WCW on WWE Network

Discussion in 'Pro Wrestling' started by Iafeta, Dec 4, 2016.

  1. Iafeta

    Iafeta Referee

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    So I'm watching WCW from the start of Nitro. Now at the episode where Scott Hall appeared. So I have some thoughts...

    Positives

    DDP - slowly getting a push
    Johnny B Badd - good underrated wrestler
    The international wrestlers
    Savage v Flair
    Development of the Giant
    The Luger storyline where he is a heel and is defended by Sting
    80% of the show is wrestling, actual matches
    The tag division - LoD, Steiners, Harlem Heat, Public Enemy, Nasty Boys, American Males, Fire and Ice, Dick Slater and Bunkhouse Buck, Faces of Fear
    Col Robert Parker - loved his character for some reason
    Pilman, Benoit, Malenko, Guerrero
    Even Konnan is slick in this period
    Bobby Heenan
    Blokes storming the broadcast position
    The chicks - Kimberley's head lights are always on
    Some of the jobbers - Alex Wright, Disco, Brad Armstrong, they're all booked to either have a character or made to look like a good wrestler - you could probably get a push going for them
    Heel Jimmy Hart

    Negatives

    Don't book heel v heel. General rule is you need a face so the fans know who to cheer.
    Johnny B Badd and Brian Pilman left
    Hacksaw Jim Duggan being given somewhat of a push
    Some of the rubbish dishes up and pushed to the moon from the Dungeon of Doom - One Man Gang is a decent jobber to the stars but not much more, Shark god bless him, Lochness Monster god bless him, The Yetaaaaiii
    Ed Leslie - kept getting pushed, he was great as Brutus but he's nothing without that gimmick
    World Titld matches playing second fiddle to Hogan
    The Monster Truck match - stoopid
    The Doomsday Cage match - I just don't get it
    Storylines that go nowhere - Konnan and Eddy have a great PPV match, Eddie goes for a leap frog and his baby maker hits Konnans head and he claims a low blow. Stoopid really because it's clearly accidental and both are faces but they then never went to a rematch

    Anyone else been watching any of this? $9.99 per month, sooo worth it
     
  2. Shaun Hewitt

    Shaun Hewitt First Grade

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    When did you start watching from? (eg which time period did you begin watching)
    I havnt signed up for network, but am interested.
    Do they have every Nitro/Thunder and PPV available to stream?
     
  3. Iafeta

    Iafeta Referee

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    So they have every Nitro since the first one. Thunder..
    Not yet but I'd imagine eventually they will. They have every PPV too.

    I'm at May 27 1996 now, and started with the first Nitro which was in 1995.
     
  4. Eelementary

    Eelementary Immortal

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    I haven't watched the WCW yet, but I've been watching The Monday Night War, abd it's so fascinating.

    I just finished the episode where The Rock became the company's biggest star.

    It's really an interesting series.

    And Bischoff - what a brain he had!
     
  5. Iafeta

    Iafeta Referee

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    I agree, he had a great mind. But why book heel v heel? Who are the fans meant to be invested in?
     
  6. Eelementary

    Eelementary Immortal

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    Don't get me wrong - he came up with some absolute clangers.

    And he displayed some questionable ethics (for example, reading out the Raw results on Nitro to ruin the WWF's ratings).

    But his passion for the industry, and overall ability to create something tangible, certainly made for an interesting time.

    I reckon after the Monday Night War series, I'll start watching Nitro - that'll bring me back!
     
  7. Iafeta

    Iafeta Referee

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    I'd read out the results too. It's WWF cutting costs and mass taping shows or their inability to earn a live TV slot that caused them to show taped episodes. WCW took that risk so they should exploit it.

    One thing that saddens me - how many of those performers are now gone. Off the top of my head Hawk, Rocco Rock, Johnny Grunge, John Tenta, Miss Elizabeth, Randy Savage, Chris Benoit, Woman, Renegade, Eddie Guerrero, Lochness Monster, Dusty Rhodes, Brian Pilman, Big Bubba, Stagger Lee Marshall, Sister Sherri, Brad Armstrong, and so many of the refs too... I don't know why the refs went so young.
     
  8. Shaun Hewitt

    Shaun Hewitt First Grade

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    Lee Marshall is gone??!? Dang it

    Seen the state of Booby Heenan? He is barely recognizable. I saw a youtube clip of him at a wrestling convention, damn near broke my heart

    EDIT - Don't forget Bulldog, although his run in wCw could have been so much more. The 'trapdoor injury' pretty much ruined him. Still could have been booked better when used.
     
  9. Hawkins

    Hawkins Juniors

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    I'm watching saturday nights main events in order backwards.

    Being Australian I never saw them
     
  10. Iafeta

    Iafeta Referee

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    Yep, Stagger Lee passed away a couple of years ago. Yeah, I didn't include Davey Boy, he comes in late 1997 from memory and I haven't got there yet. Obviously it gets worse as time goes on, Curt Hennig, Rick Rude et al also are sadly gone. Vader is also really sick, and I was listening to the Ric Flair podcast, didn't realise this but Harley Race is confined to a nursing home now.

    With Bobby Heenan, his commentary was awesome, hillarious. One night there there's a fugly dude in the crowd, he goes "I wonder how much he charges to haunt children's parties?"

    It'd be great if they ever got to the level of having WCW Saturday Night or even the likes of WCW Main Event or International. In about '96-'97 in NZ all you could get was WCW International. I used to think Public Enemy were the best thing since sliced bread, same as High Voltage, because teams like that were regularly main eventing that show and dominating. I'd like to see it just once just to see how it holds up, I can't remember too much about it. Then it was awesome, in '98 we started getting Nitro. We got it like 3 months delayed for some reason, but it was still top draw. Then the internet starts taking off, and I remember going to school and saying things like Sting is now in the nWo, and they'd all be like no way man, he was taking them down on TV on Friday night... haha.
     
  11. Valheru

    Valheru Bench

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    Lol i remember the days. WWF was on a similar delay. I believe it was because they lined up the tv shows with the video releases of the ppv i.e. it was a 3 month delay because a ppv from jan for example would land at video stores in march/april.

    Of course the Internet caught up and fox changed their schedule and i even remember them showing a few ppvs on the main sports channel, summerslam 98 stands out. I can't remember what they did with nitro at that point as it was on some long ago defunct channel.
     
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  12. Iafeta

    Iafeta Referee

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    VHS! Oh man I rented a ton of WWF PPVs. Especially the ones from the late 80s.

    Gee WCW was unstable with its commentators. Since 95 I remember it as McMichael, Bischoff, Heenan, Zbysko, Schiavone, Tenay, Marshall, Rhodes, Hudson, Madden... as much as I love the American Dream, he was horrific as a commentator. His lack of calling ability was only covered by the hilarity of Bobby Heenan ribbing him for it.
     
  13. Valheru

    Valheru Bench

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    Yeah Schiavone and Tenay were mainstays but I think Tenay was exclusive to Thunder towards the end. You are right about Dusty, no one had a clue what he was saying and Heenan was great throughout although you can tell that he just didn't care in 1999. Those other 2 clowns they got in for 2000 were horrific.

    By the end of 2000/2001 letting WCW die was like an act of kindness. The fall from grace from the end of 1998 until end of 1999 was something to behold. In hindsight, I wish someone had saved it, the industry hasn't been the same since with a lack of competition.
     
  14. Iafeta

    Iafeta Referee

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    The best debate in wrestling... who killed WCW. Got to say I'm revising my views. I think going from 2 to 3 hours meant they had to fill the show with filler vignettes and non wrestling non funny comedy, and Vince Russo having such a gimmicky approach with crash TV which did not appeal to their audiences. Or the amount of times where they basically told their fans that what they saw previously meant nothing when they held up championships etc .... frustrating. 1996 where I'm watching, aside from the Dungeon of Doom and heel v heel action is for the most part really good, well told storybook wrestling.
     
  15. Big Pete

    Big Pete Referee

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    I love this thread, Pro Wrestling had a charm to it that's sorely lacking in today's product.

    What stands out about me at this time, is that Eric knew how to get behind an angle. When The Outsiders first hit the scene, they'd only be on-screen for ten minutes, but you'd never hear the end of it. They didn't have to follow the formula of cutting twenty minute in-ring promos and then working a 15 minute main event week in week out, they'd just pop up for a segment or two and it'd be impactful.

    Then there's the presentation. From the flame motif, to the ESPN-style camera techniques, even to the way they'd replay the victors entrance after they'd win a match was an effective way to book-end a segment.

    How did you find going from watching Nitro to watching the PPVs, feta? At times, it felt like I was watching two different shows. It all started to make sense when I came across some old Saturday Night videos. Until Nitro goes to two hours, it was more or less it's own island, with Saturday Night serving as the show where angles developed.
     
  16. Valheru

    Valheru Bench

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    What lead to WCW's downfall and what ultimately killed WCW, although intrinsically linked are two very different questions.

    For the former there are many reasons, which you have partly covered. What ultimately killed WCW though was the fact time warner didn't want wrestling on their channels, this meant there was no TV contract as part of the sale price and it was worthless to anyone apart from Vince who wanted the tape library.

    Bischoff in feb 2001 lead a conglomerate that was front runner to buy the joint until he found out about the TV deal. He has stated on multiple occassions that he feels WCW would still be around today if the tv deal was part of the purchase price...
     
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  17. Eelementary

    Eelementary Immortal

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    What killed WCW? Imo, the nWo.
     
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  18. Iafeta

    Iafeta Referee

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    Yep. Agree the TV situation fizzled them. But man their product was trash for a couple of years. I was a hardcore fan and then I could just no longer watch it was so different to what had been a really good formula.
     
  19. Iafeta

    Iafeta Referee

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    It's part of it. It's the same to me as having joke World Champs where you treat the big belt as nothing but a prop, or constantly telling fans that what they watched before no longer matters because that title is now vacant. Or having heel v heels. The job is to suspend belief and give fans a reason to be invested in the show. The nWo I think carries on too long and even with the Wolfpack enveloping the top faces like Sting and Luger who had been fighting the nWo to hell and back, to me the nWo brand got so big it lacked competition. Sad, because if it starts breaking up in say early 98 it had done a good job in building up DDP as an example, and there was many other ways to head with Hart arriving and Goldberg exploding. Goldberg wrestled tacky matches instead of franchising the show because the spotlight had to remain on Hollywood in particular.
     
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  20. Eelementary

    Eelementary Immortal

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    Pretty much to my thoughts.

    I mean, when you have wrestlers actively jumping ship because they're sick of being booked to get their arses kicked by the nWo every week, then as a promotion, you have issues.

    The nWo storyline was fresh and interesting, but WCW milked it too far, abd people lost interest.

    Add Hogan et al using their creative controls to push their own agendas, and the venture was in big trouble.
     
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