"The Roster I Want"

[Bests Golden Boots]

I posted this in another thread, and at the risk of starting another useless thread I thought it deserved more discussion.
McGreagor "Roster I Want"

JDB, Vaughn, Frizel, Sims.
4 current SOO reps.
Hunt.
Current, some would say unfairly former, SOO halfback.
Graham, international Prop.
Widdop, international 5/8
LAM, international prop.
McInness, one of two chances for SOO hooker.
Aitken, in the mix for SOO centre.
Tim Lafai, international Samoan rep.
Nene MacDonald, international PNG rep.
Dufty, good judges rate as a next superstar.

Now on paper that is as good a roster as any team in the comp.
So why were we at the start of the year rated as wooden spoon contenders?
Why do I believe, fairly or unfairly, that we have over achieved by being 3rd at this stage of the year?
Why does everyone, fans and commentators, not rate us, and despite where we are, believe we will choke and drop out?

What is it about our club that we can not consistantly get the best out of that roster.
McGreagor is the simple answer, but is it the only one?

 

[hazzbeen]

I posted this in another thread, and at the risk of starting another useless thread I thought it deserved more discussion.
McGreagor "Roster I Want"

JDB, Vaughn, Frizel, Sims.
4 current SOO reps.
Hunt.
Current, some would say unfairly former, SOO halfback.
Graham, international Prop.
Widdop, international 5/8
LAM, international prop.
McInness, one of two chances for SOO hooker.
Aitken, in the mix for SOO centre.
Tim Lafai, international Samoan rep.
Nene MacDonald, international PNG rep.
Dufty, good judges rate as a next superstar.

Now on paper that is as good a roster as any team in the comp.
So why were we at the start of the year rated as wooden spoon contenders?
Why do I believe, fairly or unfairly, that we have over achieved by being 3rd at this stage of the year?
Why does everyone, fans and commentators, not rate us, and despite where we are, believe we will choke and drop out?

What is it about our club that we can not consistantly get the best out of that roster.
McGreagor is the simple answer, but is it the only one?

Mary and the never ending jobs for the boys club .... Need a complete clean out .......

 

[RufusRex]

Mary and the never ending jobs for the boys club .... Need a complete clean out .......

The obvious is obvious

Coaches since "The Run" to take us to a Grand Final
Harry Bath, Roy Masters, Brian Smith, David Waite, Wayne Bennett

Not one of these an internal promotion - not one of these a bloke who at least didn't gain some experience coaching at other clubs in other structures … Some may have had ties to the club previously but all grew and developed away from us.

Only one coach to come to the club as an outsider has failed to get us to a Grand Final since the mighty 11 in a row … That bloke Ted Glossop who only won a mid week cup with us …

Now for the list of internal failures with no experience outside the club
Craig Young, Andrew Farrar*, Nathan Brown, Steve Price, Paul McGregor


Farrar was Head Coach at the Steelers pre merge but took a back seat to Waite when the JV formed .. Took over and showed his worth.

 

[muzby]

It’s clearly the St George side of the ledger’s fault.

Sell the Taj, give Kogarah back to the community and move to Wollongong full time.

Change the jersey to a predominately red one with a couple of white stripes and bring back the Steelers (or cutters, given they have the JV’s most recent silverware.


Viva Le revolution!!

 

[Dragonslayer]

I posted this in another thread, and at the risk of starting another useless thread I thought it deserved more discussion.
McGreagor "Roster I Want"

JDB, Vaughn, Frizel, Sims.
4 current SOO reps.
Hunt.
Current, some would say unfairly former, SOO halfback.
Graham, international Prop.
Widdop, international 5/8
LAM, international prop.
McInness, one of two chances for SOO hooker.
Aitken, in the mix for SOO centre.
Tim Lafai, international Samoan rep.
Nene MacDonald, international PNG rep.
Dufty, good judges rate as a next superstar.

Now on paper that is as good a roster as any team in the comp.
So why were we at the start of the year rated as wooden spoon contenders?
Why do I believe, fairly or unfairly, that we have over achieved by being 3rd at this stage of the year?
Why does everyone, fans and commentators, not rate us, and despite where we are, believe we will choke and drop out?

What is it about our club that we can not consistantly get the best out of that roster.
McGreagor is the simple answer, but is it the only one?

No it isnt, you can throw in Young, Hornby and Head.
The overall coaching of our team is one-dimensional. We even see the same thing in ISP.
As with previous years we bound out of the gates Vo Rogue style everything rosy until opposition coaches catch on to our game plan (sic). It's easily worked out and actions taken 2 play against us. And it has been the same for the last 3 years, each year it's the same.
The evidence is clear:
We were averaging some 30 points a game in the first half of the season. What is it now?
We were averaging some 12 points against us in the first half of the season.
I believe it is now nearly 19.

It's not the players attitude as some would believe it's just simply other teams looking at how we play and making corrective measures to beat us. It's only due to some individual brilliance that we haven't lost more games than we have.

The power game scenario which works wonderfully for the first half of the season starts to misfire once you add additional work loads to our players.
They might be physically able to play but the mental stress and fatigue is something that needs to be controlled and that's only done via the coaching staff. The player always wants to play that's his job, but even sometimes we all need to rest for the long benefit not the short-term feel good.
When I look at the storm, rabbits and roosters they are all starting the momentum push to the finals. We are on that slide we are famous for due to no planning or insight by our coaching staff.
Players should have been rested not given the option of playing, this just reeks of being mates syndrome
If and it's a big if, it is the attitude of the players, McGregor needs to drop them if only to sharpen them up a la Wayne Bennett with Hunt last year.

As you can see everything revolves around the coaching staff of the dragons. Our team is littered with Internationals and state of origin players and we are starting to play like a team of stars rather than a star team.
That only comes from the attitude of the coaching staff.

 

[Gareth67]

The coach quite simply lacks any foresight , has a game plan and that is the same plan that shall apply to each match throughout the season and as a result of this his players are restricted to how they play the game .

Other teams with coaches that can see the big picture can also see the weaknesses in our defensive structure , quite simply there are players in the back line that are tackle shy and to compound this are just too slow .

Most unfortunately for all concerned the lower grade players simply do not gain enough 1st grade experience . So when it is time to come in to the squad ( as in the Melbourne match ) they are at 6’s &7’s , whereas the other NRL clubs throw their juniors in at the first opportunity - Mary does not and will not until it is absolutely necessary .

The forward pack has powered its way over all opposition in the early stages of the year with the backs scoring plenty of tries through the packs go to . But now that same pack is tiring , the backs are not scoring as many as they did .

Solution for this year - rest those forwards as quickly as possible before another season that held so much promise is flushed down the toilet into Wollongong harbour .
Put a giant rocket up the back line and tell them that they are 1st grade rugby league players and as such the club expects 100% commitment from them in each and every game .

As for Mary - show the bloke some videos of Harry Bath and Roy Masters , perhaps he may with a bit of luck learn something from those 2 wiley old masters .

 

[JDHD]

The obvious is obvious

Coaches since "The Run" to take us to a Grand Final
Harry Bath, Roy Masters, Brian Smith, David Waite, Wayne Bennett

Not one of these an internal promotion - not one of these a bloke who at least didn't gain some experience coaching at other clubs in other structures … Some may have had ties to the club previously but all grew and developed away from us.

Only one coach to come to the club as an outsider has failed to get us to a Grand Final since the mighty 11 in a row … That bloke Ted Glossop who only won a mid week cup with us …

Now for the list of internal failures with no experience outside the club
Craig Young, Andrew Farrar*, Nathan Brown, Steve Price, Paul McGregor


Farrar was Head Coach at the Steelers pre merge but took a back seat to Waite when the JV formed .. Took over and showed his worth.

Calling Nathan Brown a failure is a bit rough. Wayne Bennett basically did what Paul Green did in 2015 - win a comp off his predecessors incredible work. I genuinely believe that Matt Head’s biscuit legs cost us a premiership in 2005.

 

[muzby]

The coach may have the roster he wants...


but does the roster have the coach they want?

 

[getsmarty]

No it isnt, you can throw in Young, Hornby and Head.
The overall coaching of our team is one-dimensional. We even see the same thing in ISP.
As with previous years we bound out of the gates Vo Rogue style everything rosy until opposition coaches catch on to our game plan (sic). It's easily worked out and actions taken 2 play against us. And it has been the same for the last 3 years, each year it's the same.
The evidence is clear:
We were averaging some 30 points a game in the first half of the season. What is it now?
We were averaging some 12 points against us in the first half of the season.
I believe it is now nearly 19.

It's not the players attitude as some would believe it's just simply other teams looking at how we play and making corrective measures to beat us. It's only due to some individual brilliance that we haven't lost more games than we have.

The power game scenario which works wonderfully for the first half of the season starts to misfire once you add additional work loads to our players.
They might be physically able to play but the mental stress and fatigue is something that needs to be controlled and that's only done via the coaching staff. The player always wants to play that's his job, but even sometimes we all need to rest for the long benefit not the short-term feel good.
When I look at the storm, rabbits and roosters they are all starting the momentum push to the finals. We are on that slide we are famous for due to no planning or insight by our coaching staff.
Players should have been rested not given the option of playing, this just reeks of being mates syndrome
If and it's a big if, it is the attitude of the players, McGregor needs to drop them if only to sharpen them up a la Wayne Bennett with Hunt last year.

As you can see everything revolves around the coaching staff of the dragons. Our team is littered with Internationals and state of origin players and we are starting to play like a team of stars rather than a star team.
That only comes from the attitude of the coaching staff.

Well said.

 

[giboz71]

We have a good roster.

Not perfect, but very good compared to the post Bennett years. Halves and forwards I’d stack up against any team in the comp. Millward has done a good job.

What we lack is strike in the backline and depth in our forwards. It’s disappointing that our crop of juniors has not been developed to the extent other clubs like the Panthers have. This is where we should have been looking to fill those holes.

For whatever reason, guys like Leilua, Host, Lawrie, Sele, Herbert, Garrick, Field etc still fall short of FG standards.

Teams like Panthers, Rabbits and Storm can play their reserves and still win games and give their stars a rest when needed.

We are incapable or unwilling to do that and that’s where we are falling short.

 

[JDHD]

We have a good roster.

Not perfect, but very good compared to the post Bennett years. Halves and forwards I’d stack up against any team in the comp. Millward has done a good job.

What we lack is strike in the backline and depth in our forwards. It’s disappointing that our crop of juniors has not been developed to the extent other clubs like the Panthers have. This is where we should have been looking to fill those holes.

For whatever reason, guys like Leilua, Host, Lawrie, Sele, Herbert, Garrick, Field etc still fall short of FG standards.

Teams like Panthers, Rabbits and Storm can play their reserves and still win games and give their stars a rest when needed.

We are incapable or unwilling to do that and that’s where we are falling short.

I’d say the coaching staff know the juniors are not good enough. Host is the only one I’d trust in grade but he’s injured. Leilua is skilful but, let’s be honest, he’s fat and unfit. The Storm went after him when they had the ball because they know he’s unfit and they could exploit him.

We keep asking why Mary won’t play these juniors, but they reality is when he does give them minutes it’s obvious that they’re out of their depth and need more time in Reggie’s.

It’s also worth noting that we’ve really only built our development pathways in the last three years. Penrith have been building for at least six or seven and are only now reaping the benefits.

 

[Bests Golden Boots]

I’d say the coaching staff know the juniors are not good enough. Host is the only one I’d trust in grade but he’s injured. Leilua is skilful but, let’s be honest, he’s fat and unfit. The Storm went after him when they had the ball because they know he’s unfit and they could exploit him.

We keep asking why Mary won’t play these juniors, but they reality is when he does give them minutes it’s obvious that they’re out of their depth and need more time in Reggie’s.

It’s also worth noting that we’ve really only built our development pathways in the last three years. Penrith have been building for at least six or seven and are only now reaping the benefits.

Why aren't the juniors ready?
Most, if not all, are junior NSW or Australian Reps, all now in thier 20s.
So why can't we get them ready for first grade?

 

[BennyV]

I posted this in another thread, and at the risk of starting another useless thread I thought it deserved more discussion.
McGreagor "Roster I Want"

JDB, Vaughn, Frizel, Sims.
4 current SOO reps.
Hunt.
Current, some would say unfairly former, SOO halfback.
Graham, international Prop.
Widdop, international 5/8
LAM, international prop.
McInness, one of two chances for SOO hooker.
Aitken, in the mix for SOO centre.
Tim Lafai, international Samoan rep.
Nene MacDonald, international PNG rep.
Dufty, good judges rate as a next superstar.

Now on paper that is as good a roster as any team in the comp.
So why were we at the start of the year rated as wooden spoon contenders?
Why do I believe, fairly or unfairly, that we have over achieved by being 3rd at this stage of the year?
Why does everyone, fans and commentators, not rate us, and despite where we are, believe we will choke and drop out?

What is it about our club that we can not consistantly get the best out of that roster.
McGreagor is the simple answer, but is it the only one?

I dont think we were wooden spoon contenders, just 'fringe 8 at best'. And the reason is 100% the coach. All the pundits danced around the issue and identified symptoms of our root problem as reasons we wouldnt win it - inability to close out tight games, poor player development, history of fading late in the season, poor defensive structure, and so on. Many of them are acquainted with Mary and others still likely dont want to rock the boat for fear of being left out of the loop for future scoops within the club. But every reason given comes back to the coach.

 

[slippery5]

I posted this in another thread, and at the risk of starting another useless thread I thought it deserved more discussion.
McGreagor "Roster I Want"

JDB, Vaughn, Frizel, Sims.
4 current SOO reps.
Hunt.
Current, some would say unfairly former, SOO halfback.
Graham, international Prop.
Widdop, international 5/8
LAM, international prop.
McInness, one of two chances for SOO hooker.
Aitken, in the mix for SOO centre.
Tim Lafai, international Samoan rep.
Nene MacDonald, international PNG rep.
Dufty, good judges rate as a next superstar.

Now on paper that is as good a roster as any team in the comp.
So why were we at the start of the year rated as wooden spoon contenders?
Why do I believe, fairly or unfairly, that we have over achieved by being 3rd at this stage of the year?
Why does everyone, fans and commentators, not rate us, and despite where we are, believe we will choke and drop out?

What is it about our club that we can not consistantly get the best out of that roster.
McGreagor is the simple answer, but is it the only one?

My question is: 1. Would LAM be an international if others had made themselves available.
2. Do you really think Lafai & McDonald are worthy internationals ? would they get a start in one of the big test sides like Aust./ England/ NZ/ or Tonga for that matter.

 

[KiamaSaint]

A lot of our issues come 14 to 30.

 

[Bests Golden Boots]

A lot of our issues come 14 to 30.

But why, we have just as good juniors, but ours are "never ready"
Other clubs throw 18y.o kids on the wing and they kill it, we never do.
18 to young
19 not ready yet
20 needs more time in ISP
21 .....oh they've moved on.

 

[muzby]

A lot of our issues come 14 to 30.

Well that’s true..

But I’m older than 30 now and I still have issues...

 

[Drakon]

Well that’s true..

But I’m older than 30 now and I still have issues...

We know!

 

[Old Kogarah Boy 1]

Mary and the never ending jobs for the boys club .... Need a complete clean out .......

This ...... game, set & match.

 

[ALSGI]

Mary and the never ending jobs for the boys club .... Need a complete clean out .......

Agree, but wont happen.
Timmins, Head, Hornby, Young........
Nighty, Graham next...
All great players.....but would you invest your money with them?