Who Is Your Favourite Panther?

[mxlegend99]

Wow.. this is getting ridiculous, MX your opinion of what he did is one thing.

The offence he committed, according to law, is not Attempted Murder. It’s not that hard to understand.

If old mate had of died, he would have been charge with Man Slaughter, not murder.

You are wrong. Move on.

Bullshit. He would have been charged with murder. His death wouldnt have been accidental.

 

[Luke Bowden]

Bullshit. He would have been charged with murder. His death wouldnt have been sccidrntal.

Mate I really don’t want to discuss this shit on a footy discussion forum, but a death without motive or intention, caused by another person is not murder.

All he has to say is “your honour, we were in a fight, I was so angry, I wanted to bash the crap out of him, but I certainly didn’t want to kill him! I didn’t even really know him!, why would I want to kill him?”

 

[Luke Bowden]

He would have been charged with Attempted Murder. It’s not Hollywood or the USA.

 

[OldPanther]

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sp...28c2a74d7?sv=b3903a1442c5bc085bbcedf0b0de45d3

I seriously cant believe anyone would defend those sctions. Or compare them to MG.

MG was a thug who loved to biff. Packer continued to punch into and then stomp on a guys head who he had already knocked out.

Its pure luck the guy is still alive.

Yeah no that's definitely trying to kill someone.

 

[Luke Bowden]

Yeah no that's definitely trying to kill someone.

As any defence half decent defence lawyer would say.
“Prove it” beyond all reasonable doubt.

 

[mxlegend99]

Wrong

Move on

Now that's your opinion.

Mate I really don’t want to discuss this shit on a footy discussion forum, but a death without motive or intention, caused by another person is not murder.

All he has to say is “your honour, we were in a fight, I was so angry, I wanted to bash the crap out of him, but I certainly didn’t want to kill him! I didn’t even really know him!, why would I want to kill him?”

The guy was out cold on the ground. After having been punched and hitting his head on the ground. If that killed him its manslaughter.

Attacking someone unable to defend themselves is not an accident though the law might let him get away with it to make sure the charge sticks.

Punching and kicking an unconscious man is just an honest mistake apparently. No intent at all.

 

[mxlegend99]

As any defence half decent defence lawyer would say.
“Prove it” beyond all reasonable doubt.

We're not arguing that.

People get away with shit all the time. If i speed and dont get caught i was still speeding. If i stole something and didnt get caught i am still a thief. If i violently bash someone and kill them I am a murderer regardless of whether they are able to charge me with it or not.

Our laws are simply more lenient than most countries. In most areas anyway. What a person is charged with though does not mean that's all they were guilty of.

Hell in some cases innocent people get charged even. In many more people get away with it. The dystrms not perfect.no system ever could be.

 

[Luke Bowden]

We're not arguing that.

People get away with shit all the time. If i speed and dont get caught i was still speeding. If i stole something and didnt get caught i am still a thief. If i violently bash someone and kill them I am a murderer regardless of whether they are able to charge me with it or not.

Our laws are simply more lenient than most countries. In most areas anyway. What a person is charged with though does not mean that's all they were guilty of.

Hell in some cases innocent people get charged even. In many more people get away with it. The dystrms not perfect.no system ever could be.

We are also not arguing about the legal system, we are arguing about what offence he committed and it was Assault - GBH with aggravating factors.

You say he was trying to kill him.

I say he was trying to hurt him really badly, but not kill him.

Why are you right and am not?

 

[mxlegend99]

We are also not arguing about the legal system, we are arguing about what offence he committed and it was Assault - GBH with aggravating factors.

You say he was trying to kill him.

I say he was trying to hurt him really badly, but not kill him.

Why are you right and am not?

He was charged with that offence. That doesn't mean he wasn't guilty of a worse offense.

At the end of the day no one knows what he was thinking... or if he is even capable of thought. But i believe that punching into and stomping on an unconscious mans head should be attempted murder.

At any rate. This all started when Mark Geyer picking fist fights in pubs was compared to Packer stomping a guys head into the pavement.

He was never the brightest bloke. But I guarantee he would never punch into an unconscious man and try stomping on his head... as any reasonable person would fear killing a person in those circumstances.

Im 30kg lighter than Packer and I would fear the damage i could cause to someone in those circumstances. And good god I would be certain I would die if that were done to me. Especially by a guy that size. No idea how big his victim was though.

 

[mxlegend99]

I didnt mean to kill him. I just wanted to f**k him up. surely i csnt be the only one thinking of this scene while discussing this.

 

[franklin2323]

Why would the police not go for attempted murder then? It was a fight that got out of hand

 

[ACTPanthers]

To prove intent, you'd need to be inside the mind of Packer at the time... Which you can never do. Or you can prove that it was premeditated with evidence that he had planned it days/weeks/months before hand.

So to say it's attempted murder is fundamentally wrong because you can't know for 100% certain that it was his intent to kill him. Any argument to say it was is just opinion and holds absolutely no weight whatsoever. You may say "Well obviously he meant to kill him, he stomped on his head" which is fine, but you need to understand that is YOUR opinion which doesn't make it fact. Unless you could be inside his head at the time of the incident, which you can't, you cannot say, with 100% certainty, that it was his intent to kill him.

 

[Luke Bowden]

Ok MX you are clearly struggling with this and don't appear to be willing to let it go, so I will entertain it for a bit longer.

Answer me this:

2 UFC fighters are going at it. One gets knocked out cold and falls to the ground, the 2nd fighter jumps on top and punches the unconscious man 4 more times before the ref can stop it.

Unfortunately the fighter dies as a result of the incident.

Do you think the 2nd fighter should be charged with Murder?

 

[mxlegend99]

To prove intent, you'd need to be inside the mind of Packer at the time... Which you can never do. Or you can prove that it was premeditated with evidence that he had planned it days/weeks/months before hand.

So to say it's attempted murder is fundamentally wrong because you can't know for 100% certain that it was his intent to kill him. Any argument to say it was is just opinion and holds absolutely no weight whatsoever. You may say "Well obviously he meant to kill him, he stomped on his head" which is fine, but you need to understand that is YOUR opinion which doesn't make it fact. Unless you could be inside his head at the time of the incident, which you can't, you cannot say, with 100% certainty, that it was his intent to kill him.

My reasoning is what other possible reason is there to do that?

He punched him and he fell and hit his head on the ground. Fight over. Packer continued punching him in the head and then stomped on his head.

Is it possible to know what he was thinking? No. But is there any possible reason to do that other than to kill someone?

 

[mxlegend99]

Ok MX you are clearly struggling with this and don't appear to be willing to let it go, so I will entertain it for a bit longer.

Answer me this:

2 UFC fighters are going at it. One gets knocked out cold and falls to the ground, the 2nd fighter jumps on top and punches the unconscious man 4 more times before the ref can stop it.

Unfortunately the fighter dies as a result of the incident.

Do you think the 2nd fighter should be charged with Murder?

Why is he only punching him and not stomping on his head while he's unconscious?

 

[Luke Bowden]

Why is he only punching him and not stomping on his head while he's unconscious?

Ohh right! Shit I must have missed that point of law where it says that if you use your foot and not two clenched fists, it's murder!..

Just answer the question.

 

[mxlegend99]

Ok MX you are clearly struggling with this and don't appear to be willing to let it go, so I will entertain it for a bit longer.

Answer me this:

2 UFC fighters are going at it. One gets knocked out cold and falls to the ground, the 2nd fighter jumps on top and punches the unconscious man 4 more times before the ref can stop it.

Unfortunately the fighter dies as a result of the incident.

Do you think the 2nd fighter should be charged with Murder?

You should go and defend this guy.

https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-new...omping-victims-head-could-face-murder-charges

 

[mxlegend99]

Ohh right! Shit I must have missed that point of law where it says that if you use your foot and not two clenched fists, it's murder!..

Just answer the question.

The two situations are not f**king remotely close.

Why isnt the fighter stomping his head? That's what Packer did. Admittedly AFTER punching him in the head repeatedly on the ground.

Deadset. If you're going to create a fictional scenario. Why change that method of attack? A stomp has a hell of a lot more force than a punch. Its far more likely to cause death.

 

[Luke Bowden]

You should go and defend this guy.

https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-new...omping-victims-head-could-face-murder-charges

Two things, those two males are clearly not strangers, so there may well be motive and intent.

That's the US legal system, its different, so that's pointless.

It's cool that you've gone to Google though, I was waiting for that.

 

[betcats]

What a person is or isnt charged of does not mean they were or weren't trying to do something.

What is proven true in a court of law is not always a fact. Plenty of innocent people have gone to prison. Plenty of guilty people have gotten away with it.

Im not saying my opinion overrides a law. Im saying him copping a lesser charge does not mean he wasnt trying to kill someone.



You're referring to what a person is charged with. I'm referring to a persons actions. His actions didn't serve any purpose other than to seriously injure or kill someone.

You're trying to compare thrm to MG having fist fights for f**k sake. MG was a thug and I said as much. But theres a f**king world of difference between getting into fist fights (whether you start them or not) and knocking a guy out and stomping his head into the pavement.



As it said its freak f**king luck. Noyhing more. You're seriously trying to suggest having a 120kg athlete stomp on an unconscious guys head is not a risk of permanent or serious damage if not death?

People have died from getting hit and falling and hitting their head on the pavement. This guy had that happen... was laying on the ground not moving and then had his head stomped on. His head was between concrete and a 120kg athletes foot.

But yeah... death was never a possible outcome. Because it didnt happen there was never a chance it could have.




As I've said before. Name onr possible reason to stomp a guys head onto the pavement after a fight is over? Or ever during a fight.

Packer had already knocked him out. The fight was over by any reasonable persons standards. Yet he stomped his head into the ground for good measure.

There is absolutely nothing in this comment that suggest it was attempted murder lol wtf I’m done arguing. This 120kg beast stomped so hard on an unconscious blokes head but it barely left a mark. It doesn’t even make sense.