Rumoured and Confirmed signings - Part 4

[OldPanther]

Undoubtedly players have been moved on because of bad attitudes, but it’s also the clubs role to manage players attitudes. That’s not going to always be possible, but good leadership can keep guys in line.

I don’t think the cut & run model is sustainable.

It's not. The best clubs, at least outwardly, seem to have a balance between keeping players in line and cutting players.

 

[franklin2323]

It's not. The best clubs, at least outwardly, seem to have a balance between keeping players in line and cutting players.

Give us great players and we would keep them more then now. All part of trying to find the right mix the stupid contract lengths made it look worse then it should is all

 

[OldPanther]

Give us great players and we would keep them more then now. All part of trying to find the right mix the stupid contract lengths made it look worse then it should is all

I think most were skeptical of the long contracts. Even for players that they liked.

 

[franklin2323]

I think most were skeptical of the long contracts. Even for players that they liked.

Take Merrin. He gets a 3 year deal (which I think is max) then he is just not re-signed and not released

 

[Pomoz]

Attitude and disruption in the squad, Dallin has said he was incredibly unhappy here that he didn't want to play anymore, Blade who has great inside information to the point where he is obviously employed at the club said Waqa did something to piss off the entire playing group. These guys leave and we go on a winning streak ffs its pretty obvious there was behind the scenes issues with them both.

RCGs decline started under Hook.

How did our rookies last year do so well under Cleary if these others couldn't? Im sorry but the idea that Ivan held those guys back with poor coaching doesn't stack up at all. Dallin got picked for the kiwis tour at 18 under Ivan’s coaching, his best run of form might’ve been in 2015 at fullback before get got hurt. RCG played one year under Ivan prior to 2019 and it was a very good Rookie year for RCG in which he played city origin and in the PMs Roos team.

Ok, if it wasn't poor coaching that delivered last years result, what was it? And the year he left when we finished 15th, that wasn't coaching either?

RCG was picked for NSW under Hook, yet somehow his decline started under Hook. Five years of results. The three years in the middle we made the semi finals under Hook. Draw your own conclusions about that.

 

[betcats]

Ok, if it wasn't poor coaching that delivered last years result, what was it? And the year he left when we finished 15th, that wasn't coaching either?

RCG was picked for NSW under Hook, yet somehow his decline started under Hook. Five years of results. The three years in the middle we made the semi finals under Hook. Draw your own conclusions about that.

So when we made the prelim in 2014 that was better coaching then hook ever gave us since it was a better result then he ever got with us???

Your comment is so generalised and stupid. Coaching plays a part in every result but there are many other factors also.

In any case we were talking about player development not overall team performance, stop moving the goalpost. RCGs decline 100 percent started when he broke his jaw, that is a common opinion here, when was that?

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

Surely as a grown up professional elite footy player (on a large salary) you are responsible for your own performance. To bame only the coach is showing an agenda.

Sure a coach bears some responsibility and so does the player. Cleary has already come out and spoke about last year, the changes that have been made, especially in the field of attitude and mental toughness.
Also Cleary has ramped up the training throughout the pre season. The players look fitter than for a number of years. So in my opinion Cleary is attempting to address the issues.


It's up to the inidvidual player to do the extra, mindfulness training, look after their body, work as a team member. Lastly to have a positive attitude and mindset about team and club first.


Did Reg attempt to address the issues he had ?

 

[Pomoz]

Well who has left and kicked on? If it was coaching why would they not be stars now?

How many current origin players come from Gus’ time here?

Players just weren’t good enough

No coach, Bennett, Robinson and Bellamy included, can turn a player into Dally Messenger if they don't have the talent. The debate is about getting the most out of what they have. With a few notable exceptions like JFH, most players were worse this year than the year before.

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

No coach, Bennett, Robinson and Bellamy included, can turn a player into Dally Messenger if they don't have the talent. The debate is about getting the most out of what they have. With a few notable exceptions like JFH, most players were worse this year than the year before.

We are in 2020 you know. Not 2019.

 

[Pomoz]

Surely as a grown up professional elite footy player (on a large salary) you are responsible for your own performance. To bame only the coach is showing an agenda.

Sure a coach bears some responsibility and so does the player. Cleary has already come out and spoke about last year, the changes that have been made, especially in the field of attitude and mental toughness.
Also Cleary has ramped up the training throughout the pre season. The players look fitter than for a number of years. So in my opinion Cleary is attempting to address the issues.


It's up to the inidvidual player to do the extra, mindfulness training, look after their body, work as a team member. Lastly to have a positive attitude and mindset about team and club first.


Did Reg attempt to address the issues he had ?

Of course a player's attitude plays a big part (hello Mr Moylan, how's your hamstring?), but in every sport, a coach makes the most difference to where a team finishes. A good coach will change a payers attitude and values and those that don't change will be moved on. Where it gets difficult is when a group of players performance drops when the coach changes. Why? I think the answer is obvious. You could argue that when a player that performs well under coach X, but has a bad attitude under coach Y, that the it's the players problem. I think that's fair, but when there is a whole group of them, well that's a pattern that tells you the issue is the coach not the players. I am not suggesting that Cleary has done the wrong thing in releasing players, this season will show whether he has got it right. I hope he is right and we improve this year with the changes he has made.

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

I would suggest that one sex tape scandal had a huge impact on 2019'2 performances. So that doesn't fit into your simplistic theory.

There are very few things in life that is black and white. Footy has many shades of grey and contributing forces.

How bout when Robinson first went to the chooks, Australia day dogszilla occured. Chooks didn't make the finals that year. Was that Robinson's fault.

Penrith 2019 similar. Very similar.

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

2016 Roosters finished 15th.

 

[Pomoz]

I would suggest that one sex tape scandal had a huge impact on 2019'2 performances. So that doesn't fit into your simplistic theory.

There are very few things in life that is black and white. Footy has many shades of grey and contributing forces.

How bout when Robinson first went to the chooks, Australia day dogszilla occured. Chooks didn't make the finals that year. Was that Robinson's fault.

Penrith 2019 similar. Very similar.

There is nothing simplistic about suggesting that a coach has a massive influence on how a team performs. Of course there are complicating factors and mitigating circumstances in any season. However, Cleary has been a coach for 331 games with a win percentage of 47%. I am sure we can explain away every year of his coaching career where his teams didn't make the semi finals by coming up with some shade of grey.

Robinson has coached for 263 games at a win rate of 63% and 3 premierships, he is allowed a bad season.

 

[Pomoz]

How bout when Robinson first went to the chooks, Australia day dogszilla occured. Chooks didn't make the finals that year. Was that Robinson's fault.

Yes. If you are the coach you are responsible. He kept his job so Politis obviously felt that, on balance it wasn't all just down to the coach and he could turn it around. Turns out Politis was right.

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

There is nothing simplistic about suggesting that a coach has a massive influence on how a team performs. Of course there are complicating factors and mitigating circumstances in any season. However, Cleary has been a coach for 331 games with a win percentage of 47%. I am sure we can explain away every year of his coaching career where his teams didn't make the semi finals by coming up with some shade of grey.

Robinson has coached for 263 games at a win rate of 63% and 3 premierships, he is allowed a bad season.

Your changing your tune now. Earlier you stated that the coach was to be held solely to blame when a team fails to perform.

Now your backing away from it. I can feel those goal posts being moved again.

2 of the 3 premierships you fondly speak of with Robinson. 2016 was before that. So the win % you quoted means very little.

I'm not going over what I previously wrote. But will finish by saying this. I believe you have decided that Cleary should wear the black cowboy hat and that is final .Never mind what the facts or circrumstances were.

 

[Blade23]

Ex Panther not current and unsigned. No need for Souths to be sniffing around our club in his case.
Its someone else if true.

I have just read Liam Knight has spurned interest from the Titans and is staying a Rabbit, don't know if that changes things their end. The Titans were chasing hard apparently.

Sele is on a trial and train contract with Souths. I wish him well he deserves a real go in FG should they give him a contract. He fell out of favour with Ivan and McGregor used him poorly.

You can thank the Titans for pushing up Knight's price. Souths will have to pay a lot more to retain him for next year and beyond. I suspect who they were looking at here was a fall back option should they have lost Knight.
Unless they move on AJ or Gagai they are going to be very tight next year with Arrow coming. They are still holding out a forlorn hope Arrow will come this year.

 

[Pomoz]

Your changing your tune now. Earlier you stated that the coach was to be held solely to blame when a team fails to perform.

Now your backing away from it. I can feel those goal posts being moved again.

2 of the 3 premierships you fondly speak of with Robinson. 2016 was before that. So the win % you quoted means very little.

I'm not going over what I previously wrote. But will finish by saying this. I believe you have decided that Cleary should wear the black cowboy hat and that is final .Never mind what the facts or circrumstances were.

Alice, perhaps you can quote me where I used the words "solely". Yes there were circumstances that didn't help. The sex tapes didn't help. Being coach when your star player is your son doesn't help either. The board and Gus parting didn't help.

But I am judging him on the 331 games, not a single season. The 2019 season just follows a trend of mediocrity that Cleary has delivered most of the time. We made the semi's three years in a row. On comes Mr 47% and there you go, semi finals finished. He delivered what his career average would indicate he would. 46% win rate.

You are correct that I think Cleary is a poor coach. He has yet to demonstrate otherwise and I am hoping this year he proves me wrong.

 

[franklin2323]

No coach, Bennett, Robinson and Bellamy included, can turn a player into Dally Messenger if they don't have the talent. The debate is about getting the most out of what they have. With a few notable exceptions like JFH, most players were worse this year than the year before.

So the May thing had no part in it?
Maloney form being ordinary was all coaching?
Kikau, Yeo being injured no part in them playing worse then the year before?
Edwards dropping the ball was due to coaching too?

Fact is it was one of those years. Almost half the squad is gone partly due to factors outside coaching

 

[age.s]

The May thing didn't help us, but the Walker situation wouldn't have helped Manly. The Wighton situation wouldn't have helped Canberra. The Eels and Rabbits had numerous off field incidents and had pretty good years last year.

Off field drama is something clubs/coaches need to deal with. It's part of the games fabric now. To the extent the May issue derailed our performance, Cleary needs to take responsibility for not being able to right the ship.

Who cares though? It's in the past and we're stuck with Dave's Mate for the foreseeable future. Let's see how he gets the team playing this year.

 

[franklin2323]

The May thing didn't help us, but the Walker situation wouldn't have helped Manly. The Wighton situation wouldn't have helped Canberra. The Eels and Rabbits had numerous off field incidents and had pretty good years last year.

Off field drama is something clubs/coaches need to deal with. It's part of the games fabric now. To the extent the May issue derailed our performance, Cleary needs to take responsibility for not being able to right the ship.

Who cares though? It's in the past and we're stuck with Dave's Mate for the foreseeable future. Let's see how he gets the team playing this year.

Most of the areas we are bad in have been the case for seasons. Just pulled tries out late to win. So the season was good for not hiding that