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My team for round 1

RufusRex

Post Whore
Messages
65,497
There is a difference between structural issues and skill issues. Kicking into legs consistently is not a structural issue
 

possm

Coach
Messages
16,739
It is rightly so that this forum is a place where members can voice their opinion. We just ignore the poor manner in which Widdop, Lafai and Aitken played last Sunday. We are compelled to voice our disappointment or otherwise on the perceived standard of coaching Mary dished during the pre-season.

I think it in order to voice our honest opinion.
 

Dragon66

Juniors
Messages
640
I think your analysis is generally spot on but I have to disagree with you here. For a fullback Widdop is too slow, lacks evasive ability, lacks the power to bust tackles, is a poor defender and isn't even a good ball player. The one part of his game which would suit is maybe cleaning up loose balls and grubbers close to the line. Is that enough? Why do you think he would be better at fullback? Widdop has had his chance. Has had so many chances it's a black joke on us. He should be dropped and if he excels n the NSW Cup and the NRL halves are still s**t, he has a chance to be recalled.

As for Dugan, I agree but until Dufty is fit, we are better off with Aitken and Milne in the centres. A ball playing fullback is great. Like Hayne or Slater or Tedesco or Boyd or Inglis ..... or like pretty much every fullback in the competition except for Duges but remember Gerald Beale or Kyle Stanley (in the longest stretch of games he ever got through without tearing his ACL)? Both ball players and both rubbish fullbacks.

No offence, Glenn01 but there is no way that the club will be putting a $550,000 a year player in the Cutters. Just won't happen. They will persevere with him until it is to late, and once we are out of finals contention towards the end of the year they may chose to experiment for 2018. The story will be some mystery injury will have him sidelined out of the team.
So the question is - What to do with him. Leave him at 5/8, and more of the same, or find another position that he can still contribute to the team.
Dufty is our future fullback, but in my opinion it's to soon to have him and Field in the team together at this stage of their development. In several weeks when we are at the bottom of the table, then maybe.
 
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Messages
2,608
No offence, Glenn01 but there is no way that the club will be putting a $550,000 a year player in the Cutters. Just won't happen. They will persevere with him until it is to late, and once we are out of finals contention towards the end of the year they may chose to experiment for 2018. The story will be some mystery injury will have him sidelined out of the team.
So the question is - What to do with him. Leave him at 5/8, and more of the same, or find another position that he can still contribute to the team.
Dufty is our future fullback, but in my opinion it's to soon to have him and Field in the team together at this stage of their development. In several weeks when we are at the bottom of the table, then maybe.

Hello. Jamie Soward anyone?
 

BennyV

Referee
Messages
26,000
There is a difference between structural issues and skill issues. Kicking into legs consistently is not a structural issue
Then take the kicking duties off him. Change his role. You think Bellamy would see a games worth of those kicks and just allow it to continue? No - he'd either train the f**k out of him in how to kick properly, or he'd tell him not to bother grubbering at all!
 

Carlton

Juniors
Messages
1,235
All the whipping of Widdop will achieve nothing.
For some on this forum they always come up with a way to apportion blame to an individual and think the sacking or replacement of that individual will be the cure and tomorrow everything will be ok.
That behaviour is just ignoring the real issue at the top that permeates down and affects everything below it.
It was Creagh, Rein, Prior, Marketo, Dugan so and a so on now Widdop.
Beating them up is ridiculous as they are only the pawns in the chess game.
Whether they are good players or not is a separate issue, the fact is they are all players that are chosen to play 1st grade at our club and are supposed to be coached and skilled to a high level.
If they don't achieve that, then they are supposed to be dealt with, but that doesn't happen and we keep rabbiting on in here about how they survive.
They survive because they are either doing what the coaches ask of them and the coaches are happy enough with that, or our coaching staff is so hopeless it has no plans, no strategies, no idea of acceptable performance and that is because they have no ability to teach anyone anything and even less ability to analyse anything.
How many players have we had since Bennett that have excelled and been chased massively by other clubs?
Frizzell is the only real stand out, Dugan has made rep footy in an alternate position but not liked by the market at the price he wants because he hasn't really blossomed as people thought and of course some will say Bird.
Bird is an interesting case because he actually didn't have to play 1st grade under Price and/or Mc Gregor and in fact if he had been elevated to play under them his star might never have risen and his career over before it started. Lucky for him he left and yet lunatics in here keep thinking there is some incentive for him to come back. Please explain it to me what is the big attractant for him and don't tell me because he was a junior.
Drop Widdop by all means, but get it through your thick heads, no matter who replaces him under current arrangements, we will not go any better than what we do right now. No one player can fix this diabolical mess.
We may see a very temporary improvement just like when Widdop first arrived but that will quickly fade away as our useless management and coaching staff strangle the skills and initiative out of every player that has come to us since Bennett left.
For gods sake we look forward to SOO time so we can play teams that are severely weakened as we lose so few players to rep footy. How ridiculous that we make our charge (as lame as it is) for the semis during the time that other teams are depleted but then we wonder what happened to that charge as it faltered when other teams return to full strength.
Our staff are like a huge boa constrictor that slowly squeezes the life out of everything it can wrap itself around and that includes the players and the fans.
By all means continue to make comparisons why this player or that player deserves to be picked ahead of somebody else but thinking our fortune is linked to any 1 player is just plain stupid.
By the way Benny V your post on this subject in another thread excellent.

We all understand that the Board and the Coaching staff are the main problem. That doesn't mean that because of that we shouldn't voice an opinion about the team's supposed playmaker and his inability to do his job.

I don't believe that changing him will bring instant success. I think we should change him to use this year to understand what we have with players like Field/Mann
Nona. And to send the message that changes will be made to bring success.

What I don't agree with is perserving so long with a playmaker and captain who is not performing. Whether that is due to skills coached out of him or, more likely, he never had the skills required in the first place doesn't matter.
 

RufusRex

Post Whore
Messages
65,497
You take the kicking duties off him and it then becomes all about McCrone ... if you only have one kicker in the side then it is much harder to ask the defence questions. You need both 6/7 to be able to kick otherwise the defence will just load up on McCrone.
 

Carlton

Juniors
Messages
1,235
You take the kicking duties off him and it then becomes all about McCrone ... if you only have one kicker in the side then it is much harder to ask the defence questions. You need both 6/7 to be able to kick otherwise the defence will just load up on McCrone.

I think Mann has shown that he can kick.
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
18,740
We all understand that the Board and the Coaching staff are the main problem. That doesn't mean that because of that we shouldn't voice an opinion about the team's supposed playmaker and his inability to do his job.

I don't believe that changing him will bring instant success. I think we should change him to use this year to understand what we have with players like Field/Mann
Nona. And to send the message that changes will be made to bring success.

What I don't agree with is perserving so long with a playmaker and captain who is not performing. Whether that is due to skills coached out of him or, more likely, he never had the skills required in the first place doesn't matter.
I never sai you shouldn't express your opinion
I simply stated that no matter who goes into the position under the current structure they will ultimately fail
We have no set plays nor is the team well drilled to understand how to expose weakness in the opposition
Benny V gave an excellent post on this very subject
If Jai comes into 1st grade and makes a couple of boo boos as is expected he will either be dropped or told to play 1 out football with the forwards
If the sponge cake fails to rise even though you changed everything for fresh ingredients surely it must be a problem with the chef and the recipe.
We just flounder on with the same old recipe and Mary ain't no master chef.
 

possm

Coach
Messages
16,739
It seems stupid decisions are the hall-mark of Club management in recent years. If a player is out of form and having a negative influence on the success of the first grade team, of course action should be taken to correct this. Nothing has changed since last year. Mary has had all off-season to take corrective action. Mary in his wisdom deemed it not necessary to test Mann at five-eighth in the CC and instead play Widdop at 6 with no indication of any sort of change to his sub-standard performances of last season.

For Widdop it should be a move to fullback or a move to the Cutters. If he doesn't like it then he can choose to leave early.
 

Carlton

Juniors
Messages
1,235
I never sai you shouldn't express your opinion
I simply stated that no matter who goes into the position under the current structure they will ultimately fail
We have no set plays nor is the team well drilled to understand how to expose weakness in the opposition
Benny V gave an excellent post on this very subject
If Jai comes into 1st grade and makes a couple of boo boos as is expected he will either be dropped or told to play 1 out football with the forwards
If the sponge cake fails to rise even though you changed everything for fresh ingredients surely it must be a problem with the chef and the recipe.
We just flounder on with the same old recipe and Mary ain't no master chef.

OT your post said the criticism of Widdop was pointless and people should only worry about the Board/Coach, you also refer to people with an opinion as having thickheads. The tone implied that any discussion of Widdop's failures shouldn't count.

Great, analogy with the recipe, but just changing for "fresh" or new ingredients is no good if they are the wrong ingredients to start with regardless of the chef.

We have problems with the Chef (Board and Coach), recipe (game plan and coaching) and ingredients (players). The Chef and Game Plan are the two biggest issues but there is no point if the ingredients are not the right ones or the sponge cake will still fail. My opinion is that our roster is looking a lot better but with a couple of areas (especially, in the halves and backs) still in turmoil.
 

possm

Coach
Messages
16,739
I had Dufty at fullback for round one however, I don't believe he will be fit for selection. So I've decided that moving Widdop to fullback until Dufty is ready for first grade is the way to go. In this way we can see if Widdop is better suited to the fullback position and if he fails it is off to the Cutters.

By having Widdop / Dufty play fullback, Dugan can be moved to right centre and Milne move to left centre. Mann would move to 7 with Field being selected at 6.
 

BennyV

Referee
Messages
26,000
You take the kicking duties off him and it then becomes all about McCrone ... if you only have one kicker in the side then it is much harder to ask the defence questions. You need both 6/7 to be able to kick otherwise the defence will just load up on McCrone.
McInnes can also kick, but we are only talking about attacking kicks here (no issues if Widdop is still a long kicking option) and, contrary to McGregor/Widdops belief, there are other options when in the attacking zone than to kick for a repeat set. Mary's game plan has been built around numbers - get more possession, get more repeat sets, make more metres, etc. I've no doubt that Mary has instructed Widdop to grubber through if there is a chance for a repeat set. The fact that Widdop can't get through the defensive line, or that he actually follows Mary's instructions, is purely on him, however you tell him not to kick at all when attacking, let alone before 5th tackle, and that problem of kicking into defenders legs is gone.

Mary hasn't addressed it, that's on him.
 

RufusRex

Post Whore
Messages
65,497
so you are going with
1. very limited exposure in past 5 years
3. Untried left centre
4. Small experience but talented right centre
6. Inexperienced
7. Inexperienced
That'll work


We can not afford a team with Widdop/Hunt/Dugan (talking salary cap here) ... so lets make the decision now

Better is
1. Dugan (experienced and talented)
2. Macdonald left - (experienced and talented)
3. Mann left (moderate experience and talented)
4. Milne right (moderate expereience some ability)
5. Nightingale right (very experienced)
6. Field (inexperienced and talented)
7. McCrone (experienced and solid without brilliance)

That backline will
Move the team around the paddock capably - the forward structure and organisaiton will be effective
Will deliver good early ball to Dugan or Field
Can attack out of centre and give the capability to set up players on the inside or outside
Can finish

Nightingales star is fading and the likes of Dufty debut via the right wing as a path into first grade

Field gets experience in preparation for partnership with Hunt next year.



A lot more upside in that ... Dufty starts to get experience for preparation to develop into our next long term fullback
We have better goal kicking
Youthful exuberance from field .. it will bring about more errors but there is a better chance of actually unleashing the backline
Speed
 
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BrissyRedV

Bench
Messages
4,383
You insert any player into such poor and slow structures under the bald one and they will look like a dud and potentially regress. Get rid of Mary and see how the players play. Personally, players like Field and Dufty would be better served learning under Head in reserve grade.
 

Dragonslayer

First Grade
Messages
7,922
Let's be honest here. All the forecasts, predictions and want is not going to have any bearing on who is picked in round 1 (or any other rounds).
McGregor will go with the "old guard" approach. I think deep down we all know this.
Dugan at fullback
Aitken and Lafai as centres
Flo and McDonald at wing
Widdop 5/8
McCrone at 7

There's your stock standard backline right there. Creativity anyone?

As for the forwards again it wouldn't surprise to see Marketo in the 17 used as a reserve forward/hooker (just like the end of last year)

So, don't get surprised if this is the team rolled out on Team List Tuesday, with the explanation of "we going with experience and players we know can get the job done"
 

Glenn01

Juniors
Messages
232
Then take the kicking duties off him. Change his role. You think Bellamy would see a games worth of those kicks and just allow it to continue? No - he'd either train the f**k out of him in how to kick properly, or he'd tell him not to bother grubbering at all!
Are you being sarcastic or have you been smoking whatever it is the trippy old dude smokes so much? I noticed he liked your message.

Great idea. Take the short kicking duties off Widdop. After all, he is our marquee playmaker. His long kicking is even worse, it's just it gets noticed less unless he puts it out on the full, which he invariably does if it doesn't go straight to the fullback. His running game consists of running across field and slipping over or running around in a circle and falling over so don't let him run the ball either. His tackling is woeful so make sure JDB is Frizz is always nearby to help him out.

You know what? I have an idea! It's not much of an idea but........let's put it on the bus and see if it gets off at Olympic Stadium in September! McWanker should have Widdop sit in the corner of the in-goal for the entire match and not move. That way we won't be able to complain about his kicking, long and short, running game, playmaking, defence or goal kicking!

No seriously, Widdop belongs in the Cutters. If he shows some promise and the NRL halves are still shocking he has the possibility to be recalled.
 

SBD82

Coach
Messages
18,005
Are you being sarcastic or have you been smoking whatever it is the trippy old dude smokes so much? I noticed he liked your message.

Great idea. Take the short kicking duties off Widdop. After all, he is our marquee playmaker. His long kicking is even worse, it's just it gets noticed less unless he puts it out on the full, which he invariably does if it doesn't go straight to the fullback. His running game consists of running across field and slipping over or running around in a circle and falling over so don't let him run the ball either. His tackling is woeful so make sure JDB is Frizz is always nearby to help him out.

You know what? I have an idea! It's not much of an idea but........let's put it on the bus and see if it gets off at Olympic Stadium in September! McWanker should have Widdop sit in the corner of the in-goal for the entire match and not move. That way we won't be able to complain about his kicking, long and short, running game, playmaking, defence or goal kicking!

No seriously, Widdop belongs in the Cutters. If he shows some promise and the NRL halves are still shocking he has the possibility to be recalled.

It took longer than usual, but the cracks are starting to appear.
 

possm

Coach
Messages
16,739
The Dragons need to cause change to the way things are. Keeping Widdop at 6 hoping he will improve is madness. Move Widdop to fullback and Dugan to right centre. If things go wrong bring in Dufty or move Dugan back there. Just do something significant to cause change.
 
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