)

Winter Olympics they just came 2nd on medals table. Katarina Witt the greatest Winter Olympics participant I've seen. Summer games they finish high in the table also.
 

Pommy

Coach
Messages
14,657
No invention is ever just one person, with the odd exception (Tim Berners Lee), Zuse was a massive figure in the conception of the modern computer. Babbage, Lovelace, Turing and many others played their role too. Whittle was at the heart of the conception of the jet engine (Germans were advanced too, the Messerschmitt was the best jet fighter in the war).

Rugby and cricket major sports? Certainly not global. They are British commonwealth sports.

Football (four time World Cup winners)
Tennis (Steffi Graf - best female player ive seen, best female athlete too), Becker
Boxing (Max Schmelling)
Golf (Langer, Kaymer)

Winter Olympics they just came 2nd on medals table. Katarina Witt the greatest Winter Olympics participant I've seen. Summer games they finish high in the table also.

Cricket is the second most played sport in the world. Obviously the sub continent skews those figures but I still think it qualifies as a major sport.
 

deluded pom?

Coach
Messages
10,897
No invention is ever just one person, with the odd exception (Tim Berners Lee), Zuse was a massive figure in the conception of the modern computer. Babbage, Lovelace, Turing and many others played their role too. Whittle was at the heart of the conception of the jet engine (Germans were advanced too, the Messerschmitt was the best jet fighter in the war).

Rugby and cricket major sports? Certainly not global. They are British commonwealth sports.

Football (four time World Cup winners)
Tennis (Steffi Graf - best female player ive seen, best female athlete too), Becker
Boxing (Max Schmelling)
Golf (Langer, Kaymer)

Winter Olympics they just came 2nd on medals table. Katarina Witt the greatest Winter Olympics participant I've seen. Summer games they finish high in the table also.
So in the history of these major sports you can come up with two tennis players, two golfers and one boxer! GB numerous boxing world champions, numerous golf major winners, several Wimbledon winners as well as other Grand Slam events. I’ll give you football that’s a no brainer. Germany has proper mountains and winter sports facilities. Hardly a fair comparison to GB but have you ever heard of Torvill and Dean, John Curry or Robin Cousins? Nash and Dixon won bobsleigh gold. Lizzie Yarnold double skeleton gold. We’ve also produced many swimming gold medalists and world champions.
 

DC80

Juniors
Messages
215
Cricket is the second most played sport in the world. Obviously the sub continent skews those figures but I still think it qualifies as a major sport.
Not globally it isn't. Just over a half dozen countries (England, that's it in Europe), Australia, NZ, South Africa, India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, West Indies, and its on its knees in the latter.

Cricket is the British commonwealth bar Canada.

Laureus world sportsman of the year is a good indicator of global sports

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laureus_World_Sports_Award_for_Sportsman_of_the_Year
 

DC_fan

Coach
Messages
11,980
Would you not put British music up there as a soft power credential? British music is still as influential and listened to worldwide as it ever was. Sheeran and Adele are probably the two best selling artists in the world right now.

Not to the extent that it was when the Beatles and the Stones ruled the world. Yes both the artists you mention are both very successful in selling their music, but have they been successful in making a cultural impact, especially like the Beatles did?
 

Pommy

Coach
Messages
14,657
Not globally it isn't. Just over a half dozen countries (England, that's it in Europe), Australia, NZ, South Africa, India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, West Indies, and its on its knees in the latter.

Cricket is the British commonwealth bar Canada.

Laureus world sportsman of the year is a good indicator of global sports

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laureus_World_Sports_Award_for_Sportsman_of_the_Year

I think the number of people playing the sport is a better measure but thanks anyway.
Cricket is all seeing a spread worldwide through the migration of people from th subcontinent, I wouldn’t be shocked in the next 20 years to see a US team a world cups.
 
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