DRAGONS NEW CEO TIM WATSFORD

[possm]

Said at the start of the week Kyle was bought as a 14 & has to fill a role due to Amone & Hunt situations has always been a stop gap solution.

Kyle wants to be a 7 on halfback coin, and his father wants the same. However, Kyle is a 14 at best but can't fill that role because Flanno bought Cook.

 

[possm]

I thought Reed was the next big thing now that we let Glover go, then the CEO says we're going to go after a marquee halfback of which only one or two will be on the market and all of a sudden everyone gets excited and no mention of Reed anymore.

It is sad how a few meek words from someone in authority can make so many fans forget all the issues at the club.

Not really. A marquee halfback for two years (DCE) would be just what is needed at this stage of Reed's career. DCE would also be the half's partner that Atkinson would need in 2026-2027.

 

[2218]

Kyle wants to be a 7 on halfback coin, and his father wants the same. However, Kyle is a 14 at best but can't fill that role because Flanno bought Cook

Kyle wants to be a 7 on halfback coin, and his father wants the same. However, Kyle is a 14 at best but can't fill that role because Flanno bought Cook.

Where's ya source possum? I can't find anywhere that either Flanagan said anything remotely close to what your suggesting or is it just your opinion?

 

[possm]

Where's ya source possum? I can't find anywhere that either Flanagan said anything remotely close to what your suggesting or is it just your opinion?

My opinion.

 

[John moz]

Marquee is no 7 is Metcalf from warriors he was a junior at sharks and played with aitkin in the halves .

 

[saintmar]

Very well said and I agree 100%

On reflection I think the remarks from Watsford about trying to sign a marquee half, was a bit of a power play to make it clear to Shane Flanagan that his son will not be playing half back next year. I'm sure both Shane and Kyle were taken aback by the CEO overriding them both in a public forum.

Besides that, we need a couple of marquee front rowers, we have second rowers coming out the wazoo, but the front row needs to be improved upon and should be the highest priority IMO.

Spot on
It’s a
sit down boy I’ll tell you how things are going to be run

 

[Hound of Dracula]

All good buddy if you don't want to engage with some logical posts, then don't. You say you have me on ignore so keep it that way.

Hahahaha
Logical for this challenged individual = irrational, unreasonable, nonsensical, and inconsistent.

Makes sense to him!

 

[Willow]

Thank you this is a very informative post.

So how do we undo this? How do we buy out WIN?

Well my point is that being a member of St George Illawarra gives you no voting rights. None, zero, zilch. Being a member of St George Leagues club only gives you voting rights for the Leagues Club board (provided you have been a member for three years). It gives you no say in the selection of St George Illawarra board members, either the ones selected by the St George Leagues club board or of course the ones selected by WIN or the one selected by Illawarra.

The other point I was trying to make is I really don't see any incentive for WIN to improve the club. St George Illawarra are just a very small part of their corporate assets. As long as StGI continues to generate a reasonable rate of return (which it looks like it does even when we've done nothing of note for years) then the corporate boffins will be happy. We're just a sideshow for them.

Make no mistake, if more fans became full financial members of St George Leagues Club, the JV board do notice. The last thing they want is the threat of a block vote against the St George board. We know this because the club imposed that 3 year wait in 2011 (to give full members a vote) after there was a block vote at Cronulla that ousted the board.

Never underestimate the level of influence St George has in this JV. Plus at this point, being a full member of St George Leagues Club is a fan's only real avenue to have a say in what happens.

We've seen challenges before, and even though they were unsuccessful in the vote, they were successful in shaking things up. And despite what we may think, there are those in the hierarchy that want to see things shaken up from time to time. Results did come from these challenges.

So the best advice has always been to join the St George Leagues Club as a full member (with voting rights). 5 year membership is available.

 

[possm]

Spot on
It’s a
sit down boy I’ll tell you how things are going to be run

Send the same message to Craig and Dean Young.

 

[Carrera28]

There was an agreement that if either side wanted out the other side had first option or had to agree to the new buyer.

That's why it took so long to come up with WIN as the new owners of the last half of Steelers share. St George Leagues wanted to buy taking them to 75% ownership to WINs 25%. The NRL did not approve it (and I don’t think the Steelers were happy with it) and it eventually went to WIN.

That is not true.

The St George Leagues club was more than willing to buy 100% of the club and had the available finances to do so.

The 75% comes from the fact that Illawarra had already sold half of their shares in Joint Venture to WIN previously. In 2006 Win bought half of the Steelers share of the Joint Venture.

When the Steelers were in financial difficulties St George offered to buy both WIN's share of the JV and the Steelers' share of the JV. WIN did not want to sell their shares, so the St George leagues club made an offer for 75% of the club, as only 25% was available for sale in addition to the 50% it already owned. It was neither their preferred option, nor was it their original offer which was to buy the whole club.

"There was an agreement that if either side wanted out the other side had first option or had to agree to the new buyer."

This is not something unique or special to the Joint Venture Company, it is a commonplace clause in the articles for propriety companies (companies not not listed on stock exchange). It simply means that if Illawarra wanted to sell their shares, they could not exclude St George Leagues from the bid process.

It did not give St George Leagues club an exclusive right to buy the shares uncontested and did not even guarantee them the right if their bid was highest (which it was). In reality the practical purpose of that clause, is it means a new co-owner cannot be introduced as a surprise and St George has to be given right to bid.

In 2006 St George Leagues Club offered more than WIN and the Steelers sold 25% to WIN and in the 2016-2018 debacle, St George Leagues offered more than WIN and the Steelers sold the remaining 25% to WIN

The NRL did not care whether St George Leagues Club or WIN Corporation bought the Steelers' remaining 25%.

The main concern the NRL has with ownership is making sure that the new ownership structure is solvent (so they do not have to bail them out) and that they are an appropriate owner.

The NRL did not get in the way of St George Leagues Club buying the Steelers' 25% in the 2016-2018 period, their involvement was purely in an oversight capacity to ensure there were no salary cap, solvency or inappropriate ownership implications.

The reason WIN got decided as owner was because the Illawarra Board made it clear that was the only organisation they would sell to.

St George Leagues club which was effectively paying the debt of the Steelers either acquiesced to WIN as 50% owners and the interest liability disappeared or they had to wait out the Steelers until they went bankrupt as the Steelers made it clear they would not sell to anyone but WIN.

Waiting for Steelers to go bankrupt would have taken years, it could potentially have put the Joint Venture into Administration and ultimately WIN could have come out owning the whole club. Unlikely but not impossible.

WIN do not want to sell, because that would realise a taxable capital gain payable in Australia which for a company headquartered in a tax haven of Bahamas is not preferred. Plus the losses from the Dragons JV would not longer be available to offset their Australian Income from WIN Corp so they would pay more tax.

Remember much of the share ownership was done via balance sheet transactions cancelling debt that Steelers owed WIN, so buying the 50% of the club cost them very little cash and was effectively a balance sheet adjustment.

The Steelers have lumbered us with an owner who has a direct financial interest in our club remaining a loss making enterprise and who wants to spend as little cash as possible since most of their cash is offshore in the Bahamas.

We got lumbered with WIN because of the Steelers. The St George Leagues Club was willing and financially able to buy 100% of the club at the time and remains able to do so at present; the only obstacle is WIN, who do not want to pay the tax bill that would come with the sale.

 

[Gardenia]

Make no mistake, if more fans became full financial members of St George Leagues Club, the JV board do notice. The last thing they want is the threat of a block vote against the St George board. We know this because the club imposed that 3 year wait in 2011 (to give full members a vote) after there was a block vote at Cronulla that ousted the board.

Never underestimate the level of influence St George has in this JV. Plus at this point, being a full member of St George Leagues Club is a fan's only real avenue to have a say in what happens.

We've seen challenges before, and even though they were unsuccessful in the vote, they were successful in shaking things up. And despite what we may think, there are those in the hierarchy that want to see things shaken up from time to time. Results did come from these challenges.

So the best advice has always been to join the St George Leagues Club as a full member (with voting rights). 5 year membership is available.

Thank you. I am considering doing this

 

[denis preston]

Thank you. I am considering doing this

I’m only a 5 year member because of this

 

[Gardenia]

I’m only a 5 year member because of this

So I’m assuming we need to physically go to the leagues club to join?

 

[Willow]

So I’m assuming we need to physically go to the leagues club to join?

I found this online:

St.George Rewards

ST.GEORGE Rewards is the Club’s exclusive loyalty program for members giving you discounts off restaurants and bars as well as at Reception.

stgeorgeleagues.com.au

After you fill in your details, it will give you the options of Associate Memberships or FULL 5 YEAR MEMBERSHIP. Select the FULL 5 YEAR option. The Associate options do not allow you to vote.

I'm not sure why, but they seem to encourage you to be a non-voting member. But go for 5 YEAR.

 

[blacksafake]

I found this online:

St.George Rewards

ST.GEORGE Rewards is the Club’s exclusive loyalty program for members giving you discounts off restaurants and bars as well as at Reception.

stgeorgeleagues.com.au

After you fill in your details, it will give you the options of Associate Memberships or FULL 5 YEAR MEMBERSHIP. Select the FULL 5 YEAR option. The Associate options do not allow you to vote.

I'm not sure why, but they seem to encourage you to be a non-voting member. But go for 5 YEAR.

Thanks Willow,
Will do.

 

[Bunga]

Just signed up, full member for 5 years,

 

[Gardenia]

I found this online:

St.George Rewards

ST.GEORGE Rewards is the Club’s exclusive loyalty program for members giving you discounts off restaurants and bars as well as at Reception.

stgeorgeleagues.com.au

After you fill in your details, it will give you the options of Associate Memberships or FULL 5 YEAR MEMBERSHIP. Select the FULL 5 YEAR option. The Associate options do not allow you to vote.

I'm not sure why, but they seem to encourage you to be a non-voting member. But go for 5 YEAR.

Thanks that’s easy I’m doing it now

 

[The Word]

That is not true.

The St George Leagues club was more than willing to buy 100% of the club and had the available finances to do so.

The 75% comes from the fact that Illawarra had already sold half of their shares in Joint Venture to WIN previously. In 2006 Win bought half of the Steelers share of the Joint Venture.

When the Steelers were in financial difficulties St George offered to buy both WIN's share of the JV and the Steelers' share of the JV. WIN did not want to sell their shares, so the St George leagues club made an offer for 75% of the club, as only 25% was available for sale in addition to the 50% it already owned. It was neither their preferred option, nor was it their original offer which was to buy the whole club.

"There was an agreement that if either side wanted out the other side had first option or had to agree to the new buyer."

This is not something unique or special to the Joint Venture Company, it is a commonplace clause in the articles for propriety companies (companies not not listed on stock exchange). It simply means that if Illawarra wanted to sell their shares, they could not exclude St George Leagues from the bid process.

It did not give St George Leagues club an exclusive right to buy the shares uncontested and did not even guarantee them the right if their bid was highest (which it was). In reality the practical purpose of that clause, is it means a new co-owner cannot be introduced as a surprise and St George has to be given right to bid.

In 2006 St George Leagues Club offered more than WIN and the Steelers sold 25% to WIN and in the 2016-2018 debacle, St George Leagues offered more than WIN and the Steelers sold the remaining 25% to WIN

The NRL did not care whether St George Leagues Club or WIN Corporation bought the Steelers' remaining 25%.

The main concern the NRL has with ownership is making sure that the new ownership structure is solvent (so they do not have to bail them out) and that they are an appropriate owner.

The NRL did not get in the way of St George Leagues Club buying the Steelers' 25% in the 2016-2018 period, their involvement was purely in an oversight capacity to ensure there were no salary cap, solvency or inappropriate ownership implications.

The reason WIN got decided as owner was because the Illawarra Board made it clear that was the only organisation they would sell to.

St George Leagues club which was effectively paying the debt of the Steelers either acquiesced to WIN as 50% owners and the interest liability disappeared or they had to wait out the Steelers until they went bankrupt as the Steelers made it clear they would not sell to anyone but WIN.

Waiting for Steelers to go bankrupt would have taken years, it could potentially have put the Joint Venture into Administration and ultimately WIN could have come out owning the whole club. Unlikely but not impossible.

WIN do not want to sell, because that would realise a taxable capital gain payable in Australia which for a company headquartered in a tax haven of Bahamas is not preferred. Plus the losses from the Dragons JV would not longer be available to offset their Australian Income from WIN Corp so they would pay more tax.

Remember much of the share ownership was done via balance sheet transactions cancelling debt that Steelers owed WIN, so buying the 50% of the club cost them very little cash and was effectively a balance sheet adjustment.

The Steelers have lumbered us with an owner who has a direct financial interest in our club remaining a loss making enterprise and who wants to spend as little cash as possible since most of their cash is offshore in the Bahamas.

We got lumbered with WIN because of the Steelers. The St George Leagues Club was willing and financially able to buy 100% of the club at the time and remains able to do so at present; the only obstacle is WIN, who do not want to pay the tax bill that would come with the sale.

Thanks - this is an insightful piece in terms of the machinations of the Win ownership deal.

I've often thought that sports administration is so easy to corrupt because government regulations are often lacking in this area. You see it from local sports clubs all the way up to FIFA. Self-serving individuals taking positions of influence and using them for their own benefit. It's the only way to explain some of the terrible decisions that are often made, and the conflicts of interest that are created.

My observation is that fans quite rightly look for someone to blame and end up on one side or the other of the joint venture debate, which I think is a distraction.

My personal opinion is that the St George Leagues Club has done nothing to warrant taking full control of the football club, or even retain their 50% shareholding. The leadership of the individuals involved has been very poor, lacking in long term vision, and unaware of how to run a football club in the modern era. We've been out-thought by so many other clubs, year after year.

If a stronger owner can be found, pressure should be put on both sides to sell.

 

[possm]

Well, from reading above, it seems that WIN just wants to use the St George Illawarra Club as a tax dodge and has no inclination to improve the Club's standing.

Talk about a bad partner, Illawarra seems to be the worst we could have been associated with.

 

[muzby]

I feel like this is important advice to add to this thread at this stage: