Anyway, back to round 1 team......
1. Dufty (or Duges and co captain)
2. McDonald
3. Dugan (or Aitken)
4. Milne
5. I don't know.
6. Mann
7. McCrone
8. Packer
9. McInnes
10. Au Mau
11. Frizz
12. Thommo
13. JDB (co captain)
14. Nightingale
15. Vaughan
16. Sims
17. Host
You're too fast for me OT.Get off the fence on selection as everyone knows Dufty is out for 4-6 weeks so why put him in the side for Rd 1?
An international winger selected on the bench as a utility but no actual winger selected is a little more than curious.
1) I have stated that Widdop deserves to be dropped on current form, especially since we have an exciting prospect in Mann who could do the job.I'm sure I have no idea what you mean by the first paragraph.
The second is pretty simple. If the coach has to pull the marquee playmaker aside work with him in pretty much every facet of the game, don't you think it's better for the team to drop this guy to a lower level team and let him work on it there?
Carlton
In my post I expressly said
"By all means continue to make comparisons why this player or that player deserves to be picked ahead of somebody else but thinking our fortune is linked to any 1 player is just plain stupid."
I also said by all means drop Widdop.
So I am not defending him nor am I saying don't criticise him.
There are lots in this forum who I consider to have thick heads because they falsely believe that changing 1 player can alter our fortune from a bad side to a competitive and good side and over several years they have continually finger pointed to 1 player at a time and this view is IMO myopic.
Small incremental change is not what will save us as a club, or on the field of play.
Small incremental change will only put a bandaid on a severed artery and for some that appears to be enough and that is what I am protesting about.
Well said Benny V especially the Dugan part.1) I have stated that Widdop deserves to be dropped on current form, especially since we have an exciting prospect in Mann who could do the job.
2) despite that, of course the coach needs to work with his players, ensure their skills are honed and they are on top of their game. BUt it's not about that. Widdop has shown, in the past, that he can play a part in a successful team, and Bellamy made that work - gave him a role and a job to do, and Widdop did it well (running the ball, setting out outside men, the general roll of a 5/8). What they are currently trying to do with him, for whatever reason, doesnt work, and it's up to the coach to change that.
It's the same issue with Dugan - given to a successful coach, the right structures would be placed around him and he would be an instant match winner.
You dont buy a square and then get shitty with it for not fitting into a round hole. You blame the moron that doesnt know what shapes are.
Get off the fence on selection as everyone knows Dufty is out for 4-6 weeks so why put him in the side for Rd 1?
An international winger selected on the bench as a utility but no actual winger selected is a little more than curious.
1) I have stated that Widdop deserves to be dropped on current form, especially since we have an exciting prospect in Mann who could do the job.
2) despite that, of course the coach needs to work with his players, ensure their skills are honed and they are on top of their game. BUt it's not about that. Widdop has shown, in the past, that he can play a part in a successful team, and Bellamy made that work - gave him a role and a job to do, and Widdop did it well (running the ball, setting out outside men, the general roll of a 5/8). What they are currently trying to do with him, for whatever reason, doesnt work, and it's up to the coach to change that.
It's the same issue with Dugan - given to a successful coach, the right structures would be placed around him and he would be an instant match winner.
You dont buy a square and then get shitty with it for not fitting into a round hole. You blame the moron that doesnt know what shapes are.
Carlton
I was talking in general terms in my post and singled out no particular poster by name but you now wish to personalise it, not sure why but your prerogative.
I am clearly just stating my case that I believe some are fixated on smaller issues that will have very little bearing in the end under current circumstances..
I don't quite understand when you say
"Changing your playmaker/captain is not an incremental change but I have also stated I don't think this will fix our problems."
If it is not incremental but is not going to fix our problems what sort of change is it? What is the purpose of the change?
We changed from Price to Mc Gregor in my opinion that was a small incremental and in fact almost insignificant change but if it had been Price to a Hasler, Cleary, Bellamy tor like then that would have been significant and monumental. The trouble is when the change was initially made many were duped into thinking it was a major structural and monumental change.
People believed the lie that was told to them.
How do I deduct that, simple we got more of the same despite the change so it was a bad decision and certainly not the type of big decision that was required. We needed to critically analyse where we were at, clean it all out but we refused then and we still refuse even now to face that reality and do something positive about it.
Make sure you dont personalise the usage of "we and you" usage you should know the intent of the statement is not to be taken that way.
Our upper level of management and coaching is like a birds nest.
Despite the type of bird that is in the nest originally the cuckoo comes every year and lays its egg along side all the other eggs and when it hatches it kicks everything else out of the nest and the parents of everything tossed out raise the ugly cuckoo regardless.
Young Snr,Farrah, Brown, Price, Mc Gregor, Young Jnr, Hornby all eggs laid in the nest, fed and nurtured by by our board whilst really good people were tossed out.
Changing that process before everything else will then make small incremental change actually count for something.
Re Widdop go back and read the varying posts, lots of people saying getting rid of Widdop will be a fix for the on field issues.
Plenty of he's shit, he cant play, he cant kick, he cant this and that but little attention or focus given to anything else about the team or those in it.
It is simply a whipping post because if it won't change the end result why raise the point.
Appreciate that you think I am a nice guy, but don't involve me in your diatribe.Even more so than BrissyRedV for example.
Carlton
I was talking in general terms in my post and singled out no particular poster by name but you now wish to personalise it, not sure why but your prerogative.
I am clearly just stating my case that I believe some are fixated on smaller issues that will have very little bearing in the end under current circumstances..
I don't quite understand when you say
"Changing your playmaker/captain is not an incremental change but I have also stated I don't think this will fix our problems."
If it is not incremental but is not going to fix our problems what sort of change is it? What is the purpose of the change?
We changed from Price to Mc Gregor in my opinion that was a small incremental and in fact almost insignificant change but if it had been Price to a Hasler, Cleary, Bellamy tor like then that would have been significant and monumental. The trouble is when the change was initially made many were duped into thinking it was a major structural and monumental change.
People believed the lie that was told to them.
How do I deduct that, simple we got more of the same despite the change so it was a bad decision and certainly not the type of big decision that was required. We needed to critically analyse where we were at, clean it all out but we refused then and we still refuse even now to face that reality and do something positive about it.
Make sure you dont personalise the usage of "we and you" usage you should know the intent of the statement is not to be taken that way.
Our upper level of management and coaching is like a birds nest.
Despite the type of bird that is in the nest originally the cuckoo comes every year and lays its egg along side all the other eggs and when it hatches it kicks everything else out of the nest and the parents of everything tossed out raise the ugly cuckoo regardless.
Young Snr,Farrah, Brown, Price, Mc Gregor, Young Jnr, Hornby all eggs laid in the nest, fed and nurtured by by our board whilst really good people were tossed out.
Changing that process before everything else will then make small incremental change actually count for something.
Re Widdop go back and read the varying posts, lots of people saying getting rid of Widdop will be a fix for the on field issues.
Plenty of he's shit, he cant play, he cant kick, he cant this and that but little attention or focus given to anything else about the team or those in it.
It is simply a whipping post because if it won't change the end result why raise the point.
OT, I think you have hit the nail on the head. There have been a number of whipping boys in the past who have now gone on to do bigger and better things. A couple of prime examples include Sowie and Prior who were smashed by fans under the tutelage of Price. Both moved to greener pastures and succeeded under better coaching. Rein may be another example we get to this year.Carlton
I in now way want to discourage people from being critical of a player or saying someone else deserves a go in place of him.
This was never my intent, I just abhor the way the finger pointing and vitriol from some people is all about 1 person and the belief his removal will fix it.
I truly believe some people have that vision and I push back against it thus my terminology and use of the English language.
I never said don't talk about change regardless of what the board is doing I simply meant stop whipping a player to death over the issues that are much bigger than any 1 player.
I said that they were stupid and were thick headed "IF" they though that changing Widdop alone would fix the issue so you are stretching my statement to get your conclusion.
Changing the coach should have been monumental but it was incremental because we went from poor performing, no experience, insider of the club coach to poor performing, no experience, insider of the club coach so how anybody can interpret that as anything else but significantly incremental?
Maybe this example may explain it better
Ferrarri F1 team announce they have a new car that will be launched next year after they have just had 3 very successful years on the track and state they have 3 or 4 drivers from other teams who could drive it but they have decided to go with the bloke that drove it into the pits after he took it out of the crate.
That obviously fails pretty quickly but due to them dilly dallying the first time, they now only have 1 or 2 recognised F1 drivers to choose from but they decide to again ignore them and get the bloke that drove the car from the pits to the plane for the car to be shipped to the next destination.
Now that is about to fail and there are no F1 drivers left to choose from and they are thinking about the guy in the pit crew as the driver.
The first decision was a monumental decision (just like Craig Young) and ultimately a dud decision no question but all the other decisions re the subsequent drivers are appallingly bad they are as a result of incremental change as when those decisions were made they never had any hope of making the situation better. They were like having an insurance policy to cover your arse.
Obviously you read my posts and interpret them differently so rather than have rancour best we desist the conversation.
I take it backAppreciate that you think I am a nice guy, but don't involve me in your diatribe.
Ridiculous hypothetical. No way in the world would Bellamy find himself in a situation of having halves like ours. At least not outside of Origin or an injury crisis. If he did, I image he would do better but still badly. If McWanker hadn't been clueless he could have possibly, quickly palmed off Widdop and had another club pick up a decent portion of his salary until the end of this season. Too late for that now. No club is going to pick of a significant % of his salary for this season.A hypothetical question
If our entire staff including the board, coaching, recruitment, medical were to change places with the people at the Storm and both clubs maintained their existing rosters where would both clubs be at the start of the 2019 season?
I forgot to throw Merrin in as he was shit and over rated too remember and he would regret leaving us lolThe issue I have is that we all agree the Board/CEO/Coach have to change for long term success. This is not going to happen anytime in the foreseeable future. This is the disease that needs to be fixed.
However, it is entirely rational to still have discussions about the symptoms and how they should be dealt with. Nobody expects addressing the symptoms to cure the disease but they are looking for a little relief from the pain even if its temporary while they are waiting for the cure.
Any poster on this forum who pretends they haven't criticised or agreed with the criticism of a player or player selection at some stage is being a hypocrite. We have an inept playmaker but some people think we shouldn't talk about that until the Board changes.
I am guilty as charged. I have hammered Rein a number of times in the past hence my eagerness now to see how he goes under a different coach.Any poster on this forum who pretends they haven't criticised or agreed with the criticism of a player or player selection at some stage is being a hypocrite. We have an inept playmaker but some people think we shouldn't talk about that until the Board changes.