Redneck Redfaces 2

[The Mad Hatter]

Have been away for a while but got the itch for something decent to read, so headed to your column. Volume 2 eh? Keep up the good work.

Just in regards to the 9's, seems our southern friends have decided to give it a crack too.

http://afl9s.com.au

Hmmm....

Anyway, hope all is good. I'm off again. Probably won't be back for a while but keep up the great work. Sniffing about the threads, certainly looks like Madge has put a broom through LU. Here's to back-to-back

Fight the good fights Pops.

 

[POPEYE]

Never ceases to amaze how Rugby League perseveres with flawed principles, hard to lay the entire blame at the feet of the media when hierarchy do what a good pig hunting dog would never do, chase something that doesn't smell like a f**king pig.

The salary cap was designed solely to stop poaching, instead it perpetuates mediocrity. If a struggling club that can't afford to buy elite players unearths hidden talent like Michael Lichaa for instance the salary cap is responsible for the same club being deprived of keeping the bloke

Dally M's are supposed to be a celebration of the best players all year round yet only awards points to the best 3. No f**king consideration for the other 14 all of whom could have had equal 1 point games, none of which will be added to their tally. The best three players all earning 3 points because they played the best that can be expected from a player in their position is apparently too hard to add up

Immortals might only be a pie in the sky for star crossed lovers who pretend to be League devotees, designed by the unknowledgeable for the unknowledgeable who need to buy magazines, but it is sanctioned by the NRL . . . more f**king flaws than the Empire State

Origin has been let become the be-all-end-all for no reason other than to appease the sale of commercials in what television stations consider prime time. Who cares if the League product for the rest of the year has been reduced to the equivalent of being made in China . . . who buys Australian anymore

Greg Florimo has found a big money backer for the Central Coast, not that much further away from the Harbour Bridge than Campbelltown or Penrith in the minds of people who do the travel. Why the f**k would League want to add to the conglomeration of teams that swill around in a poaching puddle when there are better areas in need of representation . . . why is Greg encouraged to waste his time

 

[POPEYE]

It's great that Slater is set to re-sign for 3 more years, Melbourne will see it as a good marketing tool just as much as player value, keeping players that are synonymous with a club does wonders for supporter morale. There is talk that other recruitment may suffer, I'm sure that clubs use that as an excuse to under pay promising players, take a risk that said players will understand and still hang around

Melbourne have already pushed the boundaries by getting caught paying 'against the rules' so they have an edge now when up and coming players are asked to 'sacrifice' money for the right tutelage. Shit state of affairs if you're trying to impress, have your heart set on staying but are being unjustly rewarded. This is a common occurrence with all clubs, easily eradicated if long term players were given concessions

It would piss me off enormously if the Storm was to lose Kurt Mann for instance, I don't give a f**k that Bellamy is in tune with player pros and cons, as a supporter I like the way the bloke plays, a country boy who knows no other way than give his all. Supporters mightn't be privy to all the goings on but they are supporters of League because they feel part of it, players getting a fair go is intrinsic

And to add while Mann seems to be reluctant to soapbox his talent we have Alex Johnston doing the opposite, publicly challenging Inglis for his position . . . never been a fan of speaking out of turn but these are the days of social media when speaking up is mandatory

 

[POPEYE]

It's one thing to moan and groan about Origin's adverse effects on what it has made a pretend premiership, another thing to actually make a stand and refuse to watch the series. Any League devotee would find such a protest equivalent to intentionally blinding himself so he couldn't read Rottie and then having to listen to Hadley

Because I thrive on being part of most minorities however I'd rather watch a 3 match Indigenous series taken seriously than the state against state circus. One day hopefully a truly National Rugby League will make Origin obsolete, not so with Indigenous potential players from all over Australia who might be swayed away from AFL just to play alongside men like Inglis and Thurston

I find it ironic that many wankers sneer at the Indigenous game yet the removal of such players from the national team would certainly result in Australia being as mediocre in League as it is in Union. Imagine if Indigenous players refused to play Origin because they didn't recognise state boundaries. No-one is more Original than an Indigenous Australian, I'd have no problem ignoring state against state if they didn't participate

 

[POPEYE]

The subject that pops up with monotonous regularity is the salary cap, can find it somewhere in almost every thread. It's like a f**king life preserver people hang onto when all else fails, not sure what's worse, the fools who defend it or soc's like me who ridicule it

Someone recently reminded us for the zillionth time that very few players wake up to find speedboats in their driveway, using that as a logical addendum is about as smart as tying a brick to your dick when the thing you're trying to stimulate is only about one centimetre deep. Exasperating how many small minds think the 'speedboat' line is intellectually stimulating

I can think of only one CEO dumb enough to imagine an elite NRL player would have the time or want to maintain a speedboat. Not hard to imagine though that a smart CEO, which is almost all of them, could convince a favoured player that the use of a speedboat, sailboat, jet ski, Ferrari, holiday house/destination, horse ride or lady ride is just a phone call away . . . free of maintenance

Truly amazing how many dumbarses actually believe the salary cap prevents anything demonic, it's nothing more than an excuse to under-pay good players, who make up 95% of the NRL. Any exceptional player either through his manager or by way of personal CEO/owner contact can ask for anything they want to be 'loaned' to them free of the encumbrance of having to pay

The real trick for these elite players is to invest the money they are being paid legitimately and don't have to waste on 'speedboats', again with the help of the smart CEO. Depending on trust there is also the possibility of promises made for life after footy. If the player is a dedicated 'loyalist' he would have a much bigger f**king laugh at the 'Cap Religion' than I do

 

[Hutty1986]

Interesting that you mention a potential 3 game series for the Indigenous Allstars Pops. The chance for these blokes to represent their culture is brilliant and a source of much pride.

Can't say it'll ever replace SOO, but it'd be a massive shame if it was taken off the calendar.

 

[POPEYE]

This time last year had Indigenous Australians as only 3% of the population, 12% of them played Rugby League, which incidentally has dropped from 22% over the years. Origin overall had 22%, Qld Origin since inception 33%, Australian test team 35% . . . according to the Aboriginal Culture website

All that is beside the point, from the remaining 97% of Australians the NRL can't come up with a team they think capable of beating the Indigenous team. To save face they have this Mickey Mouse game where Poms and Kiwis are invited to participate, can't have a massacre on our hands.

What too many Australians either fail or don't want to understand is that the Indigenous sector are the most naturally gifted Rugby League players on the planet and the vast majority of them come from the bush. The NRL in its wisdom are neglecting the bush and all its players, Indigenous or otherwise, as well as failing to give the original Australians the recognition they deserve

 

[POPEYE]

From memory I watched the first Ch9 footy show, maybe one or two other full episodes and a handful of 5 minute hold your breath sneek peeks over the years just to see if it's improved . . . which it hasn't. Been a long time since I've watched any footy shows, none of their presenters can tell me anything I can't see for myself

Must admit however from a few snippets I've seen I like the interaction Hindmarsh and Fletcher have conjured up. Reading that Fox is going to increase the dose of footy shows and since I'm already paying I might have a look. Hopefully Chimpanzee Johns doesn't make it unbearable, I was hoping he'd go back to Nine and keep f**kwit Vautin and his mindless followers company.

Anyway, I'm in favour of anything that decreases the favouritism Fox has shown over the years for AFL so the more League related programming the better. Hopefully Hindy & Fletch will turn the chimp's thunder into a sparrow fart and he will be relegated to f**k knows where

 

[POPEYE]

In all seriousness I'm fairly confident that a team of the best non-Indigenous Australian players without the help of Poms and Kiwis should be too good for the best Indigenous team. That statement however should be an indictment as to the value of such a contest, most of the spectators last night wouldn't have been concerned who was the victor

Cliché it might be but Rugby League was the winner and it always will be when the Indigenous are allowed to show the rest of us what they can do. Wasn't long ago the last time I sat around a campfire with a host of Indigenous people, most had late model vehicles and the best social media apparatus but they still had a welcoming aura that can't be replicated in any other gathering

The intensity last night was as great as you'd expect in the Premiership finals, the All Stars tried to match the Indigenous because they knew the public expected it of them but the Indigenous fire in the belly was too great to overcome. I'd rather watch that one game than three Origin games, love to see a three match series where players had to have Australian citizenship

People will say that the best All Star side would be too regimented to lose but there would be heaps more improvement in the Indigenous side given an opportunity and no team I've seen can match their will to win

 

[POPEYE]

It's a shame that no-one gives a damn about the positives in League, it's almost mission impossible to find a story worth commenting on when the big media money is to be made from carnage either embellished or prefabricated. If we all just went to pre-season games to look for the positives and ignored the media that would be as good as giving up smoking

I try not to wallow pig like in all the negatives, most genuine League supporters are probably engrossed in the Cricket anyway, a welcomed respite from sports writers determined to bite the hand that feeds them. Imo the greatest injustice is not by the players but by the people who thrive off misdemeanors, there is no greater sin in League imo than poaching players like Taumalolo

He was introduced into the top grade by the Cowboys and the reward for establishing such talent should be far greater than it is. The NRL needs to protect NQ not just because they need the bloke but because they went to the trouble of nurturing him. League doesn't need any more f**king negatives, and it needs to protect the positives, finding talent is of supreme importance, stealing it is carcinogenic

 

[POPEYE]

I once likened Kyle Turner in appearance to Ron Coote, his physique struck the same chord as the bloke I consider to be the greatest lock forward I've seen. If you like to have one forward that is as quick as most backs with impenetrable defence you'd understand my reasoning. The comparison falls in a heap when Kyle imo is nowhere near as robust as Coote, in fact not robust enough for his position

There are some players nowadays that are thrust into positions where they don't belong. Some like the Coote playing for the Cowboys probably shouldn't be playing League at all, his ambition and talent far outweigh his physical structure. Turner would be better off not having to take forwards like Gallen front on, he leaves his team disadvantaged by being knocked out of action more than he should

When Ribot was in the forwards he was ordinary, on the wing he was legendary, some coaches imo relate training too much to playing and let talent blind them to reality. The Gold Coast's biggest problem in recent times is their gun players not being able to turn up ready to play consistently. I'd rather see blokes like Turner play centre or wing than see them bashed out of the game. Vatuvei would have vanished years ago if he had of been asked to play in the forwards

 

[POPEYE]

'Rumoured Signings' is being cluttered up by a subject that doesn't belong, since it however is a pet of mine I welcome anyone to debate it here . . . don't be frightened, I only bite my version of rednecks

There has to be a line drawn to what is and what isn't poaching. Not because it reinforces my belief that the dominant club I follow can only remain just that as long as it doesn't partake in my idea of poaching . . . but what is best for Rugby League. I've soapboxed ad nauseam about a club's right to seek out players from anywhere and introduce them to the NRL but it's far bigger than that

Clubs can't be allowed to merely tag a young bloke's ear like a future side of beef just because his parents lived in it's precincts or even moved from somewhere disadvantageous in the hope their son might one day afford them bragging rights. If that were to happen League would remain a billy cart in a Formula 1 race.

What needs to happen is that clubs get off their arse and make a concerted effort to fill their ranks with players that deserve to be nurtured further than boundaries allow, create incentive and draw them away from other codes. None of this works if a club doesn't first employ a rock solid coaching/training environment

Any of the 16 teams could have searched out the coaches and players that Melbourne have if jealousy now dictates they are a 'must have', there is however many more where they came from just looking for a chance. The clubs that perform well take educated risks, not stand in line waiting for handouts like Bennett is advocating, he will never forgive Melbourne for emptying his pot of gold

No reason the Dragons for instance, especially with the tried and proven attraction of the Mighty Red V, couldn't have introduced Bellamy, Maguire, Robinson to the NRL and yet you never know Mary may be an equal. They could have introduced Melbourne's Big 5 in red and white just as easily as any club could have.

Bellamy has gone to the trouble of digging deep in NZ, anyone could have had these great NZ forwards, if Asofa-Solomona by chance is the new SBW anyone could have taken him from NZ Union, especially the Warriors. What is important is discovering talent, not waiting for it to be presented. League is desperate for new players, not the f**king mediocrity of 'owning juniors' and the heightened risk of overlooking or denying talent associated with it

Complacency is the enemy of League, only rewarding clubs who introduce talent coaches and players to the NRL will defeat it

 

[oikee]

'Rumoured Signings' is being cluttered up by a subject that doesn't belong, since it however is a pet of mine I welcome anyone to debate it here . . . don't be frightened, I only bite my version of rednecks

There has to be a line drawn to what is and what isn't poaching. Not because it reinforces my belief that the dominant club I follow can only remain just that as long as it doesn't partake in my idea of poaching . . . but what is best for Rugby League. I've soapboxed ad nauseam about a club's right to seek out players from anywhere and introduce them to the NRL but it's far bigger than that

Clubs can't be allowed to merely tag a young bloke's ear like a future side of beef just because his parents lived in it's precincts or even moved from somewhere disadvantageous in the hope their son might one day afford them bragging rights. If that were to happen League would remain a billy cart in a Formula 1 race.

What needs to happen is that clubs get off their arse and make a concerted effort to fill their ranks with players that deserve to be nurtured further than boundaries allow, create incentive and draw them away from other codes. None of this works if a club doesn't first employ a rock solid coaching/training environment

Any of the 16 teams could have searched out the coaches and players that Melbourne have if jealousy now dictates they are a 'must have', there is however many more where they came from just looking for a chance. The clubs that perform well take educated risks, not stand in line waiting for handouts like Bennett is advocating, he will never forgive Melbourne for emptying his pot of gold

No reason the Dragons for instance, especially with the tried and proven attraction of the Mighty Red V, couldn't have introduced Bellamy, Maguire, Robinson to the NRL and yet you never know Mary may be an equal. They could have introduced Melbourne's Big 5 in red and white just as easily as any club could have.

Bellamy has gone to the trouble of digging deep in NZ, anyone could have had these great NZ forwards, if Asofa-Solomona by chance is the new SBW anyone could have taken him from NZ Union, especially the Warriors. What is important is discovering talent, not waiting for it to be presented. League is desperate for new players, not the f**king mediocrity of 'owning juniors' and the heightened risk of overlooking or denying talent associated with it

Complacency is the enemy of League, only rewarding clubs who introduce talent coaches and players to the NRL will defeat it

I haven't a clue what you just said, but it all sounds like common sense to me, so it must be good.
Our code hasn't looked at union or AFL talent as yet. ?
Should we.

 

[oikee]

I see what you are saying Popeye.
Sorry, i have to disagree with you on this subject and i will explain why, and it involves why we are losing our players to other codes.
This starts with our younger players, and i encourage all clubs to make the same big money plays at junior players, and halfbacks/five-eights and other superstar players onto the market.

Some clubs are stacking good superstar quality players into their clubs, so other clubs are cut off from signing them.
I mean why should any club have a majority on more than one player in one position, while other clubs are struggling for stars.

The reason we need to allow clubs to make huge plays for our juniors is to keep them in our code.
Have we not seen enough players leave our code for higher money. ?
So we need to be paying our players bigger money.
Now the cows have proved they cant pay Taumalolo more than 500 thousand under the cap. ????

FFS, that is faking chicken feed, we will have union clubs coming in to take him off our hands if the cows tried to keep him with those peanuts.
The guy is a million dollar player.
The warriors came in with a sensible offer, and it will stop the B.S of having him shopped (so-called) to union clubs.
I mean if we are going to get fair dinkum, we need the Cherry Evans, the Forun's, the Taumalolo's and any other young superstars paid top dollar, so we dont have this bullshite of them being shopped to union.
Pay the fakers what they are worth, and under the new ever increasing salary cap, they are worth more and more at a younger age.
We then just might be able to keep them all in our code without having union sniffing around picking our players up for peanuts.

So sorry Popeye.
It is not called poaching anymore, it is called saving our superstars from heading to union.
Dont blame the warriors because the cows put all their funds into Thurston.
They should have thought about their future a little better, and offering Taumalolo 500 thousand is a insult.

 

[POPEYE]

You're first post was the more accurate, you don't have a clue what I'm saying . . . how about I try to make it more succinct to avoid 'confusion'

We want League to prosper, the best way is to get as many supremely talented players on the paddock as possible

Clubs must be encouraged to search out this talent, whether it be previously undiscovered, bypassed or inefficiently promoted

The best way to encourage clubs to make a supreme effort is to make them feel secure in their endeavours

The only real reward is to give a club that first ESTABLISHES a player in the top grade, Thurston as an example, an advantage if a bidding war is initiated . . . no advantage, no incentive to continue searching/risk taking

If the Warriors want Taumalolo the Cowboys get a 25% head start on their offer, Jason as a result won't have to go somewhere just for money, provided NQ want him at all cost. If the Warriors were to outbid the Cowboys they would pay a far heavier price in more ways than one

If clubs really want to have elite players they are going to have to either create them and be allowed to pay them what they're worth through concession or pay overs if they force up the price, in so doing deflate their cap as punishment for being lazy

Marquee bullshit doesn't come into, even if Bennett has his way and U/20's players were rationed out in a draft, it's up to the coaching staff to turn a promising player into an NRL player. Once that happens the club must have an advantage when it comes to keeping the bloke

The moral of the story is clubs are not being ripped off when time and effort is superceded by bankrolled inefficiency and hopefully elite players can be paid what they're worth if they remain one-club stalwarts

No need for you to feel sorry ol' mate, your input is welcomed, I can find something interesting in almost everyone

 

[MaxPower]

Define ESTABLISHES. Plenty of players have debuted and never established themselves as first graders. Why limit incentives to established players anyway? If the Sharks want Jack Bird or the Roosters want Jackson Hastings, the Drags get a 25% head start. If there is plenty of potential talent out there undiscovered, don't you think you would be more likely to find it if your attention isn't focused on another NRL clubs juniors?

 

[POPEYE]

The reason I used the term 'establishes' is to include the grey area surrounding Thurston. I admit there is conjecture whether the Cowboys should be able to claim him as 'their own', the Dogs never established him as a top grader, it's hard to imagine any team would only allow him to play 29 games in 3 seasons mostly of the bench

My pet hate is people claiming players as 'their juniors'. All the NRL has to do to make the game truly national is stipulate all clubs have to have a junior program, set a criteria regarding the minimum number of juniors they have to foster. Doesn't matter if a club has a huge precinct or it has to do it through feeder clubs. The Roosters for example are venturing into the Central Coast

No player before he signs a contract and expects to play on a regular basis in the top grade should be considered to be the 'property' of anyone, there is no better way to discourage players than tie them to a promise. Every team has to field U/20's, if an 18 year old is so good they can't wait they'll have to play him in the top grade to keep him

In this way no club can store a bank of players, other clubs are free to give the bloke a chance if they're confident in their coaching staff enough to take a risk. All the money in the world won't keep a confident youngster on the back burner, if he's any good he'll jump at the chance to play the top grade anywhere

A line has to be drawn somewhere and that is the line I advocate. No player 'belongs' to a club until he has shown his abilities in the NRL and his club plays him on a regular basis . . . maybe that basis could be the determining point set by the NRL as the beginning of his career. It's not the beginning of careers that concern me

I'm interested it what clubs are entitled to if they base their team around players they need to keep, players that have been part of their plans from day one and inexhorably become 'poachworthy' by other clubs that are too f**king lazy to undergo the proper process.

A real rugby League enthusiast will want to see every club keep the players it deserves to keep in the hope they will perpetuate the search for the next generation, only a f**kwit would want to see clubs opposing his be decimated so his lazy outfit would prosper . . . at the expense of Rugby League advancement

 

[MaxPower]

How about some kind of transfer fee? Club B signs a player from Club X. Club B pays Club X a fee based on the players salary and how long he was at Club X. This simultaneously reduces the incentive to poach, increases the incentive to develop players, and provides compensation to clubs who are affected by poaching.

 

[oikee]

You're first post was the more accurate, you don't have a clue what I'm saying . . . how about I try to make it more succinct to avoid 'confusion'

We want League to prosper, the best way is to get as many supremely talented players on the paddock as possible

Clubs must be encouraged to search out this talent, whether it be previously undiscovered, bypassed or inefficiently promoted

The best way to encourage clubs to make a supreme effort is to make them feel secure in their endeavours

The only real reward is to give a club that first ESTABLISHES a player in the top grade, Thurston as an example, an advantage if a bidding war is initiated . . . no advantage, no incentive to continue searching/risk taking

If the Warriors want Taumalolo the Cowboys get a 25% head start on their offer, Jason as a result won't have to go somewhere just for money, provided NQ want him at all cost. If the Warriors were to outbid the Cowboys they would pay a far heavier price in more ways than one

If clubs really want to have elite players they are going to have to either create them and be allowed to pay them what they're worth through concession or pay overs if they force up the price, in so doing deflate their cap as punishment for being lazy

Marquee bullshit doesn't come into, even if Bennett has his way and U/20's players were rationed out in a draft, it's up to the coaching staff to turn a promising player into an NRL player. Once that happens the club must have an advantage when it comes to keeping the bloke

The moral of the story is clubs are not being ripped off when time and effort is superceded by bankrolled inefficiency and hopefully elite players can be paid what they're worth if they remain one-club stalwarts

No need for you to feel sorry ol' mate, your input is welcomed, I can find something interesting in almost everyone

I think their is a pun their. No worries, i give you the benefit of the doubt, dont you miss that call. The refs making a 50/50 call.

No.


Yes, agree now i understand what you were saying. Spot on popeye.
Still, the cows should have first and last rights to keep Taumololo, but gee whiz, up the faking bid.
The guy is a million dollar player. Pay the sucker, and by paying him big money, he wont want to move to union.

Same with Inglis, he is worth at least 2 million, with third parties and what not.
Pay him 2 million a year and union will fake off and pull their heads in.
We even have Aussie rugby now making a play for him, even though they had to beg to get more money off fox to keep their faking game afloat.

The Queensland reds were shonking state government funds at one stage a few years ago, the shonky bastards.

 

[oikee]

How about some kind of transfer fee? Club B signs a player from Club X. Club B pays Club X a fee based on the players salary and how long he was at Club X. This simultaneously reduces the incentive to poach, increases the incentive to develop players, and provides compensation to clubs who are affected by poaching.

Can of worms. Mind you they do this in England superleague and it works alright.

I still like the option that popeye said, that the cows get the last crack at keeping him,.
If they come close to matching the Warriors offer, he would probably stay.