New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

[LightLizard]

Not all, it's not mutually exclusive, I said there are multiple reason reasons why people support clubs (favourite player, family support, home team, mascot and colour appeal) but that the broader the branding and the better the brand appeal, the greater the potential for attracting new fans across New Zealand.

You can call the New Zealand club Christchurch.

Or you can call it Canterbury.

Or you can call it South Island.

Or you can call it New Zealand.

All of these open doors to some type of fanbase. Some open more doors than others. Some close doors to others. Some open too many doors that fans feels they don't even want to walk through (i.e. don't call them the Pacific Ocean Whatevers).

Calling the club Christchurch or Canterbury shuts doors in the rest of the South Island.

Calling the club South Island shuts doors to potential fans in the North Island who might want to support a team other than the warriors (similar to the Dolphins in Brisbane).

Calling the club New Zealand? Well, you've seen it work for the Warriors. They have fans all over the country and also in Australia. The same thing will happen if you call the second team New Zealand too.

As for the mascot and colours, yes some people will follow a team simply because of pre-existing personal preferences. You can't predict what an individual will like, but you can do market research to find out what's more popular in the areas that you're targeting. Why do you think the original Gold Coast bid were pushing for Dolphins so much? Dolphins are a popular universal animal support across wide demographics and no major sports team in our region had that branding except for a second tier QRL team. And Redcliffe fought them because off their history and they knew it was a marketing winner.

If I were to survey market colours in NZ, I suspect I'd get some combination of black, white, red, green and yellow. I'd mock up some sample combinations then test those. Personally, to distinguish from other NRL teams and the Crusaders, I'd go a white body like the Dragons, with red & black v's or stripes colouring. But again - market test it.

Then the mascot. You can market test these too. The options so far are keas and orcas. What will resonate more? I suspect the New Zealand Orcas. Not to say that keas aren't amazing animals, they are. But orcas are famous world wide - basically your mascot is Free Willy. Who else uses it in Australia or NZ? Wellington and Tauranga, so there might be a Redcliffe type fight if its selected, so back ups are need just in case.

I think the New Zealand Keas can work as a brand. My main issue with the kea is: does it stand out from the variety of other bird mascot used in this region? You have 5 AFL bird teams (crows, magpies, hawks, swans, eagles), 2 NRL bird teams (sea eagles, roosters), technically the force use a black swan, A-League (phoenix). There's the Kiwis. NBL has the Hawks. Also the Breakers use a kea as a mascot already. It's a lot of birds with a lot of repeats.

So then you market test other New Zealand iconography, not just animals. Volcanoes maybe? But it's too North Island. Mountains? A bit similar to the Highlanders? Sheeps/rams? Lots of jokes there... Bulls? Has potential but very associated with Canterbury already who might not end up as part of the ownership structure.

Although I've said birds are overused in sports, there is one that isn't overused in Australia and New Zealand. Penguins. Kid and family friendly. Universally iconic. No major competition from competing sports brands in the region. I think if you market tested it, it would come out close to what the Orcas would get, and above the Keas. If I can't get Free Willy, I'd go with the Penguins from Madagascar - I mean New Zealand.

And just for fun, here's some lazy AI:

 

[stratocaster]

But correlation doesnt always mean causation and I think you are assuming a lot here. The appeal of the Warriors, especially here in Aust with ex pats, is likely little to do with the team being called NZ (they actually dropped the NZ all together for a long time and were just "the Warriors") and more likely to do with the team having some success.

RL is built on tribalism Well before teams in the Illawarra, Newcatle and Qld entered the comp kids in those heartlands adopted Sydney teams and none of them cared about the location name in front of them

Think about that saying. Correlation doesn't always mean causation but that doesn't mean that it NEVER does, or in particular, doesn't in this specific case.

You can argue that success has helped, I'm not going to argue that. That said, you can't always guarantee success for a new franchise, so you can't rely on that. There's also a case to be made that they were the only RL team in the country so fans were going to gravitate towards them regardless. But now there will be competition. What would be more appeal to a neutral coming into the game without any bias - the Auckland Warriors or the New Zealand Orcas? I'd argue that change back after the One sponsorship deal tells you that the club values the New Zealand moniker.

Rugby league kids outside of Sydney adopted Sydney clubs because that's where the best professional players were. The quality is higher. If tribalism were the only factor, they would have stuck with only supporting the Newcastle local league. But it's not.

That's why when the NSWRL expand to Queensland, they didn't just invite some existing club like Redcliffe into the competition, because they new whatever suburban brand they brought it wouldn't unit the entire city of Brisbane behind them. Hence why the Brisbane Broncos were formed. Some people at Dolphins HQ know that if they do get the chance to be known as Redcliffe Dolphins in the NRL, they're going to limit their ability to attract fans across the wider Brisbane area. Hence all those calls to call them Moreton Bay Dolphins etc. However, some are pushing for the Redcliffe moniker to come in. Wider appeal vs tribalism. If tribalism wins in that case, then the club will always be limited in its appeal. But if they went with something broader, like the Brisbane Dolphins, or the South Queensland Dolphins - or what they had originally - the Sunshine State Dolphins (similar to Golden State Warriors) then like I said, they cast their net wider. Regardless of the former moniker, as long as they're the Dolphins, that history and tribalism remains at their core, which is why it still exists with 'The'.

Basically, calling them Christchurch is the equivalent of Redcliffe. Canterbury is the equivalent of Brisbane/Moreton Bay. South Island is the equivalent of South Queensland. And Sunshine State - or even just Queensland Dolphins - which casts the widest net - is the equivalent of New Zealand.

Redcliffe Dolphins --> shut the door to the rest of Brisbane
Moreton Bay Dolphins --> shut the door to the west of Brisbane
Brisbane Dolphins --> shut the door to far north of Brisbane and Sunshine Coast
South Queensland Dolphins --> shut the door to fans outside of South-East Queensland
Sunshine State Dolphins --> shut the door to fans with non-Queensland heritage
Queensland Dolphins --> instead of marketing to a suburb, you're marketing to 5.69 million people in the state

The Dolphins could really piss off the Broncos by calling themselves the Queensland Dolphins and put themselves on a footing to be that equal to the Broncos in the state. And please don't tell me that the name Queensland doesn't have tribalism to it.

Hence, New Zealand Orcas > South Island Orcas.

 

[Wb1234]

 

[Gobsmacked]

In English?

 

[Wb1234]

Wonder how the Australian tax payer would feel if they knew millions of $’s have been spent on a PI team that folded and delivered nothing for the money? Bet Albo isnt shouting this one from the rooftops!

Don’t think our govt put any money into Moana that was the irb and nz govt

Fiji drua we have invested 20 million and tbf it’s been a massive success

 

[Colk]

In English?

If the head of Rugby keep their head in the clouds, we will all end up playing Rugby League

 

[Wb1234]

In English?

Need to go on x for the translation

some all black said league will be the rugby of the future if changes aren’t made

 

[Wb1234]

How do they feel about all the other squillions that get wasted by the Government?

they still spending those hundreds of billions on those submarines?

And we probably won’t receive a single sub and we can’t even get the money we’ve paid back lmao

 

[The Axe of Druss]

Think about that saying. Correlation doesn't always mean causation but that doesn't mean that it NEVER does, or in particular, doesn't in this specific case.

You can argue that success has helped, I'm not going to argue that. That said, you can't always guarantee success for a new franchise, so you can't rely on that. There's also a case to be made that they were the only RL team in the country so fans were going to gravitate towards them regardless. But now there will be competition. What would be more appeal to a neutral coming into the game without any bias - the Auckland Warriors or the New Zealand Orcas? I'd argue that change back after the One sponsorship deal tells you that the club values the New Zealand moniker.

Rugby league kids outside of Sydney adopted Sydney clubs because that's where the best professional players were. The quality is higher. If tribalism were the only factor, they would have stuck with only supporting the Newcastle local league. But it's not.

That's why when the NSWRL expand to Queensland, they didn't just invite some existing club like Redcliffe into the competition, because they new whatever suburban brand they brought it wouldn't unit the entire city of Brisbane behind them. Hence why the Brisbane Broncos were formed. Some people at Dolphins HQ know that if they do get the chance to be known as Redcliffe Dolphins in the NRL, they're going to limit their ability to attract fans across the wider Brisbane area. Hence all those calls to call them Moreton Bay Dolphins etc. However, some are pushing for the Redcliffe moniker to come in. Wider appeal vs tribalism. If tribalism wins in that case, then the club will always be limited in its appeal. But if they went with something broader, like the Brisbane Dolphins, or the South Queensland Dolphins - or what they had originally - the Sunshine State Dolphins (similar to Golden State Warriors) then like I said, they cast their net wider. Regardless of the former moniker, as long as they're the Dolphins, that history and tribalism remains at their core, which is why it still exists with 'The'.

Basically, calling them Christchurch is the equivalent of Redcliffe. Canterbury is the equivalent of Brisbane/Moreton Bay. South Island is the equivalent of South Queensland. And Sunshine State - or even just Queensland Dolphins - which casts the widest net - is the equivalent of New Zealand.

Redcliffe Dolphins --> shut the door to the rest of Brisbane
Moreton Bay Dolphins --> shut the door to the west of Brisbane
Brisbane Dolphins --> shut the door to far north of Brisbane and Sunshine Coast
South Queensland Dolphins --> shut the door to fans outside of South-East Queensland
Sunshine State Dolphins --> shut the door to fans with non-Queensland heritage
Queensland Dolphins --> instead of marketing to a suburb, you're marketing to 5.69 million people in the state

The Dolphins could really piss off the Broncos by calling themselves the Queensland Dolphins and put themselves on a footing to be that equal to the Broncos in the state. And please don't tell me that the name Queensland doesn't have tribalism to it.

Hence, New Zealand Orcas > South Island Orcas.

Thats a big post to not say all that much

Take a look at some of the biggest brands in sport, look where all of their fans etc are and you'll see location name has very little impact. Suggesting that calling them Redcliffe would "shut the door" to anywhere outside of that one suburb is flat out wrong. The Redcliffe Dolphins had a massive following all across Qld even before they entered the NRL.

If what youre saying is strictly true, then why not name the new NZ team the Pacific Orcas? Southern Hemisphere Orcas? Earth Orcas? Milky Way Orcas? I mean, if we are going for the widest appeal to not risk alienating anyone...

 

[Gobsmacked]

Need to go on x for the translation

some all black said league will be the rugby of the future if changes aren’t made

O , yeah I don't do x

 

[Matua]

But correlation doesnt always mean causation and I think you are assuming a lot here. The appeal of the Warriors, especially here in Aust with ex pats, is likely little to do with the team being called NZ (they actually dropped the NZ all together for a long time and were just "the Warriors") and more likely to do with the team having some success.

Yep, the Warriors were hugely popular throughout NZ on formation when they were called the Auckland Warriors.

Although not the part about the team having some success.

 

[Wb1234]

If Wellington comes in one day then teams have a proper geographic identity matters

so Auckland chch/South Island and Wellington

 

[Wb1234]

Former New Zealand international Michael Jones believes that rugby union is losing the battle for "hearts and minds" to rugby league in New Zealand, particularly among Pacific Island communities.

While they remain the emblem of the national sport, the All Blacks have lost their aura of invincibility in rugby union, while rugby league is establishing itself as "the people's sport today," said Michael Jones, former All Blacks flanker.

These comments come as Moana Pasifika, a Super Rugby franchise (the championship uniting New Zealand, Australian, and Fijian teams), announced its dissolution at the end of the season, citing "financial, operational, and strategic realities."

Based in Auckland, the country's largest city, this team, created to strengthen the representation of players of Samoan, Tongan, and Cook Islands descent, struggled to attract a large audience and retain its best players. At the same time, the New Zealand Warriors rugby league franchise, also based in Auckland, has seen significant growth, regularly filling its 25,000-seat stadium, regardless of its sporting results.

Two opposing trends

This evolution is also reflected in television broadcasting choices, as rugby league now enjoys priority exposure in New Zealand compared to Super Rugby. Michael Jones believes that rugby league's momentum is based on a more modern approach and a closer connection with its fans.

"We have to recognize what rugby league is doing. If rugby union keeps its head in the clouds, we'll all end up playing rugby league," warned the 1987 World Cup winner (55 caps). According to him, while rugby union, which is much more widely played globally than its rival, has a major historical weight, it cannot take this dominance for granted. In recent years, declining sporting results and a certain disaffection with the public have contributed to weakening the appeal of rugby union, particularly in South Auckland, home to a large Pacific Island community.

Michael Jones argues for greater consideration of these communities and criticizes international eligibility rules, which he considers "archaic," believing they hinder the development of Pacific Island nations. In rugby union, a player can only change national teams after a three-year waiting period, whereas rugby league allows for much more flexible changes.

 

[Matiunz]

Getting the colours and branding right will tell NZ sports fans enough. Much like maroon is Queensland, Red and black is Canterbury. Wear blue with gold trim when you play in Dunedin as a nod to Otago. Kiwi fans will understand this. Aussies may not, but Kiwis will.

I reckon mainly white (South Island league colours) with maybe greenstone green(ties into te waiponamu) with black accents would be fairly striking and an easy enough uniting colour scheme, inverted for away works easily too. With dolphins,bears and possibly chiefs recently using red and black Canterburys traditional colours are probably overplayed a bit of late, also being the Warriors prior colour scheme it may draw some ‘Temu warriors’ comparisons

 

[Matiunz]

View attachment 112026View attachment 112027

I’d make those 3 stars into 4 to make the southern cross from the NZ flag and place them n the abdomen, probably loose the shield too.
As much as I don’t mind the name Katipo they are rarer in the South (particularly southern south) and more of a North island Spider

 

[Matiunz]

Don’t think our govt put any money into Moana that was the irb and nz govt

Fiji drua we have invested 20 million and tbf it’s been a massive success

Yeah basically NZ backed MP and Aus backed Drua.

 

[Thatwasnthighref]

Former New Zealand international Michael Jones believes that rugby union is losing the battle for "hearts and minds" to rugby league in New Zealand, particularly among Pacific Island communities.

While they remain the emblem of the national sport, the All Blacks have lost their aura of invincibility in rugby union, while rugby league is establishing itself as "the people's sport today," said Michael Jones, former All Blacks flanker.

These comments come as Moana Pasifika, a Super Rugby franchise (the championship uniting New Zealand, Australian, and Fijian teams), announced its dissolution at the end of the season, citing "financial, operational, and strategic realities."

Based in Auckland, the country's largest city, this team, created to strengthen the representation of players of Samoan, Tongan, and Cook Islands descent, struggled to attract a large audience and retain its best players. At the same time, the New Zealand Warriors rugby league franchise, also based in Auckland, has seen significant growth, regularly filling its 25,000-seat stadium, regardless of its sporting results.

Two opposing trends

This evolution is also reflected in television broadcasting choices, as rugby league now enjoys priority exposure in New Zealand compared to Super Rugby. Michael Jones believes that rugby league's momentum is based on a more modern approach and a closer connection with its fans.

"We have to recognize what rugby league is doing. If rugby union keeps its head in the clouds, we'll all end up playing rugby league," warned the 1987 World Cup winner (55 caps). According to him, while rugby union, which is much more widely played globally than its rival, has a major historical weight, it cannot take this dominance for granted. In recent years, declining sporting results and a certain disaffection with the public have contributed to weakening the appeal of rugby union, particularly in South Auckland, home to a large Pacific Island community.

Michael Jones argues for greater consideration of these communities and criticizes international eligibility rules, which he considers "archaic," believing they hinder the development of Pacific Island nations. In rugby union, a player can only change national teams after a three-year waiting period, whereas rugby league allows for much more flexible changes.

Another write up of his comments:

All Blacks great Jones says rugby union losing 'hearts and minds' to league

All Blacks great Michael Jones told AFP that rugby union in New Zealand is losing the battle for "hearts and minds" to rival code rugby league, particularly among Pacific islanders.Jones, who played 55 Tests for the All Blacks and won the 1987 Rugby World Cup, told AFP the positivity, innovation...

uk.sports.yahoo.com

 

[Gobsmacked]

Former New Zealand international Michael Jones believes that rugby union is losing the battle for "hearts and minds" to rugby league in New Zealand, particularly among Pacific Island communities.

While they remain the emblem of the national sport, the All Blacks have lost their aura of invincibility in rugby union, while rugby league is establishing itself as "the people's sport today," said Michael Jones, former All Blacks flanker.

These comments come as Moana Pasifika, a Super Rugby franchise (the championship uniting New Zealand, Australian, and Fijian teams), announced its dissolution at the end of the season, citing "financial, operational, and strategic realities."

Based in Auckland, the country's largest city, this team, created to strengthen the representation of players of Samoan, Tongan, and Cook Islands descent, struggled to attract a large audience and retain its best players. At the same time, the New Zealand Warriors rugby league franchise, also based in Auckland, has seen significant growth, regularly filling its 25,000-seat stadium, regardless of its sporting results.

Two opposing trends

This evolution is also reflected in television broadcasting choices, as rugby league now enjoys priority exposure in New Zealand compared to Super Rugby. Michael Jones believes that rugby league's momentum is based on a more modern approach and a closer connection with its fans.

"We have to recognize what rugby league is doing. If rugby union keeps its head in the clouds, we'll all end up playing rugby league," warned the 1987 World Cup winner (55 caps). According to him, while rugby union, which is much more widely played globally than its rival, has a major historical weight, it cannot take this dominance for granted. In recent years, declining sporting results and a certain disaffection with the public have contributed to weakening the appeal of rugby union, particularly in South Auckland, home to a large Pacific Island community.

Michael Jones argues for greater consideration of these communities and criticizes international eligibility rules, which he considers "archaic," believing they hinder the development of Pacific Island nations. In rugby union, a player can only change national teams after a three-year waiting period, whereas rugby league allows for much more flexible changes.

I just wish Te kah was here to enjoy articles like this.
I'm sure Matua will be along to set us straight - from Brisbane while watching Stan lol

 

[Wb1234]

I just wish Te kah was here to enjoy articles like this.
I'm sure Matua will be along to set us straight - from Brisbane while watching Stan lol

I suspect he never left

he’s with us in spirit at least

 

[Matua]

I just wish Te kah was here to enjoy articles like this.
I'm sure Matua will be along to set us straight - from Brisbane while watching Stan lol

I don't live in Brisbane you dingbat.

MJ (best rugby player I've ever seen play) was on the board of MP so he's going to be particularly butt hurt about them going away.