WWE Battleground

[Misanthrope]

The brand split wouldn't work these days.

...in fact it didn't really work back then either.

However with Raw at 3 hours, the WWE can't afford to spread talent evenly and Smackdown would still be treated as a B show instead of a viable alternative.

The fact it wouldn't work these days is a pretty sad indictment of the WWE's inability to make new stars. They've created plenty, only to cut the legs out from under them and make them perennial upper midcarders/jobbers to the stars.

I fear the worst for Owens after seeing Raw. He was relegated to playing fodder in the pull apart brawl. Sure, he also was in the main event, but it's rare you see a guy the company is high on playing extra in the background to a brawl.

 

[Scott Gourley's Lovechild]

WWE today is much like the roster split in the past. The best way to become a name back then was to be on SmackDown, as you didn't gain popularity just to be fed to guys like HHH or Michaels. If Cena had been on Raw full time prior to beating Big Show for the US Title I doubt he would be where he is today. The only guys I can think of who were built on Raw were Edge (due to him holding the MITB and being hot after his feud with Matt Hardy) and Batista + Orton (coming out of Evolution being the hottest thing in wrestling).

To become champion today, you need to avoid being fed to Cena early (Del Rio, Rollins, etc)

Look at the names WWE has built since then, and where they started pre brand unification.

Cena - SmackDown
JBL - SmackDown
Eddie Guerrero - SmackDown
Chris Benoit - SmackDown (won the Raw title, but gained his popularity on the blue side)
Batista - Raw
Randy Orton - Raw
Edge - Raw
Rob Van Dam - ECW
Jeff Hardy - SmackDown
Rey Mysterio - SmackDown
Christian - SmackDown
CM Punk - ECW
Dolph Ziggler - SmackDown

 

[Misanthrope]

I'd love to see it again. Sure, it meant less star studded PPVs, but would you really complain about not seeing Orton v Sheamus XVII? Or would you complain seeing guys like Barrett, Cesaro etc in meaningful, established feuds?

 

[Big Pete]

The problem is Mis, you keep arguing from the perspective of ideals, not reality.

Endless rematches have been a staple of the WWF since the Attitude era. How many iterations of Taker/Austin did we get? HHH/Rock? Foley/Rock? It's just what they do.

My point isn't to shoot down all your ideas, rather they're all just band-aid solutions to bigger problems.

 

[Misanthrope]

The problem is Mis, you keep arguing from the perspective of ideals, not reality.

Endless rematches have been a staple of the WWF since the Attitude era. How many iterations of Taker/Austin did we get? HHH/Rock? Foley/Rock? It's just what they do.

My point isn't to shoot down all your ideas, rather they're all just band-aid solutions to bigger problems.

There's a gulf of difference between the matches you list and the matches we get between Sheamus/Orton, Ziggler/Sheamus, Cena/Orton over and over and over again. You're using established and storied rivalries in comparison to matches they just get pedaled out whenever they need to get the guys on the card.

And 'it's just what they do' would be fine if business was booming, but it isn't and hasn't been. A part of that is an overall sense of apathy with the industry in general (although it hasn't stopped Lucha Underground from quickly carving out a niche), but a big part of it is that Vince is (as you say) stuck in his ways. There's a reason that the Triple H helmed NXT is hugely popular and well liked, while the Vince McMahon helmed WWE isn't exactly setting the world afire.

Word out of the company is that Undertaker has been brought back into action for SummerSlam because (surprise surprise) the WWE isn't doing as well financially as it should be. The WWE Network isn't holding subscribers like it should and it's evidening itself in the thousand 'sign back up for your free month' emails that go out everytime a PPV is coming up.

 

[Big Pete]

My point is, a brand split isn't going to magically fix the WWE's habit of booking rematches. It's what they've been doing since 1998 and were even doing during the brand split era except you got two loads of the same matches.

A gulf of difference though? Debatable. A lot of those matches wore out their welcome, particularly Rock/Foley & Taker/Austin. Different time, different era but the matches were hardly desirable which is why they leaned more on raunchiness, stunts and catchphrases.

 

[Bulldog Force]

Ok, so I created this thread to keep all the BG talk out of the Superthread. I haven't posted anything in this thread since I created it and I haven't read any other post... I scrolled straight to the bottom of the page to type this. I have not yet watched BG, but I know one thing that happened and that's the UT returns. Now I remember saying that I predicted Lesnar will not win, and the SR something scrambles out of BG like a rat and keeps the title. I'm assuming what happens is that UT interferes and something pans out that results in SR keeping it. I wouldn't be surprised if UT returns to get vengeance on what happened at WM last year. Who knows. Anyway... will be interesting to quote this post once I finally watch it :lol:

 

[Big Pete]

Look at the names WWE has built since then, and where they started pre brand unification.

Cena - SmackDown
JBL - SmackDown
Eddie Guerrero - SmackDown
Chris Benoit - SmackDown (won the Raw title, but gained his popularity on the blue side)
Batista - Raw
Randy Orton - Raw
Edge - Raw
Rob Van Dam - ECW
Jeff Hardy - SmackDown
Rey Mysterio - SmackDown
Christian - SmackDown
CM Punk - ECW
Dolph Ziggler - SmackDown

Where they started probably isn't the best measure when you consider the likes of Guerrero, Batista, Edge, RVD, Hardy, Ziggler started on opposite sides. Even a guy like Benoit who was initially drafted to SmackDown initially, made his first appearance on the Raw brand as one of Flair's guys.

But you're right, SmackDown made far more stars than Raw.

Even guys who weren't exactly main event material, were given a far greater opportunity to succeed on SmackDown than they would have been given on Raw. Guys like A-Train, Tajiri and Matt Hardy v1.0 come straight to mind.

Then you have guys like Orton who had all tools to get over as a superstar yet pales in comparison to his peers, like John Cena, who quite honestly aren't as naturally gifted as him. I believe a large part of that was the way his championship push was handled and all his subsequent runs.

So even then, Raw didn't impress me and was quite honestly a drag to watch which is a shame because that's what most Australians had to settle with back during that transitional phase between Dial-Up and Broadband.

 

[Bulldog Force]

Ok, so I created this thread to keep all the BG talk out of the Superthread. I haven't posted anything in this thread since I created it and I haven't read any other post... I scrolled straight to the bottom of the page to type this. I have not yet watched BG, but I know one thing that happened and that's the UT returns. Now I remember saying that I predicted Lesnar will not win, and the SR something scrambles out of BG like a rat and keeps the title. I'm assuming what happens is that UT interferes and something pans out that results in SR keeping it. I wouldn't be surprised if UT returns to get vengeance on what happened at WM last year. Who knows. Anyway... will be interesting to quote this post once I finally watch it :lol:

What do you know... hit the nail on the head :lol:

 

[Valheru]

I agree that a full brand split probably wouldn’t work with a 3 hour RAW.

There are a lot of things they can do IMO though to mimic some of the features of the brand split. The first, as Pete said, is to build RAW and Smackdown each week around different angles so the content seems fresh and Smackdown doesn’t seem like it is the modern day Sunday night heat. As an example you could have RAW built around Undertaker/Lesnar this week and Smackdown built around Owens/Cesaro or something like that. Keep this happening on a regular rotating basis and you give the fans a reason to watch both shows.

The other thing they can do is be more selective about what they put on the monthly PPVs. In this day and age where the vast majority of us are either using torrents or paying $10 a month to watch PPVs, there is no need for every top star to feature at every PPV (the big 4 aside). Why not have a B grade PPV built around an intercontinental title defence or something like that. You don’t necessarily have to have the world title defended every month, you can further the angle leading into a big PPV in a number of ways on a B ppv whether it be a tag match, a number 1 contenders match or similar. This approach was used fairly effectively in the early IYH days.

 

[Bulldog Force]

Raw has been shit ever since moving to 3 hours. It should have contained 2 extra matches, 2 good quality, lengthy matches, but no, it's instead turned into a 3 hour bore-fest which is why I simply watch the highlight on the WWE YouTube channel.

 

[Bulldog Force]

The brand split wouldn't work these days.

...in fact it didn't really work back then either.

However with Raw at 3 hours, the WWE can't afford to spread talent evenly and Smackdown would still be treated as a B show instead of a viable alternative.

They can make it relevant if Raw reverts back to 2 hours. Heck they've got so much coverage now with the WWE network and others that they can still get more from the Network than a 4 or 5 hour episode of Raw.

 

[Misanthrope]

Three hour Raw is woeful.

 

[alien]

Cena vs Owens was the best match again

their first match was very good, their second match even better. i think their third match was the best of the lot. i hope they have a fourth match at the next ppv, with owens winning the u.s. title

i enjoyed battleground. i was surprised to see the undertaker come back. maybe they'll say it was because on raw, heyman was bragging to kane about brock breaking taker's wm streak, and also because brock severely injured kane on raw too, and it pissed him off because they are brothers. maybe kane will leave the authority and team up with taker. i haven't watched this week's raw yet, so maybe it was all explained, lol.

 

[alien]

At least they are seemingly reforming the Wyatt Family.

i don't know why they broke them up to begin with. they work so well together. rowan and harper should stay as a tag team though. they are very good. rowan is injured at the moment though. i hope the rumours of bo dallas joining the wyatt family are false. . .

p.s. alien's "crystal ball" has shown sting coming back soon, and that wm next year will have lesnar v taker, but this time taker winning. stone cold will be at wm next year too, but maybe not as a wrestler. . .

 

[Misanthrope]

i don't know why they broke them up to begin with. they work so well together. rowan and harper should stay as a tag team though. they are very good. rowan is injured at the moment though. i hope the rumours of bo dallas joining the wyatt family are false. . .

p.s. alien's "crystal ball" has shown sting coming back soon, and that wm next year will have lesnar v taker, but this time taker winning. stone cold will be at wm next year too, but maybe not as a wrestler. . .

They broke them up for the same reason they broke up Nexus and Shield too early - because f**k you.

 

[Bulldog Force]

i don't know why they broke them up to begin with. they work so well together. rowan and harper should stay as a tag team though. they are very good. rowan is injured at the moment though. i hope the rumours of bo dallas joining the wyatt family are false. . .

p.s. alien's "crystal ball" has shown sting coming back soon, and that wm next year will have lesnar v taker, but this time taker winning. stone cold will be at wm next year too, but maybe not as a wrestler. . .

Stone Cold and The Rock are at Mania every year... just not as wrestlers.

They broke them up for the same reason they broke up Nexus and Shield too early - because f**k you.

I think the time for the shield was up - over a year of dominance.

 

[Bulldog Force]

BTW where to now for the World Title?

 

[redvscotty]

I don't care if Raw is 2 or 3 hours, but I do care that Raw always ends with a shitty 6 man tag match.

FFS It's SHITHOUSE! 1 on 1 and make them bash each other.

 

[alien]

Stone Cold and The Rock are at Mania every year... just not as wrestlers.

I am hoping Austin actually comes back a month or so before Wrestlemania to have a rivalry with someone and has a match with them at Wrestlemania. It's in his home state, and I think that would be awesome, but it probably won't happen.