Team v Dolphins

[Izz]

He also started at centre last game of last season

 

[Thatwasnthighref]

Pretty sure he played centre for Storm in their S G Ball comp and he definitely played centre for us in his first season in the NSW cup as he was named at centre in the 2016 NSW Cup team of the year.
But its been awhile.

Oh yea I know he’s played other spots in other grades/teams. Lots of wing in his first stint with us, couple of Kiwi tests at centre, couple of games at 6 for us last year.

But for the Raiders first grade team, pretty sure just fb. Not that it matters too much… despite his versatility Webster would rather shuffle around everyone else than shift him.

 

[Wheeled Warrior]

Oh yea I know he’s played other spots in other grades/teams. Lots of wing in his first stint with us, couple of Kiwi tests at centre, couple of games at 6 for us last year.

But for the Raiders first grade team, pretty sure just fb. Not that it matters too much… despite his versatility Webster would rather shuffle around everyone else than shift him.

Yup anyone that has CNK listed as centre has not paid attention to Webster's ways.

 

[Wheeled Warrior]

I learnt my lesson lol

 

[JJ]

Super unlikely, of course, but how about:

1 - TT
2 - DWZ
3 - Pompey
4 - CNK
5 - RTS

I don’t mind that…. But, we’re going well…. I’d like to see TT stay in the team and never been a DWZ fan….

 

[JJ]

I will be interested to see how we handle Herbie this year. Last year against us it was like he had spiders on him all game.

I think that’s the danger…. Our backs/edges are pretty ordinary and good players/teams/plans should be able to expose that …

But things are going f**king well atm

 

[Blair]

TT has attacking x-factor, we should never pass that over. Any broken play in the opposition ten and Taine is a menace.

 

[JJ]

TT has attacking x-factor, we should never pass that over. Any broken play in the opposition ten and Taine is a menace.

Same with RTS, I want em both

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

I feel kinda sorry for CNK. I see his limitations like everyone else does, but overall I think he's been pretty outstanding for us but his spot seems to be constantly in question based on hypotheticals about how well someone else might go in his spot. All the while, he's breaking tackles and churning out 200m a game and seemingly getting very little credit for doing largely the same stuff he was getting massive praise for in 2023.

It almost feels like sacrilege to say this, but I'm not entirely convinced we'd get the same sort of consistent output from RTS or TT. RTS is not 2018 RTS anymore and TT is a different sort of player,

 

[Thatwasnthighref]

I feel kinda sorry for CNK. I see his limitations like everyone else does, but overall I think he's been pretty outstanding for us but his spot seems to be constantly in question based on hypotheticals about how well someone else might go in his spot. All the while, he's breaking tackles and churning out 200m a game and seemingly getting very little credit for doing largely the same stuff he was getting massive praise for in 2023.

It almost feels like sacrilege to say this, but I'm not entirely convinced we'd get the same sort of consistent output from RTS or TT. RTS is not 2018 RTS anymore and TT is a different sort of player,

Yea CNK is a warrior in every sense of the word and every time I’m critical of him (like when he was extended) I feel like I’m kicking Bambi a little bit. I’m not entirely sold on Taine being the long-term answer either to be fair, but I do like the fact he’s probably the least predictable of the 3.

But on RTS, I’m still convinced he’d offer as much, if not more than CNK if given an extended run back at fb. And I think his #’s support that.

In the two games he started at fb last year he ran for nearly 300m each time. Across the whole season, he averaged 182m pg, compared to CNK’s average of 202 pg.

But RTS did that while stating 13/18 games at centre and therefore with very little kick return meters. He also did it while regularly being shunted around to plug holes; I’ve mentioned this before but he played every single outside back spot for the team last year, on both sides of the field. Despite all that, to still be within 20m pg run metres of CNK is remarkable.

I know there are other measures of a fb’s effectiveness but we’ve long viewed CNK’s work rate and effort as his greatest asset, and run meters is a strong indicator of that, particularly when viewed over a whole season to smooth out anomalies.

And on that particular measure, as recently as last year, IMO Roger tops him and quite comfortably too.

 

[JJ]

I feel kinda sorry for CNK. I see his limitations like everyone else does, but overall I think he's been pretty outstanding for us but his spot seems to be constantly in question based on hypotheticals about how well someone else might go in his spot. All the while, he's breaking tackles and churning out 200m a game and seemingly getting very little credit for doing largely the same stuff he was getting massive praise for in 2023.

It almost feels like sacrilege to say this, but I'm not entirely convinced we'd get the same sort of consistent output from RTS or TT. RTS is not 2018 RTS anymore and TT is a different sort of player,

yep - all three should be in run on team imo though

 

[ozenzud]

Roger or CNK at fullback, while different players, are both good options. TT at fullback, is a completely different player with different ads and alts but a good option.

At centre, RTS and CNK are lesser options than others in the club, except if there are injuries.

RTS on the wing is a good option fullstop.

TT on the wing has some issues (height) but defensively, he's actually been OK and some inconsistent games, but pretty good.

What I'm saying is that CNK, RTS and TT are all good fullback options that create different opportunities.

TT and RTS are good wing options.

I'm no longer a DWZ fan because of his defence. I stopped coaching 10 years or more ago. So I'm a dinosaur, but I also used to say, a winger only has to defend one man. His opposite. Stay on your man, as the cover has less far to go to take the inside man in an overlap situation.

I know modern wisdom is you make them pass which might draw a mistake or has the advantage of pushing them wider for the conversion. But I prefer the old fashioned winger option, stay on your man.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

But on RTS, I’m still convinced he’d offer as much, if not more than CNK if given an extended run back at fb. And I think his #’s support that.

In the two games he started at fb last year he ran for nearly 300m each time. Across the whole season, he averaged 182m pg, compared to CNK’s average of 202 pg.

Good points. I didn't know those stats and they surprise me. Aside from a couple of games where he played well at fullback my sense was RTS had been underwhelming since his return and that was part of my reasoning for why I'm not convinced he'd really be better than CNK.

Probably a big part of my perception of RTS being "underwhelming" is just injuries and general unavailability, including injuries during his Union stint. Between pulling the pin early in 2021, Union, missing a few games and being shuffled around last year and now his injury this year, he hasn't really played a full season since 2020, arguably 2019. That's partly why I may have sort of mentally moved past RTS, when actually his form has been fine.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

I feel kinda sorry for CNK. I see his limitations like everyone else does, but overall I think he's been pretty outstanding for us but his spot seems to be constantly in question based on hypotheticals about how well someone else might go in his spot. All the while, he's breaking tackles and churning out 200m a game and seemingly getting very little credit for doing largely the same stuff he was getting massive praise for in 2023.

It almost feels like sacrilege to say this, but I'm not entirely convinced we'd get the same sort of consistent output from RTS or TT. RTS is not 2018 RTS anymore and TT is a different sort of player,

Agree, and the man who matters the most, rates him the most. A lot of the conjecture, as you say, relates to how people remember RTS as a Dally M winner in 2018, and how Charnze is not a guy who makes 10 tackle breaks, 5 line breaks, and can finish a move himself from 80m out. But clearly he has outstanding things in his game, which are no doubt metre making, defensive organisation, on line D, and so on.

Thing is, a lot of guys in squads across the NRL could play fullback, and play it very well. We have a bunch - RTS, TT, CNK, Metcalf was a junior rep fullback, TMM dominated at NSW Cup level there, DWZ played for the Kiwis and captained them outstandingly well there, so there's actually a whole back line of guys who would probably be near NRL level at No.1.

Only one gets to play there. A lot of it is around comparative advantage. Is RTS the best fullback, purely head-to-head? Maybe. But maybe also our best side is him at wing, CNK at fullback, and so on with the squad we have

 

[Penrose Warrior]

I'm no longer a DWZ fan because of his defence. I stopped coaching 10 years or more ago. So I'm a dinosaur, but I also used to say, a winger only has to defend one man. His opposite. Stay on your man, as the cover has less far to go to take the inside man in an overlap situation.

I know modern wisdom is you make them pass which might draw a mistake or has the advantage of pushing them wider for the conversion. But I prefer the old fashioned winger option, stay on your man.

Same. He looks like an absolute ripping bloke, and obviously became a cult hero in 2023. Some of that is the hair, although he's not exactly Wolfman circa 2008 (a bog average player who became a rep player based on his beard and being on the end of a dominant backline, and was found to be severely lacking).

I've always been surprised it's not talked about more. No winger in the comp gets his hands on the opposition's passes nearly as much as DWZ, and that isn't a compliment. He gets itchy feet and jams in with regularity - even when playing outside decent defensive centres.

 

[Wheeled Warrior]

DWZ is a fullback and he's pretty good there. I know he played wing and centres for most part of his career. His defense with coming off his wing to try get intercepts is annoying but in form he gets most of them. I personally think many people overlook CNK's flaws too. He's been a bit iffy under the high balls and tends to jump at the wrong time or when it's not required. If we going to point out DWZ's flaws we should be more balanced across the team with the criticism.

01. DWZ.
02. TT.
05. RTS.

Isn't too bad of a lineup. DWZ defense is more solid in field.

CNK is a lock for #1 but his body may give in soon. It will open up some interesting scenarios.