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2020 team

Knight Vision

First Grade
Messages
5,066
I was just reading through this article about NRL players who are off contract at the end of the 2020 season:

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nr...e/news-story/083e09067867ffedbcff0b0c2e42d20f

And decided to do a bit of a run through on our player list, namely:

KNIGHTS

Mitch Barnett, Herman Ese’ese, Beau Fermor, James Gavet, Aidan Guerra, Josh King, Danny Levi, Mason Lino, Tautau Moga, Jesse Ramien, Daniel Saifiti, Jacob Saifiti, Pasami Saulo, Connor Watson


Here is what I would be looking at if I were coach:

Mitch Barnett - retain
Herman Ese'ese - retain
Beau Fermor - retain on minimum wage, depth only.
James Gavet - gone
Aidan Guerra - gone
Josh King - retain on minimum wage, depth only.
Danny Levi - gone
Mason Lino - retain on minimum wage, depth only (suspect we go for an experienced 5/8 or promote Sasagi or Crossland).
Tautau Moga - gone
Jesse Ramien - already gone
Daniel Saifiti - retain but doesn't deserve marquee money. He regressed badly for us after Origin when we needed him to fire.
Jacob Saifiti - retain, if his off-field behavior has improved he may be immense for us next year and leapfrog his brother.
Pasami Saulo - retain, maybe a little bit above minimum wage.
Connor Watson - retain but only on his current contract value. He was meant to be our long term 5/8 but is now primarily a bench sub for us. A very good and dangerous bench sub at that. For that, I wouldn't cut his pay but my position is you only pay marquee money for spine players or if your name is David Klemmer.
I agree with all of the above. Glasby is off contract 2021 also. I'd be looking to move him on asap. Personally I havent not seen any value at all in his signing. Maybe off field leadership ? valuable experience yes but certainly his on field performances this year leave a lot to be desired. He's a bench player at best . Vanilla in the extreme.
 

Knight Vision

First Grade
Messages
5,066
The furore over that decision has sure died a quick death.

Imagine if they three peat with another new half in 2020!
and Cronk has just been given life membership at the Roosters after 2 Premiership winning seasons.

Cronk has1 more Premiership to show in 2 seasons than all of Pearce's time at the Roosters.
 

Johns Magic

Referee
Messages
21,654
spare a thought for our mental midget halfback. Roosters Premiers for the second year in a row after punting him and their new halfback working with basically the same squad- must be humiliating. I wonder how he will back up next year.

I'm looking to 2021 when we hopefully have some fun tickets to go after another half to support him.

Not to stick up for Pearce. But Cronk came on board at the same time as Tedesco and I think more credit goes to Teddy than Cronk.
 

Mr_Knightside

Juniors
Messages
2,204
Not to stick up for Pearce. But Cronk came on board at the same time as Tedesco and I think more credit goes to Teddy than Cronk.

Agreed. It’s easy to make the Cronk/Pearce comparison but Tedesco just won the Dally M and has been arguably the best player in the game for a few years now. Not to mention Keary was the star of that 2018 grand final, Cronk just stood there and gave instructions for 80 mins. In terms of what he contributed as an actual physical player they could probably have put Steve Witt on the field and still won that game.

I’m sure the Roosters are happy with their choice to bring Cronk in at Pearce’s expense but that should diminish what Pearce has achieved in the game. I feel bad for the guy actually, can’t be easy seeing his old side that he devoted most of his career to become so dominant after he left but he has to live with it and I’m sure he will. I just hope that he at least gets to play a couple of finals series as a Knight which might get a few people off his back for helping to steer us in the right direction.

Let’s not forget that Brown spoke to Cronk and tried to get him here before Pearce was even in the picture and I’m sure that one of the major factors that stopped him coming was the fact that we were a team that was losing (a lot) and he probably put us in the too hard basket early on and wasn’t up for that challenge. It’s kinda like Craig Bellamy, everyone knows he’s an amazing coach because his results speak for themselves but I’d love to see him to go a battling club and turn it into Melbourne 2.0 but we’re unlikely to see it ever happen because he doesn’t have much incentive to do that when he can continue in a successful system and win a premiership every few years.

I’m definitely not saying that Cronk has had it easy because from all reports he’s an extremely hard worker and has earned everything he’s got but the guy had a chance to stamp his legacy on a club that was at its lowest ebb and chose a powerhouse instead. I don’t blame him for that but I can’t help but feel that the dominos fell into place for him.

Anyway I’m not trying to argue who’s the better halfback because if I had the choice I would take Cronk over Pearce but I just think it’s a bit OTT to call Pearce a “mental midget” and detract from what he’s done. ultimately not many people get a fairytale in rugby league and Cronk is one of the few who does get one.
 

Knight Vision

First Grade
Messages
5,066
Oh, we'd definitely be better off with Brock Lamb or Jack Cogger at halfback.
lol

Craig Bellamy, everyone knows he’s an amazing coach because his results speak for themselves but I’d love to see him to go a battling club and turn it into Melbourne 2.0 but we’re unlikely to see it ever happen because he doesn’t have much incentive to do that when he can continue in a successful system and win a premiership every few years.
sometimes people just get lucky. Bellamy not unlike Bennett did heads up an important franchize with vast off field resources, but cheated the cap and kept the nucleus of a side with champions of their era in it. If not for that it would be a very very different story.
 

Spot On

Coach
Messages
13,902
'He's the G.O.A.T': Roosters teammates explain why Cooper Cronk deserves Immortal nod
By Melanie Dinjaski - 3 days ago
Cooper Cronk explains how it feels to finish his career with another grand final win.
After 16 years playing in the NRL, Cooper Cronk was given a dream end to his storied rugby league career, with a grand final victory in Roosters colours.

Though it's only been his second year in the Tri Colours, he's made the most of his final years in the game, with historic back-to-back Premierships. And so, the conversation moves to the legacy Cronk leaves behind.

There are 13 rugby league legends that are Immortals, including Clive Churchill, John Raper, Reg Gasnier, Bob Fulton, Graeme Langlands, Wally Lewis, Arthur Beetson, Andrew Johns, Dally Messenger, Frank Burge, Dave Brown, Norm Provan, and Mal Meninga. And in five years Cronk will be able to be considered to join that exclusive club.

The list of achievements are pretty remarkable - 375 NRL games, two Dally M Medals (2013, 2016), one Clive Churchill Medal (2012), a six-time Premiership winner at two clubs (two titles stripped with the Storm), nine grand finals played, a rugby league World Golden Boot (2016) and a two-time World Club Challenge winner.


In representative footy, Cronk has an incredible record too, with 38 Tests for the Kangaroos, and 22 State of Origin games for Queensland as a key part of the Maroons' most successful team in the state vs state blockbuster's history.

https%3A%2F%2Fprod.static9.net.au%2Ffs%2Fe6b9bfb5-3586-4eb4-8a4c-abbd52ea50a3

Roosters presented with the trophy (Getty)
In the Roosters locker room at ANZ Stadium after their thrilling 14-8 win over the Raiders, Cronk's teammates also had glowing reviews about the man as well as the player.

His teammate Jared Waerea-Hargeaves was adamant an Immortal nod was coming.

"He's honestly the G.O.A.T," he told Wide World of Sports.

"Six premierships, nine grand finals, and there's a reason why - he works bloody hard every day and we see that. He's a hell of a professional athlete and I'm so grateful for everything that he's done for our organisation.

"He's the greatest man I've ever played with. The influence he's had on our club and the influence he's had on me as a man, both on and off the field, is amazing. I'm so thankful."


https%3A%2F%2Fprod.static9.net.au%2Ffs%2Fbaa81eb8-4663-4606-93d7-20abf3011696

Cooper Cronk celebrates winning the 2019 NRL grand final with the Sydney Roosters (Getty)
Another Roosters teammate Mitch Aubusson said for Cronk's accomplishments in Sydney alone he's shown he's deserving of the highest rugby league honour.

"What a leader, what a player, and surely he'll have to be in that Immortal discussion after what he's done the last few years, the way he's finished his career," Aubusson said.

"He took a risk to come to the Roosters after probably feeling so at home at Melbourne for so many years. What a reward for him, two premierships in two years.

"He's a great family man and we can learn a lot from him. When he was in Melbourne I knew that he was a good fella and played the game fairly and tough and that was really magnified when he came to us.


"His leadership and his toughness was a big thing I realised. I mean, look at last year's grand final, he played the game with a cracked scapula."


Aubusson was also impressed with the way in which Cronk was able to win over his new teammates when he came up from the Storm, having arrived to the club amidst the headline-grabbing departure of long-time beloved Rooster, Mitchell Pearce.

"That was a really tough time for everybody. Pearcey was a really good friend of mine and we grew up playing together. The club and Pearce made a call and I was really disappointed it ended that way," Aubusson said.

"But Cronk has really repaid the club in spades. He worked hard from day one. He's probably the hardest working guy in the last two years and he deserves everything he gets."


For winger Daniel Tupou, who delivered the pass to James Tedesco to race away and score Sydney's game-winning try in the final 10 minutes in the 2019 grand final, the best memory he has of Cronk involved a simple cup of coffee.

"We've got a couple of stories. Probably his first time buying me coffee is my favourite. It was so awkward, but we got on from there," Tupou said.

"I was into piccolos but he got me onto the long blacks.

"But he always put the team first before himself. He's just a genuine bloke and a legend."

Roosters halfback and Storm great Cooper Cronk won the NRL grand final in his last game before retirement.
Tupou couldn't say whether the Roosters would have had the same success they've experienced the past two seasons without Cronk, however his impact in the team has been immense. Especially with the "big shoes" he had to fill when Pearce left.

"100 percent he should be an Immortal," Tupou said.

"Because he's a genuine bloke and with all the stuff he's done for the game, he deserves it.

"It was an honour to be taught by him."

Tedesco arrived at the same time as Cronk to the club, but he too described the halfback's influence, with and without a footy in hand at the Roosters, as "massive".

"He's made everyone here a better player. He's a true gentleman, a professional and everyone has learned so much from him, so we can't thank him enough," Tedesco said.

"He's a leader. In tough situations he ices those moments, and he's done that his whole career.

"But as a person I think that's the most important thing. Off the field, he's just a great bloke and we all love him. You can never say a bad word about him. I have a lot of love for him as a footballer but also as a person. "



Having played against Cronk for years in the NRL and in Origin, Tedesco, much like Roosters co-captain Jake Friend, were both stunned at how easy it was to accept the veteran playmaker into the fold. In such a short amount of time he was able to win over the playing group, and through his actions galvanize the team to reach (and win) back-to-back grand finals.

"We were enemies against the Storm but whenever I spent time with Cooper he was always a gentleman and that's exactly what we got when he came to the Roosters," Friend said.

"He trains his backside off. He leads the boys around the paddock. Off the field he's a great family man and very professional. He brings everyone up to his level and I think that's why we've been so successful."


Friend said Cronk's potential to become an Immortal should not be in question as the 35-year-old hangs up the boots for good after that memorable grand final win.

"I think he was [an Immortal] even before this. I don't know how many records the bloke broke tonight but he's pretty special," the Roosters hooker said.

"What he's done at this club in two years... he's a pretty special dude. He's got a head for a coach, I don't know if he'd go into it, but he's a smart footy guy."


As for Cronk himself, he had a favourite footy slang response to express his humble thoughts on whether he is deserving of Immortal status.

"It is what it is," he told Wide World of Sports.

"I'm not disrespecting the awards that get thrown out in rugby league. I'm a rugby league tragic and respect the history of it but the only accolade that's really important to me is that I'm a good husband and a good father."

 
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perverse

Referee
Messages
25,988
No-one's going to sit here and argue that 6 grand final wins doesn't make a pretty special player. Cronk is elite tier. Keary and Tedesco go pretty damn good, too.

edit - got the number of grand finals wrong. only a measly 6 wins.
 

Knight Vision

First Grade
Messages
5,066
No-one's going to sit here and argue that 6 grand final wins doesn't make a pretty special player. Cronk is elite tier. Keary and Tedesco go pretty damn good, too.

edit - got the number of grand finals wrong. only a measly 6 wins.

Still got it wrong it's 4 wins.

Cheats that win dont get to keep their medals and go down in history as winners. .....its 4 wins for Cronk....so far.....who knows what will be found out in the future.

Puts Cronk at 1 more win than Parramatta legend and immortal in waiting Steve Sharp.
 

Knight Vision

First Grade
Messages
5,066
'He's the G.O.A.T': Roosters teammates explain why Cooper Cronk deserves Immortal nod
By Melanie Dinjaski - 3 days ago
Cooper Cronk explains how it feels to finish his career with another grand final win.
After 16 years playing in the NRL, Cooper Cronk was given a dream end to his storied rugby league career, with a grand final victory in Roosters colours.

Though it's only been his second year in the Tri Colours, he's made the most of his final years in the game, with historic back-to-back Premierships. And so, the conversation moves to the legacy Cronk leaves behind.

There are 13 rugby league legends that are Immortals, including Clive Churchill, John Raper, Reg Gasnier, Bob Fulton, Graeme Langlands, Wally Lewis, Arthur Beetson, Andrew Johns, Dally Messenger, Frank Burge, Dave Brown, Norm Provan, and Mal Meninga. And in five years Cronk will be able to be considered to join that exclusive club.

The list of achievements are pretty remarkable - 375 NRL games, two Dally M Medals (2013, 2016), one Clive Churchill Medal (2012), a six-time Premiership winner at two clubs (two titles stripped with the Storm), nine grand finals played, a rugby league World Golden Boot (2016) and a two-time World Club Challenge winner.


In representative footy, Cronk has an incredible record too, with 38 Tests for the Kangaroos, and 22 State of Origin games for Queensland as a key part of the Maroons' most successful team in the state vs state blockbuster's history.

https%3A%2F%2Fprod.static9.net.au%2Ffs%2Fe6b9bfb5-3586-4eb4-8a4c-abbd52ea50a3

Roosters presented with the trophy (Getty)
In the Roosters locker room at ANZ Stadium after their thrilling 14-8 win over the Raiders, Cronk's teammates also had glowing reviews about the man as well as the player.

His teammate Jared Waerea-Hargeaves was adamant an Immortal nod was coming.

"He's honestly the G.O.A.T," he told Wide World of Sports.

"Six premierships, nine grand finals, and there's a reason why - he works bloody hard every day and we see that. He's a hell of a professional athlete and I'm so grateful for everything that he's done for our organisation.

"He's the greatest man I've ever played with. The influence he's had on our club and the influence he's had on me as a man, both on and off the field, is amazing. I'm so thankful."


https%3A%2F%2Fprod.static9.net.au%2Ffs%2Fbaa81eb8-4663-4606-93d7-20abf3011696

Cooper Cronk celebrates winning the 2019 NRL grand final with the Sydney Roosters (Getty)
Another Roosters teammate Mitch Aubusson said for Cronk's accomplishments in Sydney alone he's shown he's deserving of the highest rugby league honour.

"What a leader, what a player, and surely he'll have to be in that Immortal discussion after what he's done the last few years, the way he's finished his career," Aubusson said.

"He took a risk to come to the Roosters after probably feeling so at home at Melbourne for so many years. What a reward for him, two premierships in two years.

"He's a great family man and we can learn a lot from him. When he was in Melbourne I knew that he was a good fella and played the game fairly and tough and that was really magnified when he came to us.


"His leadership and his toughness was a big thing I realised. I mean, look at last year's grand final, he played the game with a cracked scapula."


Aubusson was also impressed with the way in which Cronk was able to win over his new teammates when he came up from the Storm, having arrived to the club amidst the headline-grabbing departure of long-time beloved Rooster, Mitchell Pearce.

"That was a really tough time for everybody. Pearcey was a really good friend of mine and we grew up playing together. The club and Pearce made a call and I was really disappointed it ended that way," Aubusson said.

"But Cronk has really repaid the club in spades. He worked hard from day one. He's probably the hardest working guy in the last two years and he deserves everything he gets."


For winger Daniel Tupou, who delivered the pass to James Tedesco to race away and score Sydney's game-winning try in the final 10 minutes in the 2019 grand final, the best memory he has of Cronk involved a simple cup of coffee.

"We've got a couple of stories. Probably his first time buying me coffee is my favourite. It was so awkward, but we got on from there," Tupou said.

"I was into piccolos but he got me onto the long blacks.

"But he always put the team first before himself. He's just a genuine bloke and a legend."

Roosters halfback and Storm great Cooper Cronk won the NRL grand final in his last game before retirement.
Tupou couldn't say whether the Roosters would have had the same success they've experienced the past two seasons without Cronk, however his impact in the team has been immense. Especially with the "big shoes" he had to fill when Pearce left.

"100 percent he should be an Immortal," Tupou said.

"Because he's a genuine bloke and with all the stuff he's done for the game, he deserves it.

"It was an honour to be taught by him."

Tedesco arrived at the same time as Cronk to the club, but he too described the halfback's influence, with and without a footy in hand at the Roosters, as "massive".

"He's made everyone here a better player. He's a true gentleman, a professional and everyone has learned so much from him, so we can't thank him enough," Tedesco said.

"He's a leader. In tough situations he ices those moments, and he's done that his whole career.

"But as a person I think that's the most important thing. Off the field, he's just a great bloke and we all love him. You can never say a bad word about him. I have a lot of love for him as a footballer but also as a person. "



Having played against Cronk for years in the NRL and in Origin, Tedesco, much like Roosters co-captain Jake Friend, were both stunned at how easy it was to accept the veteran playmaker into the fold. In such a short amount of time he was able to win over the playing group, and through his actions galvanize the team to reach (and win) back-to-back grand finals.

"We were enemies against the Storm but whenever I spent time with Cooper he was always a gentleman and that's exactly what we got when he came to the Roosters," Friend said.

"He trains his backside off. He leads the boys around the paddock. Off the field he's a great family man and very professional. He brings everyone up to his level and I think that's why we've been so successful."


Friend said Cronk's potential to become an Immortal should not be in question as the 35-year-old hangs up the boots for good after that memorable grand final win.

"I think he was [an Immortal] even before this. I don't know how many records the bloke broke tonight but he's pretty special," the Roosters hooker said.

"What he's done at this club in two years... he's a pretty special dude. He's got a head for a coach, I don't know if he'd go into it, but he's a smart footy guy."


As for Cronk himself, he had a favourite footy slang response to express his humble thoughts on whether he is deserving of Immortal status.

"It is what it is," he told Wide World of Sports.

"I'm not disrespecting the awards that get thrown out in rugby league. I'm a rugby league tragic and respect the history of it but the only accolade that's really important to me is that I'm a good husband and a good father."
wow. The immortal thing must really generate some clicks. Unfortunately the concept is heavily politicized.....sure does look good to have an "immortal " on the books I suppose. The concept will be dead and buried within 20 years. Every man and his seeing eye dog will be an " immortal" or an "immortal in waiting" by that stage. Great shame because the concept is a good one......but just like most things NRL is just poorly thought out.
 

Mr Angry

Not a Referee
Messages
51,794

"I'm not disrespecting the awards that get thrown out in rugby league. I'm a rugby league tragic and respect the history of it but the only accolade that's really important to me is that I'm a good husband and a good father."
Love every word that comes out of his mouth. Smart man. Smart player.

Professional in every way.

Future Hall of famer, as for immortal, there was a reason he sat on the bench for QLD when Lockyer and Thurston were playing, it was not age.
 

Spot On

Coach
Messages
13,902
wow. The immortal thing must really generate some clicks. Unfortunately the concept is heavily politicized.....sure does look good to have an "immortal " on the books I suppose. The concept will be dead and buried within 20 years. Every man and his seeing eye dog will be an " immortal" or an "immortal in waiting" by that stage. Great shame because the concept is a good one......but just like most things NRL is just poorly thought out.

I'm not at all fussed over the 'Immortal' tag since Johns was gifted it.

I'm more interested in words spoken about Cronk by JWH Aubo, Teddy and Friend. These are great players inspired to be even better simply by having Cronk's professionalism at the club and around them each day. They are telling imo about how the Roosters have gone back-to-back. How instrumental Cronk has been in their 2 premierships.

Like him or loathe him, Cronk is a man among men. A true leader. I have heard Hargreaves speak about the calmness he has brought to their side on multiple occasions. How in 'awe' of him he is.

Then there's his toughness - mental and physical.

Then there is the desire to win. All the time. Each and every week. Club, state and country.

No off-field dramas. No drunken binges, police charges, court appearances, repulsive photos or footage etc. Respects the club, the game and his team mates.

We are lacking 'men' who can lead a side on and off the park imo.

Klem can't do much more than he does (he does his job week in and week out) and after that..... we have nothing.
 
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Old dog

Juniors
Messages
2,485
I have similar thought about Cronk, he is very clever player who brings the best out of those around him, might not have been the very best but he certainly improved those he played with.
 

Knight Vision

First Grade
Messages
5,066
Then there's his toughness - mental and physical.

Then there is the desire to win. All the time. Each and every week. Club, state and country.

No off-field dramas. No drunken binges, police charges, court appearances, repulsive photos or footage etc. Respects the club, the game and his team mates.

We are lacking 'men' who can lead a side on and off the park imo.
hard to argue. Cronk's definitely a leader and total pro. Speaks well and is a mature figure in the game. We do lack these qualities at the Knights, with no over 150-200 gamers other than Pearce and Guerra it's an area the Knights need to work on no doubt.
 

perverse

Referee
Messages
25,988
Still got it wrong it's 4 wins.

Cheats that win dont get to keep their medals and go down in history as winners. .....its 4 wins for Cronk....so far.....who knows what will be found out in the future.

Puts Cronk at 1 more win than Parramatta legend and immortal in waiting Steve Sharp.
You can strip a premiership or a trophy, you can't erase the fact the man turned up on grand final day and won a match of football. I chose my words as I saw appropriate. Grand Finals happened those days, and Cronk was in the team that won on the day. I'm not attributing any honor or reward to it, it's just a fact of history. It happened, I watched it.
 

perverse

Referee
Messages
25,988
Well you can. That's kinda the whole point.
Did Cronk show up, play in and win games of football on those days? Regardless of cheating, the events happened. He has been involved in 9 grand finals, won 6 - 2 of those while his team was cheating the salary cap and thus had all reward for those victories stripped. If you look in the history books, you will still find that the Storm won games of football on those days.

http://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/competitions/nrl/finals.html

See the games listed for 2007 and 2009. The wins count for absolutely nothing, but the games happened, and he was there, and his team had more points than the opposition at the conclusion of 80 minutes of contest. Most importantly to the actual point I was making - Cronk gained big game experience in those matches and likely improved as a player through playing in those seasons and matches, regardless of legacy or record.

And hell, even if you want to be super petty and try to ignore your own memories and the fact that those games still happened because you're all still upset about the cheating, 4 grand final wins is still spectacular. You're splitting hairs on a minor element of my overall point which still stands at 4, 6, 7 or 12 grand final wins. He is a stellar player - one of the best of his generation.
 
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