Cattle or Coach?

[Slippery Morris]

Do you think Dragons are struggling due to cattle, Coach or both?

Personally I think the cattle is not that bad and better than teams that are performing better than us. The cattle is just not being used properly. The coaching staff look like they are just persisting on Plan A with no Plan B. They are becoming so predictable it is not funny. They have no confidence in their attack and look absolutely lost when they are in the opposition 20? Widdop is a huge contributor because he gets his hands most of teh time on the ball on the last and does nothing but that is something that should have been addressed ages ago. Losing Benji is a big loss but even when he is on, it looks like he is just sitting back and letting Widdop run the show because he has no choice. He is playing for a contract and going against the coach won't help his cause so he sits back and follows the game plan which is rubbish.

 

[Slippery Morris]

Listening to the 5th and Last podcast, the guys are amazed and the different styles of footy played by the 2 clubs. One has over 200+ points in attack and in top 4 and the other is playing dull, negative style footy sitting 11th.

 

[TruSaint]

I think its both, but more-so Mary.

The team on paper looks like a top 8 side, but our spine this year, apart from Dugan, has either been injured ( Benji ), or very patchy, Gaz and Rein.

We lack 1 more game breaker in the backline. Our forwards I think , at full strength, are definitely competitive against any side with Packer getting better by the game, Friz, and Masa to come into the side.

Our game plan , or lack there of is what worries me the most.

 

[muzby]

mmm... steak..

 

[giboz71]

I think its both, but more-so Mary.

The team on paper looks like a top 8 side, but our spine this year, apart from Dugan, has either been injured ( Benji ), or very patchy, Gaz and Rein.

We lack 1 more game breaker in the backline. Our forwards I think , at full strength, are definitely competitive against any side with Packer getting better by the game, Friz, and Masa to come into the side.

Our game plan , or lack there of is what worries me the most.

Yep agree with that. Can't have one without the other.

The Titans are an example of a good coach with a limited squad, while at the Warriors, its the other way around. Bottom line is, neither will challenge for the comp this year.

And the fortunes of Robinson at the Roosters and Flanagan at the Sharks have been highly dependant on what's happened to their squads. Roosters lost a heap of stars this year, while the Sharks gained plenty. Don't think their ability to coach has changed.

 

[Minh]

I think both, Mary needs to be accountable for instilling a negative style of footy. Our roster is ok but missing Masoe, Benji and Thommo for large parts of the year doesn't help. We are weak on the flanks on the wing, Nightingale is still very good but our KFFL and Peter M would not make any other NRL starting team on the wing, sorry to say even though KFFL has finished some good tries, he's a liability in defense and is not tall enough so he is also a liability under the high ball too.

 

[TruSaint]

Yep agree with that. Can't have one without the other.

The Titans are an example of a good coach with a limited squad, while at the Warriors, its the other way around. Bottom line is, neither will challenge for the comp this year.

And the fortunes of Robinson at the Roosters and Flanagan at the Sharks have been highly dependant on what's happened to their squads. Roosters lost a heap of stars this year, while the Sharks gained plenty. Don't think their ability to coach has changed.

Its no secret Giboz that the most successful sides over the years are those with minimal changes to their core squad. In particular, 1, 6, 7 and 9.

Overall players used is often a good gauge.

We lack 1 more try scorer in the backline, like Minh, Im unsure of KFFL. Happy with Aitken, Duges , Flo and I keep waiting for Lafai to shine.

Mary is on borrowed time if he cant show a desire to alter his attacking structure, which is basically, dummy half runs ( 1st in the nrl ), and one our passes until the 5th.

 

[Uplifting]

To me it looks like the players are trying their hearts out.

 

[TruSaint]

To me it looks like the players are trying their hearts out.

I dont doubt that at all.

It seems though that they are restricted by Marys game plan, thus the frustration.

PS welcome to the forum.

 

[Totaldragonfan]

I think the biggest problem is the cattle as outlined at almost every opinion in this forum. If the team had better performing halves able to organise and take on defence we would perform much better. Our forward pack, centers and fullback are performing well overall but the halves and hooker kill attacking momentum by taking poor low percentage options. If we have a running 5/8, a good organising 1/2 and a hooker who delivered good service from dummy half and better kicking options the results would be chalk and cheese to what they are currently. IMHO anyway.

 

[BrissyRedV]

I would say both but mainly Mary. The lack of structures, players in motion etc. all come down to the coach and the way they train. As for the cattle, I think we are missing one maybe two play makers. What makes the best spines the best is they have at least 3 players that have the ability to produce plays and control games. If one is having an off night, the others take up the slack. It also means less predictability in who the ball will go too. The Cowboys for example have 4 quality players able to produce attacking kicks and plays. It also helps they have others in motion good lines as well.

 

[TruSaint]

Another glaring omission for me, is our support play.

How many times have I seen a half break, a line break, and have to look on the edges of the screen for another Red V jersey?

I think, its because of our " conservative " approach to attack that players almost instinctively think we will die with the ball. " Play safe " ... Play not to lose ". Players dont all of a sudden lose this ability, as it's taught at under 7's, but we are very poor in this department.

 

[grouch]

Aside from the hooker, I think if a good coach took over our squad right now he would be rubbing his hands together with glee at the potential before him.

A strong, young forward pack with some real strike backrowers. If the coach had cap money to spare he'd be chasing a dummy half and a skilful ballplaying backrower

A decent backline, again mostly young, with some real talent within it. Might recruit some more speed (right dino?)

A five-eighth and fullback who have both played at the highest level and are theoretically in the prime of their careers, together with a seasoned, experienced 7 who may be worth keeping to anchor the spine - at the right price. Otherwise recruit a new half.

Plus a rich junior nursery that will continue to yield fruit - if the right fruit are chosen.

Yep. Rubbing hands together with glee at the heights he'll be taking this squad.

Instead we're stuck in a quicksand of McGregor mediocrity

 

[JohnnoMcJohnno]

Cattle. A better coach would have the team going better, no doubt, but how many of our players would be wanted by other clubs?

If you look at the forwards, Rein seems to be in demand or at least his name gets linked with other clubs every so often. If Packer, Frizzel or Thompson was on the market they would get offers, and maybe Cooper. The rest are just tradesmen making up the numbers.

In the backs, Benji has been offered $300k which is pretty low for a half. Dugan and Aitken could find another club, but I doubt there would be much interest in any of the others, due to age (Nighty) or averageness (everyone else).

So that's maybe 7 out of the 17 starters that would attract something over the minimum wage for their respective position.

 

[Objective View]

To me it looks like the players are trying their hearts out.

Thanks Minh.

Straight Shooter

 

[grouch]

Cattle. A better coach would have the team going better, no doubt, but how many of our players would be wanted by other clubs?

If you look at the forwards, Rein seems to be in demand or at least his name gets linked with other clubs every so often. If Packer, Frizzel or Thompson was on the market they would get offers, and maybe Cooper. The rest are just tradesmen making up the numbers.

In the backs, Benji has been offered $300k which is pretty low for a half. Dugan and Aitken could find another club, but I doubt there would be much interest in any of the others, due to age (Nighty) or averageness (everyone else).

So that's maybe 7 out of the 17 starters that would attract something over the minimum wage for their respective position.

Have you been watching teams other than the Dragons this year? The lack of quality talent across the comp is the main reason we're not running closer to last

 

[giboz71]

I've been watching the Sharks highlights the last few weeks, and can't believe the transformation of their attack. Thy way the ball zings from their halves to their wingers is poetry in motion. We can only dream of backline play like that. The Cows and Broncos were the benchmark when it came to backline play and the Sharks have now joined them.

Now they were always a boring, grinding side like we are now, but they have been transformed.

How did this happen?

Either Flanagan (and Price) magically learned how to coach attacking football, or finally he has the players (Townsend, Maloney, Bird, Barba, Holmes) that can execute what he was trying to achieve all along.

Reverse all the above when talking about Robinson and what is happening at the Roosters.

Answering this question will go a long way to answering the coach or cattle question.

 

[JohnnoMcJohnno]

Have you been watching teams other than the Dragons this year? The lack of quality talent across the comp is the main reason we're not running closer to last

I watch all the Dragons games. Must admit every team we have beaten and some we haven't, haven't looked too flash. That doesn't invalidate my point however - I don't think many of our team would be sought after by other clubs.

 

[grouch]

I watch all the Dragons games. Must admit every team we have beaten and some we haven't, haven't looked too flash. That doesn't invalidate my point however - I don't think many of our team would be sought after by other clubs.

I think they would. Coaches would see the talent beneath the bad coaching and pick them up. Certain coaches out there are masters at it

 

[True_Believer]

Another glaring omission for me, is our support play.

How many times have I seen a half break, a line break, and have to look on the edges of the screen for another Red V jersey?

I think, its because of our " conservative " approach to attack that players almost instinctively think we will die with the ball. " Play safe " ... Play not to lose ". Players dont all of a sudden lose this ability, as it's taught at under 7's, but we are very poor in this department.

Tru, this is spot on. You look at when Benji or Gareth work sideways looking for support - there is rarely any and even if there is, they have minimal impact because they are all flat in attack and standing still when they get the ball. Why? Because they are not expecting that play. They are expecting the 1 out run or the pass to them along the line to be used as a battering ram.