New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

[Gobsmacked]

Islanders playing for Samoa and Tonga are Aussies. Born here probably don’t even speak the local language

The kiwi team isn’t ring ins

Take all the time you need to read it

I don’t think you understand what being an exhibition game means

You want people playing for nsw and qld who are passionate about representing their state

Just like with nz you want people who are passionate about playing for them

Don’t throw a tanty just bc I think you’re wrong

Origin is the pinnacle of the game

"You want people playing for nsw and qld who are passionate about representing their state
Just like with nz you want people who are passionate about playing for them"

Exactly.

Surely you realize that there are people that are both and qualify for both?

 

[Wb1234]

"You want people playing for nsw and qld who are passionate about representing their state
Just like with nz you want people who are passionate about playing for them"

Exactly.

Surely you realize that there are people that are both and qualify for both?

You think someone who wants to represent another country is passionate about representing nsw or qld ?

Thats an interesting take

Ponga doesn’t even want to play for the kiwis

He’s passionate about playing for the all blacks

We’ve already got an exhibition match for kiwi players in the all stars game

Turning origin into a version of that would be stupid

Origin is a cash cow

 

[Gobsmacked]

You think someone who wants to represent another country is passionate about representing nsw or qld ?

Thats an interesting take

Ponga doesn’t even want to play for the kiwis

He’s passionate about playing for the all blacks

We’ve already got an exhibition match for kiwi players in the all stars game

Turning origin into a version of that would be stupid

Origin is a cash cow

So players can be passionate about QLD and Samoa
But can't be passionate about QLD and NZ

That's an interesting take.

 

[Wb1234]

So players can be passionate about QLD and Samoa
But can't be passionate about QLD and NZ

That's an interesting take.

Samoan and Tongan players are Aussies

We all know it let’s not kid ourselves

And once tonga and Samoan pathways are developed their players shouldn’t be either

It’s a short term thing to develop the international game

Origin shouldn’t be diluted

Not every star player gets to play origin hence it’s not an exhibition match

 

[Gobsmacked]

Samoan and Tongan players are Aussies

We all know it let’s not kid ourselves

And once tonga and Samoan pathways are developed their players shouldn’t be either

It’s a short term thing to develop the international game

Origin shouldn’t be diluted

Not every star player gets to play origin hence it’s not an exhibition match

Nobody's advocating for a change to Origin criteria.
Only players who qualify for Origin should play Origin.

Playing Origin though , shouldn't have anything to do with what country you want to represent.

 

[Matua]

Samoa Tonga and Fiji are receiving a big chunk of the money the govt has set aside for the png nrl team (around 290 million)

They don’t have an nrl club like nz does and rely upon Aussies.

Once their game is sustainable then no they shouldn’t be in origin either

And like I said you guys belted Australia a few years ago under these rules when you had a good coach

It’s not a real issue your looking for excuses

What has any of that got to do with anything? The only change I want is that the same SOO rules apply to all players equally in a way they don't now. It's quite baffling that you are so against eligible players being available for Origin when they are NZers but fine with it when they're PIs.

You are essentially advocating for removing the PI rule for Origin, and if that's the case then fine, I'm not going to argue with that.

But, the PI teams will never not rely on Aussies and NZers, no matter how much money is poured into the game. Tonga has two Tongan born players, and they learnt the game in NZ. Samoa has two Samoan born players.

This is a strange hill you've chosen to die on.

 

[Wb1234]

What has any of that got to do with anything? The only change I want is that the same SOO rules apply to all players equally in a way they don't now. It's quite baffling that you are so against eligible players being available for Origin when they are NZers but fine with it when they're PIs.

You are essentially advocating for removing the PI rule for Origin, and if that's the case then fine, I'm not going to argue with that.

But, the PI teams will never not rely on Aussies and NZers, no matter how much money is poured into the game. Tonga has two Tongan born players, and they learnt the game in NZ. Samoa has two Samoan born players.

This is a strange hill you've chosen to die on.

When the png money gets spent on pi nations then yeh axe them too

And I did suggest nz Samoan and Tongan players be paid like origin ones do

And this issue hasn’t stopped the kiwis beating Australia it’s a red herring

Australia could be sooking at losing players too even if it’s less than nz

And I hope the poms beat the kangaroos

Kiwi players that goes to Australia are still kiwis

Guys like luai etc who play due to grandparent and parent are Aussie but I’m ok with it as it’s working for rugby league but obviously not ideal

Pick one nation no changing

Origin only for Aussies

 

[Gobsmacked]

When the png money gets spent on pi nations then yeh axe them too

And I did suggest nz Samoan and Tongan players be paid like origin ones do

And this issue hasn’t stopped the kiwis beating Australia it’s a red herring

Australia could be sooking at losing players too even if it’s less than nz

And I hope the poms beat the kangaroos

Kiwi players that goes to Australia are still kiwis

Guys like luai etc who play due to grandparent and parent are Aussie but I’m ok with it as it’s working for rugby league but obviously not ideal

Pick one nation no changing

Origin only for Aussies

i see. You're just racist. Got it.

 

[Manurewa_Marlins]

When the png money gets spent on pi nations then yeh axe them too

And I did suggest nz Samoan and Tongan players be paid like origin ones do

And this issue hasn’t stopped the kiwis beating Australia it’s a red herring

Australia could be sooking at losing players too even if it’s less than nz

And I hope the poms beat the kangaroos

Kiwi players that goes to Australia are still kiwis

Guys like luai etc who play due to grandparent and parent are Aussie but I’m ok with it as it’s working for rugby league but obviously not ideal

Pick one nation no changing

Origin only for Aussies

They did sook last world cup and the internationals since. If they lose the Ashes, the sooking will start again - after blaming Kevvie ofcourse.

 

[Gobsmacked]

They did sook last world cup and the internationals since. If they lose the Ashes, the sooking will start again - after blaming Kevvie ofcourse.

It's funny how a team that has Cleary, Munster,Walsh and Grant as their spine think they need to blackmail players with Origin selection.

 

[Manurewa_Marlins]

It's funny how a team that has Cleary, Munster,Walsh and Grant as their spine think they need to blackmail players with Origin selection.

Its hilarious eh, they've played with their own criteria to suit themselves since the concept's inception!

 

[Gobsmacked]

Its hilarious eh, they've played with their own criteria to suit themselves since the concept's inception!

A real growth market for the NRL is internationals and they know it. Valandy's would have already made the change but there's probably a few old people around the game holding them back.

This change makes both internationals stronger and Origins.
This only effects the Kangaroos, so it's obvious who's holding it back.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

How many Kiwis would be Origin eligible though? Unless we are referring to NZ born Tongan and Samoan players that could now choose NZ instead of Australia like Isaiya Katoa, but those players seem pretty locked in to their Island nation now.

The point isn't about the thrill of watching Kiwi reps play Origin (who gives a shit) it's about the possibility of Origin-eligible players choosing the Kiwis when given a genuine choice in the matter.

If you don't think it would ever happen because guys are so committed to their island nations (or Australia), I'm not so sure about that. We already have the examples of Leota and Mulitalo who had already opted to play for Samoa, and then switched to the Kiwis when they found out they weren't eligible for Origin (in both cases they missed out on Origin eligiblity by a matter of months).

In this year's series alone you had the following NZ-born players:

- Nanai
- Fotuaika
- Finefeuiaki
- Utoikamanu
- Leniu
- Papalii
- Toia

And then you have other NZ eligible players - Luai, Ponga, Holmes....and if you include 18th/19th men, you have Arthars (NZ born), Walsh and Howarth (NZ eligible).

That's 13 NZ eligible players from Origin 2025 alone, 8 of them NZ born, and that's not even a comprehensive list that's just the guys who I know are very obviously eligible.

The "NZ and Origin eligible" demographic is massive.

 

[Manurewa_Marlins]

The point isn't about the thrill of watching Kiwi reps play Origin (who gives a shit) it's about the possibility of Origin-eligible players choosing the Kiwis when given a genuine choice in the matter.

If you don't think it would ever happen because guys are so committed to their island nations (or Australia), I'm not so sure about that. We already have the examples of Leota and Mulitalo who had already opted to play for Samoa, and then switched to the Kiwis when they found out they weren't eligible for Origin (in both cases they missed out on Origin eligiblity by a matter of months).

In this year's series alone you had the following NZ-born players:

- Nanai
- Fotuaika
- Finefeuiaki
- Utoikamanu
- Leniu
- Papalii
- Toia

And then you have other NZ eligible players - Luai, Ponga, Holmes....and if you include 18th/19th men, you have Arthars (NZ born), Walsh and Howarth (NZ eligible).

That's 13 NZ eligible players from Origin 2025 alone, 8 of them NZ born, and that's not even a comprehensive list that's just the guys who I know are very obviously eligible.

The "NZ and Origin eligible" demographic is massive.

Imagine if they didn't have Origin, they'd have to actually play test matches! Oh the humanity!!!!

 

[jolly boys outing]

Imagine if they didn't have Origin, they'd have to actually play test matches! Oh the humanity!!!!

If in a perfect make believe world origin didn’t exist I honestly think that the Australia v New Zealand international fixtures would be bigger than the union equivalent.

 

[Matua]

When the png money gets spent on pi nations then yeh axe them too

And I did suggest nz Samoan and Tongan players be paid like origin ones do

I really not sure what these money stuff you're discussing here has to do with players being eligible for NZ and Origin being allowed to represent both (like all the PI nations).

And this issue hasn’t stopped the kiwis beating Australia it’s a red herring

Making this just an issue about beating Oz is a red herring. It's also about fairness.

Guys like luai etc who play due to grandparent and parent are Aussie but I’m ok with it as it’s working for rugby league but obviously not ideal

The PIs don't survive without the parent and grandparent rule. Plus, your example of Luai is pertinent, the Origin rules allow him to represent the country of one of his parents, but not the country of his other parent.

Origin only for Aussies

Do you mean players who want to play for Oz or born in Oz?

 

[Canard]

Bro!! What a douche ! Thank fxck he isn't involved!
That statement rules him out of any position administrating NRL at any level for life!

Is this a way to lash out at the NRL for being overlooked?

I think the NRL will push ahead with a model that is being used for Perth, why risk it with these fools?
They'll leverage the Brisbane 3 bid to get the NZ government to the table ( already establishing a relationship with the Origin concept) they'll probably get 100 million by that time, run it for a few years and sell it.

For the rest of his life!

 

[Wb1234]

I really not sure what these money stuff you're discussing here has to do with players being eligible for NZ and Origin being allowed to represent both (like all the PI nations).


Making this just an issue about beating Oz is a red herring. It's also about fairness.


The PIs don't survive without the parent and grandparent rule. Plus, your example of Luai is pertinent, the Origin rules allow him to represent the country of one of his parents, but not the country of his other parent.


Do you mean players who want to play for Oz or born in Oz?

Origin should be for players who want to play for the Roos

If nz and islanders are paid the same as origin players ie 30k per game then you can’t say they are choosing origin for dollars

I get your view has a lot of support from league people even Gus Gould supports it

I’m sceptical

For the kiwis I’d be more worried about choice of coach, the warriors producing more nz players than this issue which to me is trivial to the kiwis fortunes

 

[Matiunz]

In all honesty I’m not advocating in particular for NZers playing origin I’m just wanting a level playing field.
As it stands financially it’s much more lucrative for a dual eligible player to align with a PI nation and play origin.
Kangaroos don’t particularly care as they have more than enough depth to easily withstand the losses of players, NZ doesn’t- second year in a row we’ve had to call a 7 out of retirement for example. We used to have to compete with the lure of the origin carrot with just Aus based players but that extended to PI eligible players.
Yes it has been good to get more competitive island nations but it has been wholly at NZs expense (which in turn benefits Kangaroos). The recent win against Aus gets pointed out but pre the defections we were gaining close to parity (before the disastrous kidwell era).
Not a fan of SJ as coach but can understand the decision not to retain Madge when he coached NSW- it’d have been inviting the wolf into the henhouse for those players on the fence about origin vs kiwis

 

[Wb1234]

In all honesty I’m not advocating in particular for NZers playing origin I’m just wanting a level playing field.
As it stands financially it’s much more lucrative for a dual eligible player to align with a PI nation and play origin.
Kangaroos don’t particularly care as they have more than enough depth to easily withstand the losses of players, NZ doesn’t- second year in a row we’ve had to call a 7 out of retirement for example. We used to have to compete with the lure of the origin carrot with just Aus based players but that extended to PI eligible players.
Yes it has been good to get more competitive island nations but it has been wholly at NZs expense (which in turn benefits Kangaroos). The recent win against Aus gets pointed out but pre the defections we were gaining close to parity (before the disastrous kidwell era).
Not a fan of SJ as coach but can understand the decision not to retain Madge when he coached NSW- it’d have been inviting the wolf into the henhouse for those players on the fence about origin vs kiwis

Pay Kiwi players 30k a test

I doubt you’ll get them back though

Unlike in Union where the all blacks jersey is the lure for lots of Pacific Islander talent it’s the opposite in league

And that’s not a bad thing