New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

[Ian Douglas]

With 2 full NRL pathways on the South and North Islands for Both teams and the absence of a fully professional Rugby Union comp- 90% of the best talent in NZ is in League and with 2 teams of 13 million dollars of talent in the biggest Rugby comp in the world.. so is the audience.

Exactly this.

if the overwhelming majority of NZRU money will be tied up into retaining current all blacks then that means there’s very little money for the up and coming junior schoolboys talent which both the warriors and NZ2 can exploit as well as the rest of the Australian based NRL sides.

in short the NRL will be playing and winning the long game domestically in New Zealand.

 

[TheRam]

The discussion is about how the decline of domestic RU in New Zealand will benefit both the NRL and RL in general in New Zealand.

try and see the bigger picture.

The only way to really stick the knife into Rugby in NZ, is to have 2 quality teams, one in Auckland and the other in Christchurch sucking up all the media attention and the kiddies wanting to be part of that shiny new toy ans hype.

Also any new TV rights deal should have a guaranteed reserve grade or under 23/21 or whatever the NRL comes up with shown before the NRL game live in Aus & NZ. The youth of NZ love to be front and centre on the tele and were starting to choose league over Union for this very reason. Being seen and admired on the tele by your family and mates is the bomb baby! Who knew Gen Now loves publicity?

No but seriously, if planned properly the NRL could own NZ withing 5-10 years and never look back. But we will see. Does V'Landys have what it takes to one get the best TV deal the game has ever gotten and ultimately bigger and better than AFL and two get it right with expansion?

So far I think they are failing with the Bears. The people in charge are weak and will ensure that that franchise struggles for at least the first 5 years. With the PNG franchise it's a wait and see at this point, but with tax free dollars and a $600+ kitty to fall back on and work with, it should do well enough at least.

Also with the stadiums, he has scored a mixed bag, but overall from my perspective he has failed. To not get a better outcome for Penrith and the Olympic stadiums is a huge loss for the game. Then there is the Canberra ongoing circus that just get a start. Not to mention a new 30-40K seat stadium that should be pushed for the Liverpool area for both the Tigers and Bulldogs to call home. Also with the Olympics in 2032, he has managed to get a massive duck egg for the game up there too.

Anyway, I like V'Ladys and he has done a great job for the NRL over all, but he has also had some woeful failures and losses as well...like the last TV deal, which the less said the better.

See that is how you go about talking Union in a League forum mate...

 

[Gobsmacked]

Exactly this.

if the overwhelming majority of NZRU money will be tied up into retaining current all blacks then that means there’s very little money for the up and coming junior schoolboys talent which both the warriors and NZ2 can exploit as well as the rest of the Australian based NRL sides.

in short the NRL will be playing and winning the long game domestically in New Zealand.

Yep, with a cap that's increasing year over year, the extra effort applied now to pathway systems and increasing, then the amount of teams increase by an extra 3- one of which being in NZ..
Rugby Union in NZ is going to get smashed from every direction.
Let's say the NRL put a shiny brand new team in NZ in 2030, the talent,the rivalry with the Wahs .. what percentage of 10 year olds are more interested in League at that point? Add to that the League numbers that already exist, those who start to prefer League..by the time those kids are 20, NZ is a League Nation.
A realistic timeline where you say League overtakes Union is 2040 at the most, probably much sooner.

By 2040 League could be the national sport in:
Australia
NZ
PNG
Samoa and Tonga

 

[Matua]

Essentially used to be combined as North Auckland didn’t they? Pretty sure Harbour only came into existence to stem Auckland dominance (See Cronulla coming in to curb St George for the leagies getting bored )

Nah, Harbour was just part of Auckland, and Northland was just called North Auckland.

 

[Gobsmacked]

The only way to really stick the knife into Rugby in NZ, is to have 2 quality teams, one in Auckland and the other in Christchurch sucking up all the media attention and the kiddies wanting to be part of that shiny new toy ans hype.

Also any new TV rights deal should have a guaranteed reserve grade or under 23/21 or whatever the NRL comes up with shown before the NRL game live in Aus & NZ. The youth of NZ love to be front and centre on the tele and were starting to choose league over Union for this very reason. Being seen and admired on the tele by your family and mates is the bomb baby! Who knew Gen Now loves publicity?

No but seriously, if planned properly the NRL could own NZ withing 5-10 years and never look back. But we will see. Does V'Landys have what it takes to one get the best TV deal the game has ever gotten and ultimately bigger and better than AFL and two get it right with expansion?

So far I think they are failing with the Bears. The people in charge are weak and will ensure that that franchise struggles for at least the first 5 years. With the PNG franchise it's a wait and see at this point, but with tax free dollars and a $600+ kitty to fall back on and work with, it should do well enough at least.

Also with the stadiums, he has scored a mixed bag, but overall from my perspective he has failed. To not get a better outcome for Penrith and the Olympic stadiums is a huge loss for the game. Then there is the Canberra ongoing circus that just get a start. Not to mention a new 30-40K seat stadium that should be pushed for the Liverpool area for both the Tigers and Bulldogs to call home. Also with the Olympics in 2032, he has managed to get a massive duck egg for the game up there too.

Anyway, I like V'Ladys and he has done a great job for the NRL over all, but he has also had some woeful failures and losses as well...like the last TV deal, which the less said the better.

See that is how you go about talking Union in a League forum mate...

I agree with everything you've said but the 2 failures and yes they are failures ( stadiums and TV deals)
I will apply some grace as the TV deal was negotiated around covid and I think we can all agree, nobody really knew what the world was going to look like, so it's a bad deal only in hynd sight.
And on stadiums, he got f**ked by government and we're all getting f**ked by government.

 

[Gobsmacked]

Nah, Harbour was just part of Auckland, and Northland was just called North Auckland.

That's definitely up there with the top 10 things nobody gives a f**k about.

 

[Matua]

Interesting these chats from our resident Kiwis and the pivot towards npc. All is good and well and I'm sure it can be a good little competition but it's fundamentally flawed.
How's the NPC going to pay players? The broadcast revenue will be miniscule. What numbers are we talking about salary wise? 2 million per club? That will be kinda affordable on a small NZ TV deal and that's on a squad of what 35 40 Players ?
That's an average of 50k , you can't live on that, so you're talking about a semi pro competition where any real talent goes to NRL, Japan, Europe ect.

Sure, you'll top up the accounts of 40 or 50 All blacks but look who they're sharpening their skills with.. part timers - that won't work.

You're going to have to start picking players from outside the NPC, at that point all the talent can go where it wants and nobody cares about the NPC which sends the NPC into it's own death spiral

I don't think people on the Union side see how structurally broken Union becomes if SR is disbanded.

Rugby Union in the Pacific is in a managed decline which is accelerating.

I think this post is more hopeful than realistic.

The TV deal will likely be the same as it is now. The TV deal is driven by the ABs, and after that the best rating Super games are NZ v NZ ones, and that's what funds the game now.

Currently NZR funds the AB and Super salaries and pays a portion of the NPC salaries. That is probably able to be stretched to a 10 team NPC.

 

[Matua]

That's definitely up there with the top 10 things nobody gives a f**k about.

Well clearly @Matiunz and I do, so you're wrong.

What a weird post to get pissy about.

 

[Gobsmacked]

I think this post is more hopeful than realistic.

The TV deal will likely be the same as it is now. The TV deal is driven by the ABs, and after that the best rating Super games are NZ v NZ ones, and that's what funds the game now.

Currently NZR funds the AB and Super salaries and pays a portion of the NPC salaries. That is probably able to be stretched to a 10 team NPC.

Of course. I love your sunshine and rainbows, never fails and only days after another SR franchise collapse. Great effort!

 

[Gobsmacked]

Well clearly @Matiunz and I do, so you're wrong.

What a weird post to get pissy about.

Pissy? How does not caring about something equate to pissy? That makes zero sense.

 

[Matua]

Of course. I love your sunshine and rainbows, never fails and only days after another SR franchise collapse. Great effort!

You know I like to rein in your exuberance so you don't get disappointed when your dreams don't eventuate. But, I note as usual you haven't commented and contradicted he actual content of my post.

MP folding is not really the disaster you think it is. It was always destined to fail, a well intentioned attempt at creating something for the PIs that realistically had no chance of succeeding.

Pissy? How does not caring about something equate to pissy? That makes zero sense.

You cared about it enough to respond to the post when all you needed to do is just ignore it.

 

[Gobsmacked]

You know I like to rein in your exuberance so you don't get disappointed when your dreams don't eventuate. But, I note as usual you haven't commented and contradicted he actual content of my post.

MP folding is not really the disaster you think it is. It was always destined to fail, a well intentioned attempt at creating something for the PIs that realistically had no chance of succeeding.


You cared about it enough to respond to the post when all you needed to do is just ignore it.

Around 20% of the full time professional Rugby players in NZ just got canned, along with any sponsors, pathways and junior development deals.

You're cool with it, that's great - so am I!!

"You cared about it enough to respond to the post when all you needed to do is just ignore it. "

I've ignored you guys blabbering for 2 pages lol
I'm just reminding you nobody gives a f**k..
There's other people that may want to read something remotely interesting.
You could just send him a PM for this clearly personal chat nobody else wants to read.

 

[Wb1234]

TikTok - Make Your Day

Sa kicked out of sr due the depreciation of their currency meant nz would have to cover them financially as well as the rest of the comp via the shared tv deal

nothing to do with travel or time zones

and explains why nz hasn’t been keen on their return

 

[Vee]

It’s actually not a good thing for the NRL in some ways. With local club union and soccer in a shit show it becomes harder to partner for stadium upgrades. Now international rugby and international soccer is pretty strong but those games are fewer between.

Not that we ever have. Wankbest perhaps.

 

[Matua]

Around 20% of the full time professional Rugby players in NZ just got canned, along with any sponsors, pathways and junior development deals.

You're cool with it, that's great - so am I!!

I'm not "cool with it", it's just not as big a deal as you're making it out to be. Those 20% of players mostly weren't available for NZ anyway, it's made no difference to the sponsors, pathways and junior development deals in NZ. It just means less PI qualified players have Super Rugby as an option, which sucks, but realistically the finances were never there to make it workable in the long term.

I've ignored you guys blabbering for 2 pages lol
I'm just reminding you nobody gives a f**k..
There's other people that may want to read something remotely interesting.
You could just send him a PM for this clearly personal chat nobody else wants to read.

Bahaha ya big baby, there was at least 5 posters having that discussion.

 

[Gobsmacked]

I'm not "cool with it", it's just not as big a deal as you're making it out to be. Those 20% of players mostly weren't available for NZ anyway, it's made no difference to the sponsors, pathways and junior development deals in NZ. It just means less PI qualified players have Super Rugby as an option, which sucks, but realistically the finances were never there to make it workable in the long term.


Bahaha ya big baby, there was at least 5 posters having that discussion.

Oh, you're not cool with it..glad you could admit that. You've made real progress today.

 

[Matua]

Oh, you're not cool with it..glad you could admit that. You've made real progress today.

This might just be your stupidest strawman.

 

[Matiunz]

With 2 full NRL pathways on the South and North Islands for Both teams and the absence of a fully professional Rugby Union comp- 90% of the best talent in NZ is in League and with 2 teams of 13 million dollars of talent in the biggest Rugby comp in the world.. so is the audience.

This is taking the assumption that Union players will just up and decide to go to League.
Hypothetically if SR folded tomorrow would all of those players just decide to go play league?- unlikely. Salaries are often quoted but NRL already has superior salaries and it isn’t enticing the top Union talent.

As I’ve said since the start of this thread if League really wants to dominate Union in NZ it needs to get in everywhere that Union currently is- particularly the provinces.
Chch as NZ 2 is a great start but you still have about 60% of the population living in areas where league either doesn’t exist at all or if it does it’s at a very poor standard- get talent playing there and they could make some decent inroads. The love for the Warriors is there but the opportunity to play isn’t often.

 

[Gobsmacked]

This is taking the assumption that Union players will just up and decide to go to League.
Hypothetically if SR folded tomorrow would all of those players just decide to go play league?- unlikely. Salaries are often quoted but NRL already has superior salaries and it isn’t enticing the top Union talent.

As I’ve said since the start of this thread if League really wants to dominate Union in NZ it needs to get in everywhere that Union currently is- particularly the provinces.
Chch as NZ 2 is a great start but you still have about 60% of the population living in areas where league either doesn’t exist at all or if it does it’s at a very poor standard- get talent playing there and they could make some decent inroads. The love for the Warriors is there but the opportunity to play isn’t often.

Personally I'd like to see a national comp in NZ but you kinda need a second team for that to feed into.
The Wahs could have a few on the north Islands, the South Island have a few, add Samoa, Tonga, FIJI and PNG, then you have a solid second division that works like a NSW cup.
That comp then acts as the feeder comp for Wahs, Chiefs and NZ2

That would ideal after NZ2 imo

 

[Gobsmacked]

This might just be your stupidest strawman.

Strawman ? I'm not sure if you're applying that term correctly.