Rumoured and Confirmed signings - Part 4

[Whino]

Why release a forward? Doesn’t make sense to me.

Not knowing the reason but maybe the player is down the pecking order and is looking for a better opportunity?

 

[betcats]

Not knowing the reason but maybe the player is down the pecking order and is looking for a better opportunity?

Yeah that is a good reason for the player to want out but at this point of the season with the squad pretty much set we are just potentially weakening ourselves. If it’s someone like Ellis who gets a game or two a year for the last few years then go for it but someone like Heathro I’d not let go just to chase better playing time, he can chase that here.

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

Considering RCG's comments in recent times from complaining about his time at Panthers I'd say there was attitude issues/bad blood on some level.

I know even though that's my first point of call when a player leaves. I get a similar impression.

 

[betcats]

There have been rumours of entitled attitudes amongst the playing causing issues. I honestly think Gus spent 4 or 5 years telling some of these guys how great they are going to be and it went to their heads a bit. Look at the contracts they were getting, 5 and 4 year deals on reportedly very good money.....I love Gus but I think he pumped some of these kids up way to much and they just expected everything to fall into place without working hard for it. You have to be a very level headed teenager and young adult to be given that kind of attention and contract and not get ahead of yourself a bit.

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

There have been rumours of entitled attitudes amongst the playing causing issues. I honestly think Gus spent 4 or 5 years telling some of these guys how great they are going to be and it went to their heads a bit. Look at the contracts they were getting, 5 and 4 year deals on reportedly very good money.....I love Gus but I think he pumped some of these kids up way to much and they just expected everything to fall into place without working hard for it. You have to be a very level headed teenager and young adult to be given that kind of attention and contract and not get ahead of yourself a bit.

So very very true. Like you love Gus to pieces but some of them like Reg where not just putting in enough week in week out to warrant the money being spent on them.

 

[Kilkenny]

There have been rumours of entitled attitudes amongst the playing causing issues. I honestly think Gus spent 4 or 5 years telling some of these guys how great they are going to be and it went to their heads a bit. Look at the contracts they were getting, 5 and 4 year deals on reportedly very good money.....I love Gus but I think he pumped some of these kids up way to much and they just expected everything to fall into place without working hard for it. You have to be a very level headed teenager and young adult to be given that kind of attention and contract and not get ahead of yourself a bit.

Gus loved the kids there was nothing wrong with that or what he did. Some of his long term deals to many such as Moylan, Cartwright, RCG, Blake etc few could question at
the time. The dynamics change very quickly in the game. Who would have thought Latrell Mitchell would be playing anywhere else other than the Roosters. Things happen.

If you look at the long term contracts which were handed out Moylan fell out big time with Hook, Cartwright had his relationship woes, Blake had off field indiscretions, there were others things that just happen. Not the fault of Gus, just things that happened beyond his control.

For me his biggest mistake was the fat long term contract to RCG. Despite his SOO selection which was largely on the back of his supposed agression he never at any stage delivered the sorts of results (stats I guess) comparable to the better front rowers in the game. I said it at the time when his contract was up for renewal that he wasn’t delivering what a front rower should for $700K or more a season.

Anyway the playing group at the moment are said to be solid even if there are rumours about a certain forward being tapped up by the Bunnies. If that forward who ever he is doesn’t what to be at the Panthers or has done something to make him surplus to requirements then perhaps we should release that player regardeless of who it may be.

 

[betcats]

Gus loved the kids there was nothing wrong with that or what he did. Some of his long term deals to many such as Moylan, Cartwright, RCG, Blake etc few could question at
the time. The dynamics change very quickly in the game. Who would have thought Latrell Mitchell would be playing anywhere else other than the Roosters. Things happen.

If you look at the long term contracts which were handed out Moylan fell out big time with Hook, Cartwright had his relationship woes, Blake had off field indiscretions, there were others things that just happen. Not the fault of Gus, just things that happened beyond his control.

For me his biggest mistake was the fat long term contract to RCG. Despite his SOO selection which was largely on the back of his supposed agression he never at any stage delivered the sorts of results (stats I guess) comparable to the better front rowers in the game. I said it at the time when his contract was up for renewal that he wasn’t delivering what a front rower should for $700K or more a season.

Anyway the playing group at the moment are said to be solid even if there are rumours about a certain forward being tapped up by the Bunnies. If that forward who ever he is doesn’t what to be at the Panthers or has done something to make him surplus to requirements then perhaps we should release that player regardeless of who it may be.

I know Gus loved the kids and I probably defended some of those contracts myself at the time as I am a big believer in Gus. I am trying not to be critical but look at the players that came through that gun 2013 nyc side, the team Gus was dreaming about winning us premierships...there is only Yeo left. Dallin, Waqa, Carty, RCG..they all have left on fairly bad terms with the club, none of them lived up to their potential so far, a couple had one off seasons that were great but that is it.

 

[kinghippo]

I can understand Ellis going perhaps, anyone above him in the pecking order we have no reason to let go that I can see...

Moses leota hasn’t been mentioned but he would be a good buy for Souths.
There are a few props not going to get many minutes, especially if the fish moves out of the back row.

 

[franklin2323]

I know Gus loved the kids and I probably defended some of those contracts myself at the time as I am a big believer in Gus. I am trying not to be critical but look at the players that came through that gun 2013 nyc side, the team Gus was dreaming about winning us premierships...there is only Yeo left. Dallin, Waqa, Carty, RCG..they all have left on fairly bad terms with the club, none of them lived up to their potential so far, a couple had one off seasons that were great but that is it.

I have been Gus’ biggest critic but it goes both ways. Player needs to put in to get to the potential that is the step I see missed

 

[betcats]

Moses leota hasn’t been mentioned but he would be a good buy for Souths.
There are a few props not going to get many minutes, especially if the fish moves out of the back row.

I like Moses, I know we have a number of props but Id like to keep Moses, he is a solid rotation prop currently and entering his prime coming off a good season and having to fight just to get a spot on the bench., If he has another level to go to I think we will see it in 2020.

 

[Pomoz]

I know Gus loved the kids and I probably defended some of those contracts myself at the time as I am a big believer in Gus. I am trying not to be critical but look at the players that came through that gun 2013 nyc side, the team Gus was dreaming about winning us premierships...there is only Yeo left. Dallin, Waqa, Carty, RCG..they all have left on fairly bad terms with the club, none of them lived up to their potential so far, a couple had one off seasons that were great but that is it.

I remember hearing Gus talking on a podcast about Ponga at the Knights. He basically said, brilliant though he is, he still needs coaching to get the best out of him and to develop him to the best he can be.

I think there are many reasons to where these players have ended up, but it all starts with the coaching. Most of them started their coaching in first grade with Cleary. They produced their best under Hook with the 3 semi-final appearances and then they were under Cleary again last year. Some of them for part of the year. You can draw your own conclusions from that.

The contracts Gus signed them on would have had next to no impact on their performances, in fact since the view is they were a tad generous then they probably should have been happy and motivated. At the end of the day, they spent every day with the coach and his support team, not Gus.

 

[Kilkenny]

I know Gus loved the kids and I probably defended some of those contracts myself at the time as I am a big believer in Gus. I am trying not to be critical but look at the players that came through that gun 2013 nyc side, the team Gus was dreaming about winning us premierships...there is only Yeo left. Dallin, Waqa, Carty, RCG..they all have left on fairly bad terms with the club, none of them lived up to their potential so far, a couple had one off seasons that were great but that is it.

I know mate but the majority of those you mention left because of off field issues, either discipline, not buying into the player culture or whatever and had to be let go. I don’t really have an issue with any of them to be honest. DWZ was great for the Bulldogs last season and that is because he is a fine player, Bryce is the biggest disappointment of all time quite frankly, Waqa untapped talent but he is no youngster anymore and needs to deliver on his undoubted ability and last but not least RCG who sadly was Gould’s biggest mistake. RCG was a one trick pony with his aggression and when that didn’t’ work he had no other attributes. So really when you drill down further into our Gus era we have nothing to be ashamed off the nucleus of the current top 30 was still built by Gus and with a little luck we might actually go alright this season.

 

[betcats]

I have been Gus’ biggest critic but it goes both ways. Player needs to put in to get to the potential that is the step I see missed

Not trying to take away from this at all, the players are responsible for themselves and their effort but if these kids are developing a sense of entitlement at the club we are going to keep seeing kids leave before we get the best out of them.

 

[betcats]

I remember hearing Gus talking on a podcast about Ponga at the Knights. He basically said, brilliant though he is, he still needs coaching to get the best out of him and to develop him to the best he can be.

I think there are many reasons to where these players have ended up, but it all starts with the coaching. Most of them started their coaching in first grade with Cleary. They produced their best under Hook with the 3 semi-final appearances and then they were under Cleary again last year. Some of them for part of the year. You can draw your own conclusions from that.

The contracts Gus signed them on would have had next to no impact on their performances, in fact since the view is they were a tad generous then they probably should have been happy and motivated. At the end of the day, they spent every day with the coach and his support team, not Gus.

There aren't many conclusions to draw from 20-22 year olds performing better then they did at 18-20 particularly as professional athletes. Physically they developed and improved and they gained experience.

 

[Kilkenny]

I have been Gus’ biggest critic but it goes both ways. Player needs to put in to get to the potential that is the step I see missed

You have been the biggest critic of Gus and frankly I don’t see any basis for the criticism.

Gus wanted to win in a premiership in his time here and he didn’t quite deliver but it wasn’t though want of trying and frankly we did pretty well under his leadership.

 

[Pomoz]

There aren't many conclusions to draw from 20-22 year olds performing better then they did at 18-20 particularly as professional athletes. Physically they developed and improved and they gained experience.

And last year? DWZ, Blake, RCG leaving? From SOO fringes to leaving the club? Those remaining hardly shot the lights out either. Cleary, Yeo, Edwards, Leota, Katoa, Egan, how did they go?

Anyway the point is, it isn't Gus's fault how these players have developed. It comes down to coaching and the players own personality. For example, I'm no Nathan Cleary fan, but he is dedicated and hard working and his personality gives him a great platform to improve. He just needs good coaching to get the best out of him. There is a question of whether his "best" level is good enough, but that is a question of talent not attitude. It won't be because of his attitude if he doesn't become an elite halfback.

 

[franklin2323]

You have been the biggest critic of Gus and frankly I don’t see any basis for the criticism.

Gus wanted to win in a premiership in his time here and he didn’t quite deliver but it wasn’t though want of trying and frankly we did pretty well under his leadership.

Well who has left and kicked on? If it was coaching why would they not be stars now?

How many current origin players come from Gus’ time here?

Players just weren’t good enough

 

[betcats]

And last year? DWZ, Blake, RCG leaving? From SOO fringes to leaving the club? Those remaining hardly shot the lights out either. Cleary, Yeo, Edwards, Leota, Katoa, Egan, how did they go?
.

Attitude and disruption in the squad, Dallin has said he was incredibly unhappy here that he didn't want to play anymore, Blade who has great inside information to the point where he is obviously employed at the club said Waqa did something to piss off the entire playing group. These guys leave and we go on a winning streak ffs its pretty obvious there was behind the scenes issues with them both.

RCGs decline started under Hook.

How did our rookies last year do so well under Cleary if these others couldn't? Im sorry but the idea that Ivan held those guys back with poor coaching doesn't stack up at all. Dallin got picked for the kiwis tour at 18 under Ivan’s coaching, his best run of form might’ve been in 2015 at fullback before get got hurt. RCG played one year under Ivan prior to 2019 and it was a very good Rookie year for RCG in which he played city origin and in the PMs Roos team.

 

[franklin2323]

Not trying to take away from this at all, the players are responsible for themselves and their effort but if these kids are developing a sense of entitlement at the club we are going to keep seeing kids leave before we get the best out of them.

Exactly. You can only do so much for them and when you get to that level everyone is just as good. It takes extra to get to the best again

 

[herbert henry1908]

Undoubtedly players have been moved on because of bad attitudes, but it’s also the clubs role to manage players attitudes. That’s not going to always be possible, but good leadership can keep guys in line.

I don’t think the cut & run model is sustainable.