Rumours and Stuff

[lingard]

Yeah. There seems to be a narrative that has cropped up lately that he only just realised he needs a some big boppers

Not true in the slightest.

But...but.....but we were called death-riders for suggesting our forward pack was too small. Turns out we were thinking the same as our coach. How about that? And devil's advocate who steadfastly maintained our pack was fine and the coach couldn't make mistakes was actually arguing against the coach's plans all along. He must be a bit confused right now. (Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

 

[lingard]

#exceptforwhentheydontbutitdoesntstopthemwhingingaboutshitadnausembecauseonceuponatimethestarsalignedandtheyguessedcircumstancescorrectlyinthefaceofeithersupportivefactsorevensemireasonableargument

Good point.

 

[emjaycee]

To be honest I don't really see that anyone who was constantly called a death rider was called it for saying we needed bigger forwards - no one, not even Pou has said we don't need bigger forwards. The death rider tag was applied to poster who consistently and only had something negative to say with absolutely zero positivity about anything to do with the club. The same bunch of posters who seemed to derive pleasure from any failings of the club if it meant BA would be sacked or something similar occur.

And personally, I didn't really see you as a death rider @lingard as while you may have been negative, you were still able to offer constructive options and opinions.

All Pou ever said (repeatedly) was that the forwards we have are the ones who got us to the top 4 last year so they were/are good enough. Don't recall him or anyone else ever saying we don't need bigger forwards.

 

[Gary Gutful]

But...but.....but we were called death-riders for suggesting our forward pack was too small. Turns out we were thinking the same as our coach. How about that? And devil's advocate who steadfastly maintained our pack was fine and the coach couldn't make mistakes was actually arguing against the coach's plans all along. He must be a bit confused right now. (Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

So now you appear to accept that BA didn't actually just work out 5 min ago that he needed a bigger pack? Great.

Hopefully you'll also accept that nobody was actually arguing that our pack was 'fine'. The only thing they were doing was highlighting that said pack was sufficient to help us make the Top 4 last year. That's a fair and reasonable observation and important context when discussing our forwards situation.

...and if anyone was (jokingly) called a 'deathrider' it wasn't because they merely suggested that our forward pack was too small. That label is reserved for a much deeper and sustained level of negativity.

 

[strider]

Exactly. So those harping on about it were right, weren't they? Whereas certain devil's advocates were way off the mark.

#whingersknowwhatthey'retalkingabout

I dont know if anyone has ever disagreed that it would be nice to have a big forward or two .... i dont believe its an isuue of whether we need one or not .... the issue is more about people crapping on forever about how they know we need one but the f**king coach has no idea .... well, no - the f**king coach knows too

 

[84 Baby]

The other thing that highlights a deathrider is that they only point out issues but never solutions.

 

[hineyrulz]

The other thing that highlights a deathrider is that they only point out issues but never solutions.

Yeah get bigger forwards FFS!!!

 

[hybrideel]

If you want to know who the true deathriders are, just look for the ones who haven't posted since the win.
All evidence points to Pou

 

[hineyrulz]

If you want to know who the true deathriders are, just look for the ones who haven't posted since the win.
All evidence points to Pou

I f**king knew it, tricky f**king merkin.

 

[Gary Gutful]

The other thing that highlights a deathrider is that they only point out issues but never solutions.

Also when pressed, they think they are identifying a solution by saying “fix the problem”.

 

[lingard]

A range? People say centre but I dont see it, he lacks the acceleration or elusivness and power of a great centre. He certainly isnt a winger and only an average half.
Unsure why you wouldn't give your best player his best position. Would be quite stupid.

I think he's a very good centre. He's more in the style of Bateman (England) than Inglis or Jennings. I'd keep him at fullback though. He shown me enough to suggest he's better value there at the moment than French has been. So when French is fully fit do we potentially weaken the fullback position just to accomodate him? I hope Gutherson doesn't become a victim of his own utility value.

 

[Gronk]

I think he's a very good centre. He's more in the style of Bateman (England) than Inglis or Jennings. I'd keep him at fullback though. He shown me enough to suggest he's better value there at the moment than French has been. So when French is fully fit do we potentially weaken the fullback position just to accomodate him? I hope Gutherson doesn't become a victim of his own utility value.

Why would Gutho go to centre if Taka and Mennings are fit ?

 

[lingard]

I am a French fan and when I started this discussion about offloading him, I was doing so a bit tongue-in-cheek but at least it started some interesting discussions. I would only really to look to off-load him for disciplinary reasons at this stage of his career and our team make-up.

Personally, I am of the belief you pick your best 17 players and find a spot for them each week, although it is probably more that you pick your best 23 players and keep them as long as you can, so you can pick your best 17 from the 23 each week.

To my way of thinking, French would be in the best 23 at most clubs, simply on his raw ability, instinct/anticipation and his speed. These are not things that can be trained into a player and all the good and great coaches look for and keep players who are "football players". Gutho is one of these and so is French. Sure his size goes against him in our current lineup and the fact there is a subjectively better fullback in front of him also doesn't help his cause.

Lingard suggested French would be better suited to a club like Melbourne or the Roosters with a good half, five-eighth, hooker, and a well-balanced set of forwards. I don't disagree, but is it French's fault Parra doesn't have these? We have a good half, a good five-eighth and some good forwards and BA is well aware we need to find a better hooker and improve our forward stocks. If we did this, then wouldn't Parra become that place for French and wouldn't he be a great fullback?

I said it last week and I will say it again, I reckon Gutherson can make a go of any position from 1-7 he is that talented. Pick your best 17 and fit them in somewhere.

TLDR: Keep both French and Gutho and make it work.

Two points: 1. It's not French's fault Parramatta don't have the right team to suit his style - but (I believe) it is the reality.
2. Maybe Gutherson is somewhat of a project player as well. Maybe has the potential to be a stand out fullback. He has said that it's his favourite position. He had a stand out game there for City against Country. Do we let his utility value hinder his progress in that area and potentially see him move to another club to play fullback? We've seen that French has some weaknesses in his game. Gutho has very few. Do we accomodate someone who could become very good, at the expense of someone who already is?

 

[Happy MEel]

Two points: 1. It's not French's fault Parramatta don't have the right team to suit his style - but (I believe) it is the reality.
2. Maybe Gutherson is somewhat of a project player as well. Maybe has the potential to be a stand out fullback. He has said that it's his favourite position. He had a stand out game there for City against Country. Do we let his utility value hinder his progress in that area and potentially see him move to another club to play fullback? We've seen that French has some weaknesses in his game. Gutho has very few. Do we accomodate someone who could become very good, at the expense of someone who already is?

Excellent points Lingard. It’s a big no from me. Gutho is already a much better fullback than French, it is his preferred position, he’s our captain and it will allow us to pay him spine money in the future, which will hopefully keep him at the eels for his entire career.

 

[Snoochies]

Two points: 1. It's not French's fault Parramatta don't have the right team to suit his style - but (I believe) it is the reality.
2. Maybe Gutherson is somewhat of a project player as well. Maybe has the potential to be a stand out fullback. He has said that it's his favourite position. He had a stand out game there for City against Country. Do we let his utility value hinder his progress in that area and potentially see him move to another club to play fullback? We've seen that French has some weaknesses in his game. Gutho has very few. Do we accomodate someone who could become very good, at the expense of someone who already is?

Kinda like the Hayne and Origin saga. Hayne was the best fullback but others were wanted in the team and couldn't play anywhere else so Hayne had to accomodate for others who weren't as good.
If Gutho is the best FB, then he stays there.

 

[Gronk]

Two points: 1. It's not French's fault Parramatta don't have the right team to suit his style - but (I believe) it is the reality.
2. Maybe Gutherson is somewhat of a project player as well. Maybe has the potential to be a stand out fullback. He has said that it's his favourite position. He had a stand out game there for City against Country. Do we let his utility value hinder his progress in that area and potentially see him move to another club to play fullback? We've seen that French has some weaknesses in his game. Gutho has very few. Do we accomodate someone who could become very good, at the expense of someone who already is?

Let's not be focused on French vs Gutho.

The point here really is that if French is only talking up a small % of the cap, then why not give him more time to rectify his faults. Mend and grow his body and work on his techniques whilst in possession. This is what the Roosters did with Latrell only he had different issues. They gave him time because he was a worthy experiment.

FMD we are not talking about Bureta Faraimo here.

 

[lingard]

The other thing that highlights a deathrider is that they only point out issues but never solutions.

So now you appear to accept that BA didn't actually just work out 5 min ago that he needed a bigger pack? Great.

Hopefully you'll also accept that nobody was actually arguing that our pack was 'fine'. The only thing they were doing was highlighting that said pack was sufficient to help us make the Top 4 last year. That's a fair and reasonable observation and important context when discussing our forwards situation.

...and if anyone was (jokingly) called a 'deathrider' it wasn't because they merely suggested that our forward pack was too small. That label is reserved for a much deeper and sustained level of negativity.

Under normal circumstances (which we are finding out now) that forward pack wouldn't have gotten us anywhere near top four. Without Radradra, without a lot of luck in the draw, we wouldn't have got near it. The fact that Devil"s Advocate kept harping and whining about 29 games and top four, only served to prolong the argument (as usual). Those that continued to argue against his nonsense were then perceived as being extra negative. Happens all the time on here. People who would normally say their piece and then move on, are caught in a cycle of arguing for its own sake. But they are not deathriders in the real sense.

 

[lingard]

Why would Gutho go to centre if Taka and Mennings are fit ?

Exactly my point. Gutho would be good in the centres. But so are Taka and Jennings. Why move Gutho there to accomodate French at fullback?

 

[Stevie]

I don’t want to know what you entered into google to come up with that...

"Google".

 

[Gronk]

Exactly my point. Gutho would be good in the centres. But so are Taka and Jennings. Why move Gutho there to accomodate French at fullback?

Again you are focused on French taking Gutho's spot. French needs to work on things. He might play reggies or wing in the meantime. If there is an injury then BA might need to shuffle the cards. You need depth mate and French could well be a GOAT by the time he is 30. Unless he is taking up a huge slice of the cap, then why not have him in your squad ?