Sales are strong

[gallagher]

It's never going to happen.

Rugby Union is not only a larger fraternity. It's far more of a community. It has magnificent international appeal. Great development structures. Tonnes of opportunities, and plenty of financial backing from both corporate and private markets. NRL is currently an abhorrent struggling mess. It'll take a long time before it will ever come 'close' to competing with Rugby Union or AFL.

Apart from international appeal league has it all over union. On a few of your points.

Great development structures. Like what? They attempted a national comp for players not involved in the wallabies tours and gave it one year. The next comp down from s14 is local rugby, a very poor standard. Is there a junior comp like the NRL U20's?

Tonnes of opportunities. 4 clubs, soon to be 5 will have opportunities for roughly 100 - 125 fully professional player country wide. League has roughly 375. (I allowed 25 players for each club)

NRL is a abhorrent struggling mess. While they have some issues I think your being a bit too harsh. The highest accumalitive ratings sport in the country this year would suggest they arnt going too bad. An absolute mile ahead of union in this regard.

The biggest problem union will find is that the aus clubs will always be competing against SA ans NZ in the s 14. Thats 2 nations where union is the number 1 sport.They have quality players stokpiled that are international standard. Aus clubs are gonna find it harder and harder with another club being introduced to fill their squads with quailty and to make the finals.

Perth Reds wont get to the size of West Coats or Fremantle but will catch and overtake the Force with 5 years in my opinion.

 

[Nicolas Hart]

Great development structures. Like what? They attempted a national comp for players not involved in the wallabies tours and gave it one year. The next comp down from s14 is local rugby, a very poor standard. Is there a junior comp like the NRL U20's?

You are clearly a one-eyed Rugby League supporter, thus biased in your view. Not only biased, but your comments above only show how ill-informed you are on the state of Rugby Union in Perth.

Tonnes of opportunities. 4 clubs, soon to be 5 will have opportunities for roughly 100 - 125 fully professional player country wide. League has roughly 375. (I allowed 25 players for each club)

You are not taking into account earning capacity, marketing opportunities, or international opportunities. This is not a solely local debate. Australian players are 'snapped up' by countries all around the world (Japan, Fiji, and so forth). The "reach" of Rugby League isn't huge (unless you consider Super League, which, is only another competitor against the NRL's success in Australia)

NRL is a abhorrent struggling mess. While they have some issues I think your being a bit too harsh. The highest accumalitive ratings sport in the country this year would suggest they arnt going too bad. An absolute mile ahead of union in this regard.

The two cannot be compared in relation to 'TV Ratings'. The structure of their seasons and the nature of their competitions make it near impossible to compare in that regard. As for my opinion in regards to the NRL presently being an abhorrent struggling mess - I stand by that 100% - I don't think it's too harsh at all. The "some issues" you refer too are not minor, or petty issues.

The biggest problem union will find is that the aus clubs will always be competing against SA ans NZ in the s 14. Thats 2 nations where union is the number 1 sport.They have quality players stokpiled that are international standard. Aus clubs are gonna find it harder and harder with another club being introduced to fill their squads with quailty and to make the finals.

Again, this only demonstrates how little you actually understand about the sport of Rugby Union in Australia. It's one thing to be a strong supporter of Rugby League; but don't enter into debates about two separate sports, if you're only submersed in one.

Perth Reds wont get to the size of West Coats or Fremantle but will catch and overtake the Force with 5 years in my opinion.

Neither Rugby Code will match the powerhouse of AFL in Western Australia.

As for the second part of that quote - it's definitely a subjective forecast which will differ amongst many.

For the record - I'm wanting Rugby League to succeed in WA - and very much so at that. I'm just not being entirely optimistic and, to some extent, unrealistic about the whole scenario.

 

[gallagher]

You are clearly a one-eyed Rugby League supporter, thus biased in your view. Not only biased, but your comments above only show how ill-informed you are on the state of Rugby Union in Perth.



You are not taking into account earning capacity, marketing opportunities, or international opportunities. This is not a solely local debate. Australian players are 'snapped up' by countries all around the world (Japan, Fiji, and so forth). The "reach" of Rugby League isn't huge (unless you consider Super League, which, is only another competitor against the NRL's success in Australia)



The two cannot be compared in relation to 'TV Ratings'. The structure of their seasons and the nature of their competitions make it near impossible to compare in that regard. As for my opinion in regards to the NRL presently being an abhorrent struggling mess - I stand by that 100% - I don't think it's too harsh at all. The "some issues" you refer too are not minor, or petty issues.



Again, this only demonstrates how little you actually understand about the sport of Rugby Union in Australia. It's one thing to be a strong supporter of Rugby League; but don't enter into debates about two separate sports, if you're only submersed in one.



Neither Rugby Code will match the powerhouse of AFL in Western Australia.

As for the second part of that quote - it's definitely a subjective forecast which will differ amongst many.

For the record - I'm wanting Rugby League to succeed in WA - and very much so at that. I'm just not being entirely optimistic and, to some extent, unrealistic about the whole scenario.

So I have no idea. Your post has little points though.

Point 1.How about telling me about the ' great development structures' union has over league. Just dismissing my point doesnt prove yours.

2. Great opportunities. Yes union has far more international appeal, I said that in my post. But league has more opportunities for kids. A lot more scholarships are available from league than union due to the bigger number of clubs. Union has opportunities overseas to established players and league players ironically.

3.Ratings. Well i wonder why you say you cant compare.

4. My point on Aus clubs struggling to make the s14 finals. Once again you just dismissed my point by trying hard to belittle me. That doesnt prove your point, just your lack of ability to constructively debate my post.

 

[Perth Red]

What has this to do with the friendly on Feb 14th? Can you stick on topic or start a new thread. Thanks.

 

[Nicolas Hart]

What has this to do with the friendly on Feb 14th? Can you stick on topic or start a new thread. Thanks.

It's called a conversation Perth Red.

They generally evolve over time.

If every topic remained completely stagnant it'd be boring. The conversation flows, people make comments, others comment on their thoughts/opinions.

It's the nature of the beast.

 

[Nicolas Hart]

So I have no idea. Your post has little points though.

Point 1.How about telling me about the ' great development structures' union has over league. Just dismissing my point doesnt prove yours.

2. Great opportunities. Yes union has far more international appeal, I said that in my post. But league has more opportunities for kids. A lot more scholarships are available from league than union due to the bigger number of clubs. Union has opportunities overseas to established players and league players ironically.

3.Ratings. Well i wonder why you say you cant compare.

4. My point on Aus clubs struggling to make the s14 finals. Once again you just dismissed my point by trying hard to belittle me. That doesnt prove your point, just your lack of ability to constructively debate my post.

I completely agree that my post prior to yours did not prove much. I certainly dislike it when people make blank, sweeping statements with little evidence or explanation, so I can understand my previous post was likely a little irritating for you.

Though, my non-existent elaboration was more due to my lack of interest in explaining the finer points of the discussion - as opposed to a lack of ability to express it (not being disrespectful here, by the way). After all, it's a pretty mute point regardless of who we decide is "more correct" than the other.

 

[gallagher]

I completely agree that my post prior to yours did not prove much. I certainly dislike it when people make blank, sweeping statements with little evidence or explanation, so I can understand my previous post was likely a little irritating for you.

Though, my non-existent elaboration was more due to my lack of interest in explaining the finer points of the discussion - as opposed to a lack of ability to express it (not being disrespectful here, by the way). After all, it's a pretty mute point regardless of who we decide is "more correct" than the other.

I wasnt after who was correct or not. I just wanted you to tell me about unions great development structures that you claimed they have. It appears your like the AFL boss. You just make ridiculous comments with no basis and hope people just believe you.

AS for your "lack of interest in explaining the finer points of the discussion". You used 7 paragraphs last post. It looks you you have the interest but just not the facts.

Your just a stereotypical union fan with an unjustified superiority complex.

 

[WA Roo]

Rite now there are heaps of kids coming back to league from union in perth cause they no that the force just get in players from nsw and qld.

And there is no extra development path in union there is more in league thats why there are more nrl players from perth than there are force players from perth. niclas hart must be a union stooge

 

[Nicolas Hart]

I wasnt after who was correct or not. I just wanted you to tell me about unions great development structures that you claimed they have. It appears your like the AFL boss. You just make ridiculous comments with no basis and hope people just believe you.

AS for your "lack of interest in explaining the finer points of the discussion". You used 7 paragraphs last post. It looks you you have the interest but just not the facts.

Your just a stereotypical union fan with an unjustified superiority complex.

Hahaha. I'm a stereotypical Union fan ?

The reason I did not elaborate has nothing to do with my level of understanding, or involvement in Rugby League, and Rugby Union in Perth. Rather, there's little point in discussing -this- topic with -you- , and , I can't see how this pissing contest you're attempting to create on an online forum will resolve anything. So, I chose - wisely - not to fuel a fire which you're continuing to try and antagonise.

For the record - I am a fan of both Rugby League and Rugby Union - I am involved in both codes - I don't particularly have a stronger allegiance with either one , and that is the difference between you and I in this whole conversation. I am able to take an objective approach to this; whereas you're clearly a myopic one-eyed Rugby League man, who cannot stand the thought that someone would 'dare' criticise the sporting code on a Forum dedicated to it.

And to that I say: get over it.

 

[Nicolas Hart]

Rite now there are heaps of kids coming back to league from union in perth cause they no that the force just get in players from nsw and qld.

And there is no extra development path in union there is more in league thats why there are more nrl players from perth than there are force players from perth. niclas hart must be a union stooge

:roll:

Your comparison between "NRL Players from Perth" against "Force Players from Perth" is completely laughable.

You cannot compare Perth athletes participating in the entire NRL competition, against one individual Super 14's club.

Honestly. If you're going to get involved in a conversation - when you're clearly involved with a local league club - at least learn to communicate in English, and make appropriate comparisons.

 

[Nicolas Hart]

Rite now there are heaps of kids coming back to league from union in perth cause they no that the force just get in players from nsw and qld.

And there is no extra development path in union there is more in league thats why there are more nrl players from perth than there are force players from perth. niclas hart must be a union stooge

While I'm logged in, and can be bothered attempting to express a point here; the fact you're trying to suggest that Rugby League in Perth has a better development system than that of either WAFL or RugbyWA is absolutely laughable. The manner in which rugby league development in Perth is operated is based on minimal financial support, limited personnel and resources, non-functioning "departments", limited coaching support resources, limited player support, and so on. In comparison to both the AFL and Rugby Union, who's community development programs are highly well received, very productive, well financed and supported, their coach and athlete training and development stages / resources / courses / administration are incredible. Athlete and Talent identification, recruitment, retention and support are also operated in a far greater / wider landscape than that of Rugby League in Perth. That is a no brainer.

The truth of the matter is. The few of you who are becoming upset by what I'm saying, are those of you who only understand Rugby League's position in Perth. The fact that none of you have worked in, or currently work in either WAFL/AFL , or Rugby Union just shows that you're completely unaware of how Rugby League matches up / compares with these sports. As a result, you're speaking from a highly uneducated viewpoint on the matter.

Oh... and the majority of players with the Western Force are actually local Perth players, who've been recruited from numerous first grade clubs in the local competition. Of course there are 'some' interstate/international imports, the majority are not. In addition to this, the WARL can only "recruit" locally, because the competition cannot remotely attract Eastern Staters here... because there is no attraction at present. So, if you're going to attempt to throw ambiguous statistics, and throw-away remarks about "more people joining league than union" , you should probably have a better understanding of the club you are attempting to criticise, AND, you should probably have actual access to any form of participation statistics ... and since you clearly have neither; I'd suggest you simply don't get involved - though that's clearly too much to ask.

 

[gallagher]

Hahaha. I'm a stereotypical Union fan ?

The reason I did not elaborate has nothing to do with my level of understanding, or involvement in Rugby League, and Rugby Union in Perth. Rather, there's little point in discussing -this- topic with -you- , and , I can't see how this pissing contest you're attempting to create on an online forum will resolve anything. So, I chose - wisely - not to fuel a fire which you're continuing to try and antagonise.

For the record - I am a fan of both Rugby League and Rugby Union - I am involved in both codes - I don't particularly have a stronger allegiance with either one , and that is the difference between you and I in this whole conversation. I am able to take an objective approach to this; whereas you're clearly a myopic one-eyed Rugby League man, who cannot stand the thought that someone would 'dare' criticise the sporting code on a Forum dedicated to it.

And to that I say: get over it.

So you say in your first post that league will never catch union in Perth and give some reasons why. If this is a pissing contest( as you put it) then werent you the one starting it with your first post?

If union has great development structures in place then just tell me what they are. Its that simple, thats all I want.

 

[Nicolas Hart]

So you say in your first post that league will never catch union in Perth and give some reasons why. If this is a pissing contest( as you put it) then werent you the one starting it with your first post?

No. I was simply making an observation based on the flow of discussion in this thread. There are numerous people on this forum who can quite easily vouch for my desire to see Rugby League in Perth (thus, NRL in Perth) succeed, some of whom I've met in person and know how much I want to see it prosper.

Regardless of this, as an objective viewer of both codes, believe that in Perth - Rugby League will never match Rugby Union - and that as a whole, Rugby Union will always be a bigger worldwide sport than Rugby League. The simple fact of the matter is; you're so caught up in wanting to defend the honour of your sport, you refuse to actually be reasonable about the discussion

So, you and your little forum buddies, attempting to "tag" me with this apparent Union alliance is just ridiculous.

If union has great development structures in place then just tell me what they are. Its that simple, thats all I want.

As for this - It would take me a fair amount of time to paint a clear picture of the numerous developmental pathways for players, coaches, referees, administrators and volunteers within RugbyWA (and the ARU) - and as I said to you earlier, I don't feel like I need to justify it. After all, whether YOU believe this to be truth or not is totally irrelevant. I couldn't care less if you want to ignorantly assume that your sport is the greatest in all that it aspires for. If I was to ever address the weaknesses of development to those with a position to make a change, I might actually put the effort in. Considering I have no interest in whether you're convinced of either stance; why should I take the time to honour your request?. Right, I shouldn't.

 

[gallagher]

Oh... and the majority of players with the Western Force are actually local Perth players, who've been recruited from numerous first grade clubs in the local competition.

According to the their website, the following are from elsewhere.
Wykes
Tatupu
Swanwpoel
Stanforth
O'Conner
Pocock
Pretorius
Rapana
Sharpe
Sheehan
Shepherd
Henderson
Hodgson
Manu
Hunt
Inman
Jones
McCalman
Bartholomeusz
Brown
Cowan
Cross
Dunning
Cummings
Harris
Fairbrother

Thats 26 out of the 34 player listed. That doesnt seem to match up with what your saying.
Have you heard of the internet? People can research things and see if what your saying is truth or just b*llsh*t.

 

[Nicolas Hart]

According to the their website, the following are from elsewhere.
Wykes
Tatupu
Swanwpoel
Stanforth
O'Conner
Pocock
Pretorius
Rapana
Sharpe
Sheehan
Shepherd
Henderson
Hodgson
Manu
Hunt
Inman
Jones
McCalman
Bartholomeusz
Brown
Cowan
Cross
Dunning
Cummings
Harris
Fairbrother

Thats 26 out of the 34 player listed. That doesnt seem to match up with what your saying.
Have you heard of the internet? People can research things and see if what your saying is truth or just b*llsh*t.

Actually, that list completely incorrect and incomplete - instead, it appears you either cannot read, or have just thrown additional names up there for the sake of bolstering your list to make it look more impressive.

In addition to this, you've neglected to consider / add the numerous academy / development squad players who are apart of the club as well.

Maybe you should learn to "research" better.

 

[Nicolas Hart]

For the record, I know two of those guys personally - and know exactly how they developed to enter the Western Force Academy, or the Western Force main squad, so having them in your list was pretty stupid. Rather than 'bluffing' your way through this whole discussion in some poor attempt at gaining credibility (or superiority), just let it go.

IF they had never played Rugby until they moved to Perth, and were then developed through RugbyWA clubs and competitions, to be identified as a talent from Perth's structure, to enter the perth's Western Force team - then they are locally developed, and local talents.

 

[WA Roo]

Hey niclas hart

You got no idea. all force players that play in top team are from other places. galagher showed that easy and even ryan cross is from nrl, lol. meanwhile there are 4 or 5 players from perth in nrl. so league has better ways to get to the top of there sport for kids in perth

Plus you siad you are involved in league and union in perth. there is no way you are involved in league so you are a lair as well as a stooge. and you dont no much about union players as well so you must be a afl stooge. lol.

 

[joondalup_giant]

IF they had never played Rugby until they moved to Perth, and were then developed through RugbyWA clubs and competitions, to be identified as a talent from Perth's structure, to enter the perth's Western Force team - then they are locally developed, and local talents.

out of curiosity how many super 14 players have we produced?

 

[WA Roo]

I reckon the answer that joondalup giant is none. But niclas hart nos some personally. There the local ones from WA but spent there 1st 20 years in south africa or nz. lol.

 

[Perth Red]

Never is a long time!

RL was stronger than Union in WA in the early 90's and i can see a time when it will be again. The S15 is struggling (WA got more TV viewers for NRL (600k) with no team and games on at 1am than S14 got last year! (550k))

When the NRL finally sorts its ownership problems out and starts getting $'s that should be from media deals then we will a massive resurgence of Rl, including in WA.

Remember the WARU had a $12million development grant from the ARU funded from the RUWC played here so they should have good structures!

AFL will never be in any danger in WA from other codes but the battle for 2nd place between RU, soccer and RL is going to be massive over the next two decades.