What to do with Level 3 - Parramatta Leagues Club

[carson]

oh excuses excuses .... its 1 train ffs - on at perth, off at parra .... even i'd have to catch 2 trains from where i live

;-)

Train... I can't afford that, what do you think I am, a pensioner?

Besides have you ever seem "last train to Freo", if you have ever done the trip you will realise that it's closer to being a documentry than a movie!!

 

[The EELiminator]

maybe we could turn it into a video arcade like kaos in panthers.....get the kids trained early on to throw their money away in machines with flashing lights before they grow up and move downstairs

some of the space could also be used to make a new merchandise store thats bigger than the broom closet we currently have

 

[johnkolc]

As Axl Rose was wont to say, "Yowza!". This thread has grown legs upon legs. However to my first point.

OK, just so some of the ideas for the 3rd floor aren't lost inbetween the part of the long-winded and somehwat tangental debate that I have been caught up in (and have now hopefully put to bed), I think these were the ideas that people have suggested in single posts in recent pages:

Gym (Haynzy)
Paintball Centre (Colonel)
Something to fill the $6mil revenue hole that the club's pursuit of pokies has left us with (Delboy)
Somewhere that indicates a home game is about to start in the next few hours (Carson)

There was another suggestion from some old mate about having games area for kids like Penrith. I for one reckon all the ideas are good and valid and should be considered to establish the potential for utilisation, revenue and outlay costs of each.

Personally, if I magically turned into some sort of Rusty/PHaC type benefactor/sponsor of the club and had to answer the question of what to do with level 3 of the LC, and in turn how to generate further revenue and involve both Parramatta fans and the community at large, it would be a bit daunting trying to come up with the answers on my own. So if money weren't an object I would be looking at one of two things:

1) engaging some consultancy firm to look at both the leagues club operation/utilisation and the entire membership/fan engagement operations; or

2) finding the best AFL club membership manager from down south (although I believe West Coast have to turn people away from memberships??? :crazy and the best hospitality club manager in the state and attempting to headhunt both to our club.

Again reiterating money not being an object. Aligning the club with these types of successful operators would ensure that we jump ahead to be top of the game and get value for money on existing assets while working to ensure future financial viability.

With regards to the bartman et al vs. fish et al discussion regarding putting hard questions to the 3P and/or LC Board groups. Seems to me that what fish really wants to know is what advantage is there to be gained from returning to the old structure to help him in deciding how to vote. Which is fine, but as yet there has been no answer.

I'm speculating here, but perhaps the answer hasn't come yet because either PF hasn't had much time to get on this week; OR it's because he needs to go back to the ticket to clarify their position on this.

Either way I'd be willing to bet that your question is one of those he intends on getting to when he next logs on. If you don't get an answer on this prior to the election though then you'd be more than entitled to let it inform your voting on the day.

To clarify my own stance on the elections I'd have to say I'm a 3P supporter and look forward to seeing their ticket for the elections. I do enjoy though getting to hear the questions of the unconvinced put to 3P on this forum though and look forward to more of that happening as the election gets closer.

In closing I will say that Terry's post of earlier in the day was music to my ears. To have a premiership-winning player walking the streets of Parramatta late at night in an effort to help improve our club tells me there is hope for our club after all. What we all want is to return this blue and gold mob of ours into a real powerhouse of the league for generations to come.

 

[strider]

It's an open invitation... Ovo read it on here, other current Board members could have done themselves a favour to find out what some of the members opinions are by reading here too.

Are we again saying the current Directors need to receive gilt-edged personal invitations to come to an open meeting being held in a public part of the club that they are elected to direct? In my view - Ovo aside - a main reason why people voted for a change at the FC elections was the invisibility of the Board members... will we give them excuses to continue that behaviour toward their members?

I guess all my point was on that is, that if Ovo - in fairness, not the youngest or most computer literate of gents - can find out about these meetings and the opportunity to attend, then what's stopping the other six LC Directors doing the same?

Or as you (almost) say, what's wrong with Ovo (doing a Col) and simply telling the other 6 about the event he's found out about when they got together for their (LC) meeting this month?

I suppose that's my point as well. Strides, with all due respect, I thought we'd made that pretty clear. Not quite sure why YOU keep bringing this up? :?

Suity

maybe I'm alot dumber than I think I am but I'm sure these are referring directly to the 3P meetings and thats what I was REPLYING to .... every time I have brought it up was a reply

 

[Suitman]

maybe I'm alot dumber than I think I am but I'm sure these are referring directly to the 3P meetings and thats what I was REPLYING to .... every time I have brought it up was a reply

OK, I'll state my position clearly, hopefully, once again. I just would think that they would be out there trying to sell themselves as much as possible. How they do that, is up to them. Whether they think that they need to do it, is another matter. I put a few suggestions forward that were challenged, which I debated. That's fine.
That tbh, is my only line of thinking on this matter, and all I was ever trying to convey.

Suity

 

[strider]

thats cool - and I agreed with that sentiment in a post just above ..... i just disagree with the posts that creep back into the thread about them not showing at these meetings

 

[bartman]

Ovo is Ovo - the other 6 are different ppl with different lives ...... ovo didn't even know if he was allowed to come - asked permission ...... seriously - if ppl expect them to come then go and ask them - if they turn you down then fine, complain about them

I think that's where we are all going around in circles.

I'm not expecting them to come as such, have just been been commenting about what their lack of doing so (Ovo excepted) actually signifies about Director/member relations in the bigger picture. That is that the LC Directors (Ovo excepted, who did this anyway) haven't taken the main message from the kick they received at the Fc elections.

 

[bartman]

maybe I'm alot dumber than I think I am but I'm sure these are referring directly to the 3P meetings and thats what I was REPLYING to .... every time I have brought it up was a reply

I think you'll find my posts that you've quoted above were replies to your posts on the issue Strides? :lol:

 

[strider]

whatever

 

[junior009]

whatever

Best post in this thread for about 15 pages IMO

 

[bartman]

I think Bartman summed it up extremely well on his reccomendation in post 9, but just to expand on it slightly, I'd say it would be imperative to try and promote and fill level 3 every night/day of the week by staging activities such as Trivia, poker nights, karaoke, luncheons with guest speakers, fight nights (already touched on by PF) raffles, shows and comedy nights.

Goodness me, there's a heap of good ideas for better use of the empty 3rd fllor in this early post... as there have been in various one through this thread.

One wonders why these are no longer tried, or persisted with beyond the one attempt.

The after match function - first in several years I believe - drew what I thought was a decent turn-up. Through on a replay of the game, plus an open bar and suddenly the club might make some (albeit small) money out of its efforts.

If I'm reading right, anything that makes use of the empty third floor and makes more money than it costs has to be a good thing. It's not $6mil, but it helps the bottom line AND starts to get the non-pokie playing members (and sleeping Perpetual members that haven't bothered for ages) feeling part of their club once again.

 

[The P Eel]

Goodness me, there's a heap of good ideas for better use of the empty 3rd fllor in this early post... as there have been in various one through this thread.

One wonders why these are no longer tried, or persisted with beyond the one attempt.

The after match function - first in several years I believe - drew what I thought was a decent turn-up. Through on a replay of the game, plus an open bar and suddenly the club might make some (albeit small) money out of its efforts.

If I'm reading right, anything that makes use of the empty third floor and makes more money than it costs has to be a good thing. It's not $6mil, but it helps the bottom line AND starts to get the non-pokie playing members (and sleeping Perpetual members that haven't bothered for ages) feeling part of their club once again.

Surely it's as simple as encouraging people to go before and after games with replay's of previous games beforehand (or a preview with a host [MITS_Parra TV legend/Suity/Bartman/Jesseel/Hellsy/whoever/myself\\\\/] with a past/present player or tie it in with the legend idea to encourage patronage before after game). It surely could not be that hard to organise and advertise! A replay of the main game - post match interviews etc. And wht not have a TV dedicated to Rugby League on at Sterlos at all times. :thumn
The ideas of having family orientated activities for the kiddies surely has merit - perhaps eel for a day or whatever they do for the kiddies on game day could be incorporated into games etc on 3rd floor or portion thereof.

Let's just have somewhere in the leaguies that fans of the eels or sports fans fullstop can go, relax and feel welcome. As stated previously - it's not 6 million but it will put some much needed cash back into the place.

 

[Parra Future]

Hi all. Sorry for the day delay in me getting back online. I was extremely tired and needed some long overdue sleep. On top of that, I have been flat out all day at work today. I've spent the last two hours having dinner with my wife while trying to read some of the posts on here. By the way, I am in trouble for supposedly being married to League Unlimited and not her. I'm now going to try to go back to the posts I mentioned earlier to try and answer things as best I can. If I miss any questions, please re-post them to me again as there has been an awful lot to catch up on. To answer one of the posts I read about me having to go back to 3P to clarify answers to Fishy's post, I wish that was the case. I would have loved to talk to the others before responding tonight, but I have not had that luxury due to everyones work committments. I also saw that Terry came on line today and that was great seeing him online and the posts he put down. Enough gibbering from me however, I have to go back in time and start answering the posts. If you ask me something after this post, let me answer all the older ones first and then I'll get to it. There are a few I noticed that I wanted to quote so I need to go back to them as well.

By the way, I really want to try and wrap things up before midnight tonight. I really would like to sleep with my wife for a couple of hours instead of getting yelled out and using the spare room. Thanks.

On another note, I liked Helly's reply to Suity in regards to "the equivalent of nuts". Top response.

 

[Parra Future]

Surely it's as simple as encouraging people to go before and after games with replay's of previous games beforehand (or a preview with a host [MITS_Parra TV legend/Suity/Bartman/Jesseel/Hellsy/whoever/myself\\\\/] with a past/present player or tie it in with the legend idea to encourage patronage before after game). It surely could not be that hard to organise and advertise! A replay of the main game - post match interviews etc. And wht not have a TV dedicated to Rugby League on at Sterlos at all times. :thumn
The ideas of having family orientated activities for the kiddies surely has merit - perhaps eel for a day or whatever they do for the kiddies on game day could be incorporated into games etc on 3rd floor or portion thereof.

Let's just have somewhere in the leaguies that fans of the eels or sports fans fullstop can go, relax and feel welcome. As stated previously - it's not 6 million but it will put some much needed cash back into the place.

I just noticed this post before going back to the older ones. The P Eel, awesome post. Love it.

 

[Parra Future]

When I read suggestions like moving the pokies to Dundas, it really does concern me that the choice will be between the failed and the well intentioned but poorly thought out.

Seeing as Col is asking questions, I've got one for him (with some preamble), which to me, is pretty central.

It's well known 3P want to move the NRL operations back to the footy club.

The reasoning I've heard is that is where it belongs.

The other argument I've heard is accountability. Seems to me people were held quite accountable at the last FC elections.

Neither argument cuts it for me. The onus is on 3P to demonstrate the need to change it back from the current structure.

The core question is:
How will moving the NRL operations back to the football club guarantee the long term future of a stand alone Parramatta Eels more than the current structure?

Fish,

This is a good question and a tough one to answer considering I know you are going to want a damn good one. Before getting to your core question, if I can just cover the top part of the quote in regards to Dundas and the pokie comment. I could be wrong, but when I wrote a post late one evening, I'm sure I did post, this may be crazy and it was not a 3P idea, it was simply something I was throwing up in the air to hear what others thought? Do people believe it is crazy or do people think yeah it may work. I think Suity was one of the first to respond and his answer was pretty clearly a No. It was something along the lines of Don't go there. Again, it was not a 3P agenda and it was something that I personally was interested in what people may think of it just to hear what different opinions may come up from that. End of story on that one. I think it was a pretty clear and dominant winner for "don't do it". Which is good to know peoples opinions.

Onto your question. You made two points prior to the question regarding the question, so I'll cover those first.

Point 1 : The comment that we believe that is where it belongs. That would be correct, that is a statement that I and others have made and yes, it is a 3P belief that we wish to make happen and we stand by that comment.

Point 2 : The other argument I've heard is accountability. Seems to me people were held quite accountable at the last FC elections. That statement regarding accountability would be correct to. Again, that is something that I and others have said and it is 100% correct in what we believe should happen. I'll get back to this during the big question.

Then you said that neither of the above cut it and the question is :-

The core question is:
How will moving the NRL operations back to the football club guarantee the long term future of a stand alone Parramatta Eels more than the current structure?

Now your point in neither cut it is fine by me. Again, I'm interested in everyones opinions and it is good that you are putting things up in the air. I'm not trying to be technical here, but your question does talk about guarantee future MORE than current structure. Terry may discuss this answer in more depth than I will tonight due to time constraints but here goes. When I refer to the "Current Structure", I also am talking in terms of prior to the Football Club elections. With 7 men that were directors on both boards (FC & LC) making the decisions for both entities with the same CEO to carry things out, I must admit that there are several serious issues there. Firstly, is that who is going to question what the Leagues Club wants done if they are setting the rules and then the same individuals deal with it at the FC. Two, If no ideas potentially arose from the directors at the LC, well there sure as hell wasn't going to be any coming from the FC either considering they were the same guys. Thirdly and to me this one is extremely important. How do people expect 7 individuals + a CEO which is a bloody important position to give their 100% attention to two different organisations. Our belief was a mix of people on both boards, but not the same two on each. With this, there would be more room for questioning how things are done, more room for numerous people to assist in helping improve things and more time spent on both organisations. The Directors of the FC need to concentrate solely on the FC and the Directors of the LC should be focusing solely on the LC. Which brings me to an even more important point.

If the 1st Grade team was shifted back to the Football Club, the Football Club (lets not forget that it is called a FOOTBALL Club) then it is in control of all of the Football teams. It is rather strange that a Football Club runs grades but not the main one. It is rather bizarre. Those directors in that Club and the CEO plus all of the staff and assistants etc can concentrate purely on Football from the top to the bottom. If you have damn good juniors like we do, we should be taking them to the next level and have people in that organisation purely focused on that agenda. Not worrying about smokie laws and pokie tax's. Thats what the LC Directors should be doing. The unfortunate thing for the prior mob is that they were the controllers of both and I really do not know how they planned to get their heads around everything and still believe that they could make it work like clockwork. This is not putting crap on the current directors, it is merely a point. I don't believe that the current LC 7 directors and CEO could have put all their time into two entities. It had to be one or the other. Or a mixture of both. You have a Leagues Club losing significant amounts of money as Ovo has posted on here. What do you think people are going to concentrate on. Commonsense says that you need to fill that hole and quickly.

 

[Parra Future]

Guys / Girls,

I just screwed up. I did not mean to finish that post above. I accidently hit something so the next post is the finish to the above. I'm still going, sorry.

 

[Parra Future]

Part 2 of original answer to Fisheel before I screwed up and posted it too early.

Now on the issue of accountability as mentioned previously, how can you hold 7 guys accountable when they win so many club championships at junior level but the same 7 guys are losing a bucketload at the LC and the first grade team has not tasted what some would classify as success for many many years. How do you hold people accountable. You could say they are doing a good job, and you could say they aren't. It makes things exceptionally blurry to judge. Moving the first grade team puts everything into a FOOTBALL Club. It then should have Directors who have a mixture in both business and also in Football. Directors who know how to play the game, what problems you face as a player, how to cope with media attention, training, and etc etc. The guys on 3P will tell you that they want the players not just to be coached in Football, but in life as well. To make them know that people understand what they are currently going through. That people are there for them and they have all the time under the sun for them. Having it all under the one umbrella means the football teams can be held accountable in an area if the fans believe that they need to be. The mixture of directors means that full concentration can be given to that aspect. Having just juniors and not first grade does not make sense due to the fact why would you want a leagues club to be controlling it? You want the people dedicated to that business and the players looking after them from the start to the finish.

On the issue of the LC and the football team. It shouldn't be an area for those directors to be looking at. The only thing the LC should be looking at football related is the overall expense of that operation and the income that it is generated and how the whole lot is broken down. That should be provided by budgets drawn up by the CEO of the Football Club which has been approved by FC Directors and implemented by FC staff. A full blown team fully focused on the one area. The LC Directors sole focus should be on rebuilding a business to become profitable again. By doing that by attracting more patrons. To do that, they need to make the joint more appealing.

This is a long winded post Fish and I hope you do not think I am beating around the bush, but as I said, it is probably one of the most difficult questions to answer quickly that I have come across considering the fact that I know an answer of "Because it should" won't cut it with you.

To sum up the answer to this question. How will moving the NRL operations back to the football club guarantee the long term future of a stand alone Parramatta Eels more than the current structure?
My belief is that with the different boards focusing on their individual organisations, more will be achievable than currently. More focus and attention will be applied to both business' and different strategies can be carried out if need be due to separate boards. I'd love to go into more depth with you but time permitting at this point and other things that I need to answer make it difficult. Please let me know if you are coming down this Saturday so that I can make more time to sit down with you and we can cover this at length. Then you are more than welcome to come back online and post my response however you break it down. If we disagree, well thats ok. But I wouldn't mind covering it in a lot more detail than what I believe I possibly could via a post. In my head, it seems to be crystal clear, but writing it in a quick sort of format, I am probably struggling a bit. I hope this somehow provides a little more insight than previously.

You would really hope that all invovled (CEO, Directors, Senior Mgmnt and Staff) would be covering all aspects of just football orientated affairs and having no other distractions. The same can be said of the LC and all involved. You would hope that all would be purely focused on the business and not worrying about distractions outside of that. The 3P ticket that will be aimed at the LC election will be very business orientated. That is what the LC needs. Business people with experience who all bring something different to the table (and before anyone jumps down my throat saying that I just caned the current LC Directors, I didn't, I was explaining what 3P will be putting forward.

 

[Parra Future]

Ovo..

Is the assertion made in point two of the above post true and a fair reflection of the current situation. If so what is the infighting about, who is the cause, and can it be overcome. Surely the current Board Directors were elected to act as a team for the benefit of the Club, its success, both financially and socially.
Is the negative statement made in (3) correct.

Post 223. Pete, Ovo is too much of a gentleman to answer the above. I believe that you will understand what I am saying. Whether it is correct or not, do you think he is going to answer it online. If you want, I will send you a PM and provide you with a phone number and you can get the answer you wish straight away. You may not like what you hear however. Your choice Pete.

 

[Parra Future]

Isn't the MAIN reason (maybe only reason?) the NRL team is under control of the LC because the players/football staff wanted security after what happened at the Northern Eagles? ..... I seem to recall MITS saying BS and Shifcofske(?) spoke at the board meeting saying they wanted it ...... because at the end of the day we had the same board controlling both clubs, so what the hell difference did it make to the LC when their board ran the other board anyway?

Post 242. Correct on both parts. How it happened and why did it matter. The logic that they may not be able to guarantee funds I find hard to understand. For the FC to go broke, the LC would need to go broke. So no matter what side it was on, it was only going to go broke if the LC did.

 

[Parra Future]

As has already been said fishy, so the FC can run football, and the LC can run the leagues club, rather than have two mish-mashed entities run by the same people trying to do two very different things, with clear conflicts of interest

Post 280. Mickdo has a talent of saying the same thing as me in two sentences where it takes me two pages. Fish, we really need to talk about it because clearly I do not have the writing ability of Mickdo.

Mickdo, thanks for making it so brief. Appreciated.