New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

[Matua]

At the risk of watering down origin ? Nope

Kiwis already have a massive base of players to pick from

It’s their fault they chose Stacey jones as coach when Madge wanted to continue as kiwis coach whilst coaching origin

Hughes for example playing half back for qld would be ridiculous

They literally smashed Australia in the final a few years ago under the current system

I assume he means players eligible under the current rules, not just opening it up to every player in the NRL.

If, to follow the theme of this thread, you want league to take over NZ, then the best Kiwis team is going to be an important step in that direction. Currently we don't have the best because some players who want to play for us can't do that and play origin, and other players who might play for us don't because they can play origin and for another national team.

Also, we don't have a massive base of players to pick from, look at how shit our squad was last year when we had a few "off season operations", even this year if not for Foran continuing to train we'd have a huge hole in our halves.

 

[Wb1234]

I assume he means players eligible under the current rules, not just opening it up to every player in the NRL.

If, to follow the theme of this thread, you want league to take over NZ, then the best Kiwis team is going to be an important step in that direction. Currently we don't have the best because some players who want to play for us can't do that and play origin, and other players who might play for us don't because they can play origin and for another national team.

Also, we don't have a massive base of players to pick from, look at how shit our squad was last year when we had a few "off season operations", even this year if not for Foran continuing to train we'd have a huge hole in our halves.

Not at the risk of diluting origin

Who do you lose anyway under the current rules ?

The players that choose Samoa and Tonga won’t start choosing nz if the rules change

A second nrl side is the most important next step for league

And potentially more money for the nzrl

 

[Matua]

Not at the risk of diluting origin

Who do you lose anyway under the current rules ?

The players that choose Samoa and Tonga won’t start choosing nz if the rules change

A second nrl side is the most important next step for league

And potentially more money for the nzrl

How does it dilute Origin? Don't you think Origin is being diluted by the fact that Casey McLean will never be able to play for NSW?

I think @jolly boys outing mentioned a number of players - Ponga, Weekes, Howarth. Plus, those players who chose the islands might not have. I don't expect any of them to switch, but Luai was Junior Kiwis captain. Take Mulitalo for example, was going to play for Samoa when he thought he was origin eligible, but instantly switched to NZ when not.

It's not an either/or between NZ2 and Origin eligibility.

 

[jolly boys outing]

At the risk of watering down origin ? Nope

Kiwis already have a massive base of players to pick from

It’s their fault they chose Stacey jones as coach when Madge wanted to continue as kiwis coach whilst coaching origin

Hughes for example playing half back for qld would be ridiculous

They literally smashed Australia in the final a few years ago under the current system

For me the problem that the kiwis have and face is quite unique in that because of large numbers of migration from NZ to Australia there’s a large minority of kiwi born kids who move to Australia at a young age and in some cases will have lived longer in Australia than their homeland and the lure of origin over representing their country of birth for those is too great.

in short the kiwi brand isn’t as big of a pull as Queensland or NSW is and I’d go one step further and say the all blacks as well obviously.

 

[Wb1234]

For me the problem that the kiwis have and face is quite unique in that because of large numbers of migration from NZ to Australia there’s a large minority of kiwi born kids who move to Australia at a young age and in some cases will have lived longer in Australia than their homeland and the lure of origin over representing their country of birth for those is too great.

in short the kiwi brand isn’t as big of a pull as Queensland or NSW is and I’d go one step further and say the all blacks as well obviously.

A lot of the kiwi nrl players at Aussie clubs have come over during their teens or been actively recruited by Aussie clubs

How does it dilute Origin? Don't you think Origin is being diluted by the fact that Casey McLean will never be able to play for NSW?

I think @jolly boys outing mentioned a number of players - Ponga, Weekes, Howarth. Plus, those players who chose the islands might not have. I don't expect any of them to switch, but Luai was Junior Kiwis captain. Take Mulitalo for example, was going to play for Samoa when he thought he was origin eligible, but instantly switched to NZ when not.

It's not an either/or between NZ2 and Origin eligibility.

I’ve got bad memories of the super league tri series

Origin is an Aussie thing between two states

If Samoa and Tonga become strong enough then eventually their players shouldn’t be in it either

Origin is worth around 100 million to the nrl

Does James fisher Harris get to play origin and captain nz ?

Luai didn’t even get picked for origin

At least the players you’ve got now picked nz over origin and samoa and Tonga

That’s not a bad thing

Kiwis brand is a weak one anyway it’s not moving the needle v all blacks any time soon

Super rugby and below is where union is weak and where the nrl should focus

 

[Matua]

A lot of the kiwi nrl players at Aussie clubs have come over during their teens or been actively recruited by Aussie clubs
I’ve got bad memories of the super league tri series

That’s not a bad thing

Kiwis brand is a weak one anyway it’s not moving the needle v all blacks any time soon

Super rugby and below is where union is weak and where the nrl should focus

I feel like you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.

Origin is worth around 100 million to the nrl

How is allowing Origin players eligible for NZ play for NZ going to impact that?

Origin is an Aussie thing between two states

Currently it's an Aussie and PI thing.

Does James fisher Harris get to play origin and captain nz ?

No, he's not eligible for Origin. Are you being deliberately obtuse?

Luai didn’t even get picked for origin

Luai has played 12 origin matches.

At least the players you’ve got now picked nz over origin and samoa and Tonga

The point is they shouldn't have to. I don't begrudge any player picking Origin, and/or the islands, except for that prick Taumalolo, but I do begrudge the fact that players can't pick NZ and Origin even they want to.

If Samoa and Tonga become strong enough then eventually their players shouldn’t be in it either

That time is now. They're both tier 1 on performance.

 

[Gobsmacked]

A lot of the kiwi nrl players at Aussie clubs have come over during their teens or been actively recruited by Aussie clubs
I’ve got bad memories of the super league tri series

Origin is an Aussie thing between two states

If Samoa and Tonga become strong enough then eventually their players shouldn’t be in it either

Origin is worth around 100 million to the nrl

Does James fisher Harris get to play origin and captain nz ?

Luai didn’t even get picked for origin

At least the players you’ve got now picked nz over origin and samoa and Tonga

That’s not a bad thing

Kiwis brand is a weak one anyway it’s not moving the needle v all blacks any time soon

Super rugby and below is where union is weak and where the nrl should focus

Nobody's advocating for any of the Origin criteria to change: Ponga qualifies but playing for QLD rules him out of Kiwi selection.
Victor Radly can't play for NSW because he's played for England.

State selection should have no relationship to national selection.

 

[Wb1234]

I feel like you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.


How is allowing Origin players eligible for NZ play for NZ going to impact that?


Currently it's an Aussie and PI thing.


No, he's not eligible for Origin. Are you being deliberately obtuse?


Luai has played 12 origin matches.


The point is they shouldn't have to. I don't begrudge any player picking Origin, and/or the islands, except for that prick Taumalolo, but I do begrudge the fact that players can't pick NZ and Origin even they want to.


That time is now. They're both tier 1 on performance.

Samoa Tonga and Fiji are receiving a big chunk of the money the govt has set aside for the png nrl team (around 290 million)

They don’t have an nrl club like nz does and rely upon Aussies.

Once their game is sustainable then no they shouldn’t be in origin either

And like I said you guys belted Australia a few years ago under these rules when you had a good coach

It’s not a real issue your looking for excuses

 

[Wb1234]

Nobody's advocating for any of the Origin criteria to change: Ponga qualifies but playing for QLD rules him out of Kiwi selection.
Victor Radly can't play for NSW because he's played for England.

State selection should have no relationship to national selection.

So just turn origin into an exhibition game which has no meaning ?

 

[Gobsmacked]

I feel like you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.


How is allowing Origin players eligible for NZ play for NZ going to impact that?


Currently it's an Aussie and PI thing.


No, he's not eligible for Origin. Are you being deliberately obtuse?


Luai has played 12 origin matches.


The point is they shouldn't have to. I don't begrudge any player picking Origin, and/or the islands, except for that prick Taumalolo, but I do begrudge the fact that players can't pick NZ and Origin even they want to.


That time is now. They're both tier 1 on performance.

There are people who enter this debate who don't fully grasp the issue, he's one. I did my best to explain it to him, well see..

All the debate that I've seen on all the footy shows and commentary were supportive of the changes once they actually grasp the issue properly.
It's not really debatable, they just need to implement the change.

It would obviously be better for international footy and Origin and doesn't water anything down. It's not even about what we think or want. It's actually important to certain individuals and fairness for them. KP has every reason to play for QLD and every reason to play for the Kiwis and it's unjust that he isn't permitted.
Has to be fix.

 

[Gobsmacked]

So just turn origin into an exhibition game which has no meaning ?

Read it again. Make sure you actually understand it . Take as long as you need.
If you think it makes it an exhibition game...read it again.

 

[Wb1234]

Read it again. Make sure you actually understand it . Take as long as you need.
If you think it makes it an exhibition game...read it again.

Islanders playing for Samoa and Tonga are Aussies. Born here probably don’t even speak the local language

The kiwi team isn’t ring ins

Take all the time you need to read it

I don’t think you understand what being an exhibition game means

You want people playing for nsw and qld who are passionate about representing their state

Just like with nz you want people who are passionate about playing for them

Don’t throw a tanty just bc I think you’re wrong

Origin is the pinnacle of the game

 

[jim_57]

Anyone who fulfils one or more of the below criteria should be eligible for Origin, regardless of who they want to play for internationally

- Born in QLD/NSW
- Moved to QLD/NSW before age 13
- Father played Origin for QLD/NSW

Just need to remove the NZ/England rule, very simple change.

Kris, McClean etc become eligible for Origin again which is more than fair. A plethora of dual eligible players can chose to play for NZ without giving up the prestige and let’s be honest money that comes from being an Origin player.

 

[i0Nic]

Anyone who fulfils one or more of the below criteria should be eligible for Origin, regardless of who they want to play for internationally

- Born in QLD/NSW
- Moved to QLD/NSW before age 13
- Father played Origin for QLD/NSW

Just need to remove the NZ/England rule, very simple change.

Kris, McClean etc become eligible for Origin again which is more than fair. A plethora of dual eligible players can chose to play for NZ without giving up the prestige and let’s be honest money that comes from being an Origin player.

This.

 

[Wb1234]

Anyone who fulfils one or more of the below criteria should be eligible for Origin, regardless of who they want to play for internationally

- Born in QLD/NSW
- Moved to QLD/NSW before age 13
- Father played Origin for QLD/NSW

Just need to remove the NZ/England rule, very simple change.

Kris, McClean etc become eligible for Origin again which is more than fair. A plethora of dual eligible players can chose to play for NZ without giving up the prestige and let’s be honest money that comes from being an Origin player.

So when they play the Australian anthem before the game they just bow their heads or maybe play the kiwi and English anthems at origin too so they don’t feel left out lol

 

[jim_57]

Islanders playing for Samoa and Tonga are Aussies. Born here probably don’t even speak the local language

The kiwi team isn’t ring ins

Take all the time you need to read it

I don’t think you understand what being an exhibition game means

You want people playing for nsw and qld who are passionate about representing their state

Just like with nz you want people who are passionate about playing for them

Don’t throw a tanty just bc I think you’re wrong

Origin is the pinnacle of the game

Up to $90k a year on the table for someone who picks Origin, plus a lot more media attention which can help up their price come contract negotiation time. Passion Smashion, we all know full well what agents would be advising their dual eligible players to do.

 

[jim_57]

So when they play the Australian anthem before the game they just bow their heads or maybe play the kiwi and English anthems at origin too so they don’t feel left out lol

Do they play the Samoan & Tongan anthems currently?

 

[Wb1234]

Do they play the Samoan & Tongan anthems currently?

Up to $90k a year on the table for someone who picks Origin, plus a lot more media attention which can help up their price come contract negotiation time. Passion Smashion, we all know full well what agents would be advising their dual eligible players to do.

And yet many ignore that 90k and pick nz anyway

Kiwis flog Australia in record Pacific Cup final win

New Zealand gave Australia their heaviest ever defeat and a rugby league lesson for the ages in a record-breaking 30-0 Pacific Cup final win in Hamilton.

www.espn.com.au

Seems like there isn’t much of an issue here to be honest

Down the track Samoans and Tongans players shouldn’t be In origin either

If the money is an issue pay them the same as origin players

 

[jim_57]

And yet many ignore that 90k and pick nz anyway

Kiwis flog Australia in record Pacific Cup final win

New Zealand gave Australia their heaviest ever defeat and a rugby league lesson for the ages in a record-breaking 30-0 Pacific Cup final win in Hamilton.

www.espn.com.au

Seems like there isn’t much of an issue here to be honest

Down the track Samoans and Tongans players shouldn’t be In origin either

If the money is an issue pay them the same as origin players

Only 2 I can think of recently are McClean & Kris. A lot more going the other way lately.

 

[parrawentyfan]

Anyone who fulfils one or more of the below criteria should be eligible for Origin, regardless of who they want to play for internationally

- Born in QLD/NSW
- Moved to QLD/NSW before age 13
- Father played Origin for QLD/NSW

Just need to remove the NZ/England rule, very simple change.

Kris, McClean etc become eligible for Origin again which is more than fair. A plethora of dual eligible players can chose to play for NZ without giving up the prestige and let’s be honest money that comes from being an Origin player.

Perfect