New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

[Matiunz]

They have impacted Australia

Favoured cause they are trying to help Samoa and Tonga develop which has worked

If this detracts from origin it’s not like you’d care too much anyway

It’s laughable to say it’s effected Aus the same way that it’s effected NZ. Not denying Aus has lost out on the odd player but their depth is more than enough to cover for it, NZs depth isn’t- don’t find it a coincidence that Aus’ altruism to ‘help the islands’ came at a time when the kiwis were starting to trouble the Kangaroos at a much more consistent frequency

 

[Wb1234]

I didn't say it doesn't impact Australia. Not impacting the same way doesn't mean no impact.

Favouring is favouring, the NRL have their thumb on the scale and are favouring two teams over other teams. Why are you so scared of allowing NZers the same opportunities? Are you scared all the PIs are going to ditch and come to NZ? If you don't think that will happen then good, change the rules and let the NZers who want to play Origin and Kiwis.

It wont detract from Origin. Why do you keep pretending this? How about you explain exactly how allowing Origin eligible players who are NZers play for the Kiwis detracts from Origin.

Don’t want to devalue origin

Australia have copped it on the chin

Focus on warriors developing more players

Maybe nzrl should ask arl for more grant money

Maybe next time when you’ve got a good coach and wants to stay don’t get rid of him

It literally hasn’t stopped nz from winning the pac cup

 

[Wb1234]

It’s laughable to say it’s effected Aus the same way that it’s effected NZ. Not denying Aus has lost out on the odd player but their depth is more than enough to cover for it, NZs depth isn’t- don’t find it a coincidence that Aus’ altruism to ‘help the islands’ came at a time when the kiwis were starting to trouble the Kangaroos at a much more consistent frequency

Didn’t say it’s affected them equally

Nz should focus on improving player depth they have the population base to do so dramatically

You think the arl did it to weaken nz to benefit the Roos?

Lol

 

[Wb1234]

I didn't say it doesn't impact Australia. Not impacting the same way doesn't mean no impact.

Favouring is favouring, the NRL have their thumb on the scale and are favouring two teams over other teams. Why are you so scared of allowing NZers the same opportunities? Are you scared all the PIs are going to ditch and come to NZ? If you don't think that will happen then good, change the rules and let the NZers who want to play Origin and Kiwis.

It wont detract from Origin. Why do you keep pretending this? How about you explain exactly how allowing Origin eligible players who are NZers play for the Kiwis detracts from Origin.

You might find this interesting

 

[Matua]

You might find this interesting

Wall is doing what lots in NZ rugby seem to do these days and he's throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

The NZ Secondary Schools have shit selectors and coaches, which is why they got beaten last year by the Maori team (a team selected from players left over after the NZ and Baabaas teams are selected). So while the size of the defeat was unexpected the defeat itself wasn't to those who follow schoolboy rugby.

The current system of a NZ Sec Schools side, an NZ Baabaas side (made up of schools and club players), and a Maori team exposes more players to a higher level than an U18 team would. I don't know why they don't have a schools Super comp anymore, they used to. Maybe the itinerary got too crowded.

 

[Matua]

Don’t want to devalue origin

Australia have copped it on the chin

Focus on warriors developing more players

Maybe nzrl should ask arl for more grant money

Maybe next time when you’ve got a good coach and wants to stay don’t get rid of him

It literally hasn’t stopped nz from winning the pac cup

You're usually a decent poster to have arguments with on here, but seriously you seem to just be on the troll here. I'm not going to bother discussing his anymore while you keep dodging the question (that me and other posters have asked multiple times) of exactly how allowing NZ qualified players to play Origin and for the Kiwis devalues Origin. You keep repeating so back it up with some reasoning.

 

[Wb1234]

You're usually a decent poster to have arguments with on here, but seriously you seem to just be on the troll here. I'm not going to bother discussing his anymore while you keep dodging the question (that me and other posters have asked multiple times) of exactly how allowing NZ qualified players to play Origin and for the Kiwis devalues Origin. You keep repeating so back it up with some reasoning.

I didn’t dodge it

Origin should be for kangaroos eligible players only ideally

You’ve got an exhibition game already with the Māori all stars game that ponga can play it

The exception for Samoa and Tonga is to help develop their game which needs it

Nz doesn’t need it

Which players have you lost by this policy anyway ?

I said to you before once Samoa and Tonga are established then their players shouldn’t be in origin either

You know the policy doesn’t apply to tier two nations and it’s for that reason

You’re the one been saying warriors don’t produce enough players. I’m agreeing with you that’s the real issue

 

[i0Nic]

Nope disagree on that. Keep state representation and national representation separate with each having their own qualifying requirements.

No reason why kiwis who played junior football in Australia can’t represent both their state and country (nz).

Origin has moved on from being a kangaroos selection. We need to keep it as a best of the best tournament, while also keeping international strong too.

 

[Gobsmacked]

Nope disagree on that. Keep state representation and national representation separate with each having their own qualifying requirements.

No reason why kiwis who played junior football in Australia can’t represent both their state and country (nz).

Origin has moved on from being a kangaroos selection. We need to keep it as a best of the best tournament, while also keeping international strong too.

There's Origin criteria that needs to be kept in place too.

 

[Matua]

I didn’t dodge it

Yeah you did, which is why we're only getting an answer now.

Origin should be for kangaroos eligible players only ideally

The exception for Samoa and Tonga is to help develop their game which needs it

Origin is already devalued now under your definition. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either it's devalued by non Kangaroo eligible players being there or it's not. What is it?

You’ve got an exhibition game already with the Māori all stars game that ponga can play it

Exhibition games are not analogous to national sides. Maori All Stars are not a NZ representative team.

Which players have you lost by this policy anyway ?

This aspect has been discussed multiple times already in this thread and in the PC thread and you know that because you're in the threads.

Nz doesn’t need it

I said to you before once Samoa and Tonga are established then their players shouldn’t be in origin either

They are established. NZ couldn't make the PC final last year but a PI team did.

You know the policy doesn’t apply to tier two nations and it’s for that reason

The tiers are meaningless when the PI teams are winning and competing regularly.

You’re the one been saying warriors don’t produce enough players. I’m agreeing with you that’s the real issue

It's merely one issue, although they have done a decent job of producing players for the PI teams.

 

[Wb1234]

Yeah you did, which is why we're only getting an answer now.


Origin is already devalued now under your definition. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either it's devalued by non Kangaroo eligible players being there or it's not. What is it?


Exhibition games are not analogous to national sides. Maori All Stars are not a NZ representative team.


This aspect has been discussed multiple times already in this thread and in the PC thread and you know that because you're in the threads.


They are established. NZ couldn't make the PC final last year but a PI team did.


The tiers are meaningless when the PI teams are winning and competing regularly.


It's merely one issue, although they have done a decent job of producing players for the PI teams.

Under the current rules pi are tier two

Allowing pi players in origin the benefit outweighs the cost

When they wanted sbw and Sammy burgess to play origin I was dead against that too

And I told you Gould supports your position

Imo You’re making a mountain out of a molehill

Nz isn’t a weak nation that needs that help like Samoa and Tonga do

If the warriors and nzrl were running things properly you wouldn’t need to be scraping the barrel with this argument

 

[jolly boys outing]

You might find this interesting

That 1st game score line is insane especially when you consider that it’s the NZ schoolboys on the wrong end of it.

 

[Matua]

Under the current rules pi are tier two

Allowing pi players in origin the benefit outweighs the cost

When they wanted sbw and Sammy burgess to play origin I was dead against that too

And I told you Gould supports your position

Imo You’re making a mountain out of a molehill

Nz isn’t a weak nation that needs that help like Samoa and Tonga do

If the warriors and nzrl were running things properly you wouldn’t need to be scraping the barrel with this argument

Wanting equality is not scraping the barrel. Why shouldn't Weekes, Ponga and Howarth be able to play Origin and for NZ - if they want to, just like Haas is allowed to choose? Your stance is just hypocritical. Tier 2 Tonga have beaten NZ twice in the last last 4 games, there is no tier distinction between the teams - the current rules are stupid.

Allowing NZ players in Origin would similarly have benefits that outweigh the costs. A stronger Kiwis is better for league in NZ. You claim you want league to succeed in NZ yet you're against a policy that would help it succeed, yet you hypocritically favour it for nations who are never going to have the domestic infrastructure to make a difference.

Stop pretending we are a stronger nation that we are, we have less than 30k players in NZ and a lot of those players are shared between us and the islands.

 

[taste2taste]

how allowing NZ qualified players to play Origin and for the Kiwis devalues Origin. You keep repeating so back it up with some reasoning.

It devalues Origin because there are bogans in the media and bogan fans that want SOO to be Aussies only.

These people don't want To'o, Crichton ..etc playing Origin because they don't want to play for Australia. Imagine how much of a melty they'd have if Ponga, Weekes and Howarth played Origin and for NZ.

Apparently you can't have passion for your state unless you want to play for Australia

 

[Wb1234]

Wanting equality is not scraping the barrel. Why shouldn't Weekes, Ponga and Howarth be able to play Origin and for NZ - if they want to, just like Haas is allowed to choose? Your stance is just hypocritical. Tier 2 Tonga have beaten NZ twice in the last last 4 games, there is no tier distinction between the teams - the current rules are stupid.

Allowing NZ players in Origin would similarly have benefits that outweigh the costs. A stronger Kiwis is better for league in NZ. You claim you want league to succeed in NZ yet you're against a policy that would help it succeed, yet you hypocritically favour it for nations who are never going to have the domestic infrastructure to make a difference.

Stop pretending we are a stronger nation that we are, we have less than 30k players in NZ and a lot of those players are shared between us and the islands.

I’ve answered that a million times

Cause nz don’t need help and Samoa and Tonga do

Allowing the islanders to play origin isn’t idea either. Ideally they would have to pick

I’ve got kind of a solution

Mid season rep window. Four weeks one week prep. No nrl games

3 games each

Wed night men’s origin
Thursday women’s origin
Friday Samoa v Tonga
Sat png v Fiji and cooks v Lebanon
Sunday nz v England

All players get paid the same

You pick one you stick with it no changes allowed for 3 years

Once Samoa Tonga and Fiji are at a decent level

And fyi guys like lam playing origin when he was from png is another example of it being wrong

 

[Wb1234]

It devalues Origin because there are bogans in the media and bogan fans that want SOO to be Aussies only.

These people don't want To'o, Crichton ..etc playing Origin because they don't want to play for Australia. Imagine how much of a melty they'd have if Ponga, Weekes and Howarth played Origin and for NZ.

Apparently you can't have passion for your state unless you want to play for Australia

I always have a giggle when the Australian anthem is played before origin and kangaroos games and certain players don’t sing it

The aboriginal ones yeh ok it’s justified. But it’s obvious who the ring ins are and don’t want to be there

 

[taste2taste]

I always have a giggle when the Australian anthem is played before origin and kangaroos games and certain players don’t sing it

The aboriginal ones yeh ok it’s justified. But it’s obvious who the ring ins are and don’t want to be there

There's plenty of whities that don't sing the anthem. What's thier excuse?

I'd say it's because they don't know the words.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

M

Outside of a couple of blips NZ hasn’t produced too many decent halves sadly, seems really strange considering the very good playmakers we’ve produced in union.
Might have just been that the top ones have preferred union over league but we have a couple of good prospects coming through the grades, now we have both SJs to work with them hopefully this crop develops better than in the past

Henry & Robbie Paul, Gene Gnamu, Garry Freeman, Stacey Jones, Benji Marshall, Shaun Johnson, Kieran Foran, Jerome Hughes and Dylan Brown is a pretty handy list.

 

[jolly boys outing]

Henry & Robbie Paul, Gene Gnamu, Garry Freeman, Stacey Jones, Benji Marshall, Shaun Johnson, Kieran Foran, Jerome Hughes and Dylan Brown is a pretty handy list.

It is but that list of 10 players spans 40 years.

 

[Matua]

Cause nz don’t need help and Samoa and Tonga do

Clearly Tonga don't need any help, they made the PC final last year and we didn't, they clearly are at a decent level.

I have no problem with your comp - but it will devalue the strength of Origin more than letting dual qualified NZers play.