Overhauling the domestic season schedule

[_snafu_]

Of course BBL scheduling will not move. I think we just have to accept that the long form of the game is secondary to the cash cow that is hit and giggle.

 

[Bazal]

Of course BBL scheduling will not move. I think we just have to accept that the long form of the game is secondary to the cash cow that is hit and giggle.

And the fact is that, with proper structures in place and proper coaching, that should be absolutely fine.

The argument is, seemingly, that batsmen always bat like they are playing a T20. Now, if that's true, surely that's a coaching issue?

Blokes like Jos Buttler are gun T20 players and Test batsmen. Jonny Bairstow is a hell-for-leather short form dasher, and a gun Test bat. The entire Indian team bar Pujara play IPL and they are the number one side in long form cricket. Hell, Kane Bradmanson was brilliant in the last IPL...and we're not talking about him being damaged somehow by the experience.

T20 as the cancer that's killing cricket just doesn't stack up.

 

[_snafu_]

And the fact is that, with proper structures in place and proper coaching, that should be absolutely fine.

The argument is, seemingly, that batsmen always bat like they are playing a T20. Now, if that's true, surely that's a coaching issue?

Blokes like Jos Buttler are gun T20 players and Test batsmen. Jonny Bairstow is a hell-for-leather short form dasher, and a gun Test bat. The entire Indian team bar Pujara play IPL and they are the number one side in long form cricket. Hell, Kane Bradmanson was brilliant in the last IPL...and we're not talking about him being damaged somehow by the experience.

T20 as the cancer that's killing cricket just doesn't stack up.

Perhaps. But I figure that a person's style of play is developed by the type of cricket they play.

There is not enough emphasis on the longer form of the game. I think the best way for a batsman to learn how to be more selective in stroke play is to play more games in the longer form.

While a few of our guys got out to jaffas, most of them lose patience after facing 40 balls and get out due to poor shot selections (which would otherwise be used in limited over games).

 

[Bazal]

There is not enough emphasis on the longer form of the game. I think the best way for a batsman to learn how to be more selective in stroke play is to play more games in the longer form.

I agree with that, but again, that's not the fault of T20 for existing as some like to suggest.

There are always going to be batsmen who are more suited to one form or the other. Not many IPL teams chasing Pujara, and there's no one talking about Max Bryant as a Test match batsman.

But beyond that, we seem to be the only nation with a problem switching forms...and tbh, I'd argue that the problem isn't that they play T20 cricket, the problem is that they grow up without ever being coached to start with the basics...

 

[Matt23]

While a few of our guys got out to jaffas, most of them lose patience after facing 40 balls and get out due to poor shot selections (which would otherwise be used in limited over games).

Case in point most of Travis Head's dismissals this series

 

[_snafu_]

Case in point most of Travis Head's dismissals this series

He was exactly who I was thinking of.

 

[Bazal]

He was exactly who I was thinking of.

Technique, on the whole, is overrated, but there are basic tenets of batting that always stay roughly the same.

Head plays away from his body too much. His feet go down the wicket instead of towards the line, and his back elbow gets into all sorts of weird places and wrecks his shape. It also contributes to an overuse of his bottom hand. It's not that he's losing patience and playing a "T20" shot, it's that the way he plays certain shots is wrong. Driving oin the up gets him in all sorts of trouble because everything about his position is wrong.

And that's my point. He won't get away with that long term in short form cricket either, bowlers these days are too smart. But he's made it to a position of being captain of his state where a basic mistake like that has yet to be corrected. He's played his whole life like that, and no doubt been encouraged by coaches and captains to "play his natural game", but his natural game has glaring, basic flaws. That's not because of T20 cricket, that's because of fundamental problems right the way down to junior cricket, where the basics are no longer considered that important as long as you play your shots.

And yes, T20 cricket probably has some responsibility for that, if we're being realistic. Kids want to smack the ball because they see the Hurricanes and Thunder hitting 16 balls up into the Coal River Valley...but the big problem is the coaching once these kids get serious, because they aren't taking them in the right direction.

 

[Bazal]

I've kept this as a separate post, because it's a bit of a TLDR and probably no one else cares, which is 100% fair.

In our side, we've got a gun young bat. 16 years old, and after 11 rounds he's our second top run scorer with probably the nicest looking technique I've ever seen outside international cricket. Last year he took a year off cricket, having gone off to play some high level junior cricket or other, and his old man (who plays fives) said he was contemplating giving the game away. This is a kid who has scored three back to back fifties batting five in second grade at age 16...he's very, very good and loves the game.

So when he was mooted for the move into our side after the first few rounds I pulled him and his old man aside for a chat about it, because I didn't want to push him up too high for one, and because I wanted to make sure he was having fun and that we didn't wreck that. We got to chatting about the reasons he wanted to quit, and he unloaded on the coaching system in the juniors.

Basically, he was getting stick from his teammates, coaches, and other parents as a number three bat for scoring too slow. He was (and still is) getting out chipping balls to mid-on consistently and he wanted to sort that out, technically, so he went to his coaches only to be told stuff like "don't worry about it, just try to focus on hitting the ball harder so it goes over the fielder" and "play your natural game and it will sort itself out." Obviously I'm paraphrasing, but the gist was that he wanted to sort out an aspect of his game, and his coaches flat out told him it wasn't important so long as he could score runs otherwise. And the parents were apparently shocking, basically controlling the side and carrying on if anyone criticised or stood in the way of their little superstar. He wound up batting 7 and 8 because parents complained that he didn't hit as many boundaries as their kids, parents were sledging him, and the real final straw was one of the coaches telling him he was "a bit selfish" for playing the way he did and for taking up their time every week asking the same questions about how to fix his mid-on issue...

I mean, obviously that's just one side of the story, but it parallels a few others I've heard in a lot of ways. There are very serious issues at grass roots level in Australia. And it's not just junior cricket either, The Grade Cricketer lads have had some excellent discussions about Greg Chappell and the way he wrecked grade cricket...

 

[T-Boon]

Bazal is full of shit. T20 is totally ruining the Australian test batting.

 

[Bazal]

Bazal is full of shit. T20 is totally ruining the Australian test batting.

Should we reduce interchanges?

 

[T-Boon]

Should we reduce interchanges?

T20 should certainly be 9 a side. It should also be played in rectangular stadiums so there are more maximums hit and the crowd is closer to the action.

 

[Bazal]

T20 should certainly be 9 a side. It should also be played in rectangular stadiums so there are more maximums hit and the crowd is closer to the action.

You're already stretched enough proposing crackpot ideas for one sport you have no idea about, champion.

Don't overextend yourself

 

[Mr Spock!]

Does India have to compete against major winter sports though?

That's a major issue for Australia which has a window from October to February. And how many tests do they actually play at home?

The Ipl seems to be at the beginning of the Indian season and doesn't have test matches scheduled against it. The Indian season seems to just go on forever (2000 domestic games in 2018 with 35 teams!!!!)

I mean let's not forget that some Australian players went away at the end of last season having played club cricket since the last test at the beginning of January..Also how do we pick someone out of a BBL tournament to replace a test player?

And there's quite obviously horses for courses eg Andrew Tye and Chris Lynn will never play test cricket....

As for coaching - not so sure. Don't know what the club scene's like either.

 

[Twizzle]

I think Travis Head is a good example of how young players are subject to a lot of limited over cricket and when he gets to 5 day cricket, he can only perform on flat decks as he really doesn't have the footwork for test cricket, either that or he just loses concentration and goes the slap when he gets a wide one that he should have left, all his dismissals this series have been similar and virtually no footwork.

Concentration is one of those things that are hard to coach as he seems to be able to get starts but just cant hang around for long periods of time.

 

[Mr Spock!]

Technique and concentration have a lot to do with it.

Technique doesnt matter any more so long as you have a good eye. Maybe thats a consequence of watching a guy like Gilchrist.

But that guy was a star on all forms of cricket.

Thats the only way Handscomb could have got so far with such a dodgy technique and don't get me started on Chris Lynn who literally breaks down standing at the crease.

 

[T-Boon]

While the Big Bash League is being played they should suspend each cities first grade competitions and have all the best players in the country who are not playing tests or Big Bash play in a Sydney competition made up of 5 teams who play 4 x 100 over innings games then a final.

 

[herbert henry1908]

In what sport in the universe does a possibles v probables concept work or develop players?

That's the whole purpose of domestic cricket, to develop players.

I think the BBL will develop limited overs players, then you choose the best/most suitable from that to step up to a 50 over format.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Well if the Test team is playing, they can't be affected by playing in the BBL, can they?

It's a cop out. Every time anyone talks about batting, it's always "that gosh-darned T20 rubbish". But that T20 stuff doesn't affect India. Or England.

So why does it seemingly affect us?

The problem is systemic and starts at junior level.

They’re effected by who they can select. Pulling someone out of BBL isn’t ideal.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Of course BBL scheduling will not move. I think we just have to accept that the long form of the game is secondary to the cash cow that is hit and giggle.

The main cash cow aspect is TV, not crowds. Crowds would be impacted by a move, TV ratings may actually go up.

 

[herbert henry1908]

And the fact is that, with proper structures in place and proper coaching, that should be absolutely fine.

The argument is, seemingly, that batsmen always bat like they are playing a T20. Now, if that's true, surely that's a coaching issue?

Blokes like Jos Buttler are gun T20 players and Test batsmen. Jonny Bairstow is a hell-for-leather short form dasher, and a gun Test bat. The entire Indian team bar Pujara play IPL and they are the number one side in long form cricket. Hell, Kane Bradmanson was brilliant in the last IPL...and we're not talking about him being damaged somehow by the experience.

T20 as the cancer that's killing cricket just doesn't stack up.

Buttler averages in the mid 30’s in test cricket, that’s a gun? He’s very average.