The Player Drain

[Bgoodorgoodatit]

i was unable to find a comprehensive list of ex NRL players currently playing overseas or in other codes. so i took some action and tried to put one together.

i think with all the talk of the salary cap and player drain the component of that list that is the most detrimental to our game has to be the uk super league.

we seem to be able to replace the likes of SBW and Gaz ( although id rather still have them ) without to much damage to our product, but going through that list it really hit me as to the number of quality of players that we have lost to the uk. theres at least 1, if not 2 quality first grade sides in there.

i feel that the depth that those players would add to our current competition is definitely being underestimated.

here goes in no particular order

UK Super League
Clint Greenshields
Steven Bell
Setaimata Sa
Casey McGuire
Dallas Johnson
Chris Walker
Dane Carlaw
Willie Talau
Jeremy Smith
Luke Swain
Daniel Holdsworth
Ray Cashmere
Luke Williamson
Mitchell Sargent
Brent Sherwin
Rangi Chase
Dean Widders
Nick Youngquest
Michael Witt
Weller Hauraki
Adam Peek
Frank Winterstein
Ryan O'Hara
Lincoln Withers
Mark Bryant
Vince Mellars
Jake Webster
Michael Dobson
Clint Newton
Ben Galea
Michael Vella
Joel Clinton
Daryl Millard
Ben Jeffries
Tevita Latu
Brent Webb
Danny Buderus
Scott Donald
Brett Delaney
Kylie Leuluai
Greg Eastwood
Ali Lauitiiti
Shaun Berrigan
Craig Fitzgibbon
Mark O'Meley
Peter Cusack
Epalahame Lauaki
Willie Manu
Matt Orford
Brett Kearney
Heath L'Estrange
Steven Menzies
Glenn Hall
Brett Hodgson
Jamahl Lolesi
David Fa'alogo
Paul Whatuira
Brad Drew
David Faiumu
Matthew Gidley
Iosia Soliola
Francis Meli
Tony Puletua
Chris Flannery
Matt King
Michael Monaghan
David Solomona
Amos Roberts
George Carmont
Thomas Leuluai
Pat Richards
Mark Riddell
Phil Bailey
Iafeta Palea'aesina
Cameron Phelps


Rugby Union
Mark Gasnier
Sonny-Bill Williams
Craig Gower
Ryan Cross
Luke Rooney

AFL
Karmichael Hunt

 

[Someone]

Now list the juniors that debut for all the years these players started going.

 

[simostorm]

if all these players were still playing in the NRL still the quality of games would be much better.. some teams.. i just cant sit thro watching anymore.

 

[Iafeta]

A lot of average players in that list. Of course, I'd love to see Buderus, Brett Hodgson, Fa'alogo, Fitzy, Menzies and Matt King, but I'm not too fussed on most of the others. A lot of them are either players who never really achieved to their best potential here, or are past their best.

A couple of very good players in the union list... I wonder what Penrith's thoughts are given how well Luke Walsh is going given Craig Gower was such a big part of their club. I think they've progressed past relying on Gower now. Gasnier, the Dragons back line is of course not as good without him there but it is still a damn good back line, and then you have the mercenary himself - he who should not be spoken of. cutie is obviously a big loss, but Brisbane have this uncanny habit of bringing top players through. cutie himself is an example of that.

 

[Iafeta]

if all these players were still playing in the NRL still the quality of games would be much better.. some teams.. i just cant sit thro watching anymore.

Quit having a tug.

Your comment would be far more accurate if you said "If SOME of these players were still playing in the NRL still... blah blah blah."

Most of them are past it. Do you really think the comp misses Vince Mellars? Epalahame Lauaki? Dane Carlaw? Daniel Holdsworth? Weller Hauraki? Adam Peek? Daryl Millard? Ben Jeffries? Pullllleaaase.

 

[Jatz Crackers]

What a shopping list right there. The storm is looking to buy that lot + some extras.

Steve Menzies has reportedly declined the storms massive offer of $1.1m + boat + jetski ++.

 

[Vic Mackey]

i count 34 players all up who would make it into any squads top 25, and i was pretty harsh. about 15 of these could be considered 'Rep' standard

thats a pretty big case to up the salary cap, or bring in another team.

 

[Eels Dude]

I reckon only about 15 to 20% of those named in your list would crack first grade in the NRL at the current moment. That's mainly just a list of NRL rejects and has-beens.

 

[Parra]

Looks more like proof that there is no player drain at all.

 

[BDH]

i count 34 players all up who would make it into any squads top 25, and i was pretty harsh. about 15 of these could be considered 'Rep' standard

thats a pretty big case to up the salary cap, or bring in another team.

No offense; but can you tell me the 15?

 

[Leaguelegend20]

Lolesi, Hodgson, Sa, Greenshields, Menzies, King, Fitzgibbon, Pat Richards, not many are too good besides them

 

[Lockyer4President!]

Bringing back the Reds and Bears will take care of this. Two more clubs means another ~$8.2 million to spend on players that are currently O/S.

 

[Parra]

Bringing back the Reds and Bears will take care of this. Two more clubs means another ~$8.2 million to spend on players that are currently O/S.

You think that list is worth 8.2 million?

 

[BDH]

A couple of seasons ago, when Dog Williams did his Harry Holt and Pus Gould was ranting at David Gallop like a toddler who has lost his blankie, I made a post that "the exodus" was a myth. I made a list very similar to this, and 2 years later not much has changed, except Lote has come back.

I'm not saying players leaving isn't negative for the game, I'm just saying that the theory that "all" our talent is leaving is flawed at best. The best still want to prove themselves were they are, and play in the hardest week in-week out competition (of any form of Rugby) in the world.

Looking at that list, and being VERY generous (esp. toward NZ players), this is all I can find who would currently make a Rep. team. Remember, because someone was good, doesn't mean they would still make State/ National teams
UK Super League
Clint Greenshields
Dallas Johnson
Rangi Chase
Brent Webb
Brett Delaney
Greg Eastwood
Glenn Hall
Jamahl Lolesi
David Faiumu
Matt King
Thomas Leuluai
Rugby Union
Mark Gasnier
Sonny-Bill Williams
Craig Gower (could hardly hold down the NSW spot)
AFL
Karmichael Hunt


15 players at best, and some of those Kiwis are very questionable and would have no chance making a Rep team if they were Aussie.

 

[Lockyer4President!]

You think that list is worth 8.2 million?

Did I say it was?

 

[simostorm]

What about the players that left over the past 5 years that have retired now?

Someone get a list of that.. then you'll see where the thinning out is.

 

[WireMan]

You have to know that super league mainly uses Aussie stars to bulk out the comp as the player base isn't there in the Uk. We have a few high paid stars but its not like that in the main. Juniors want to play a different code of football in the Uk.

Now Quota numbers and youth setups are getting better that list will come down.

Oh and if the likes of Tronc, Cordoba, Fitzhenry for example can walk back into NRL teams i think you will find most of them would get into a team.

It shows that you could easily have a few expansion teams. Just with the super league players you could get a team that rates fairly close to the top NRL teams.

Personally i think there are to many overseas players and we need a greater depth of Uk players.

 

[Parra]

Did I say it was?

What other OS players would you add to make the point you are trying to make?

 

[Iafeta]

i was unable to find a comprehensive list of ex NRL players currently playing overseas or in other codes. so i took some action and tried to put one together.

i think with all the talk of the salary cap and player drain the component of that list that is the most detrimental to our game has to be the uk super league.

we seem to be able to replace the likes of SBW and Gaz ( although id rather still have them ) without to much damage to our product, but going through that list it really hit me as to the number of quality of players that we have lost to the uk. theres at least 1, if not 2 quality first grade sides in there.

i feel that the depth that those players would add to our current competition is definitely being underestimated.

here goes in no particular order

UK Super League
Clint Greenshields
Steven Bell
Setaimata Sa
Casey McGuire
Dallas Johnson
Chris Walker
Dane Carlaw
Willie Talau
Jeremy Smith
Luke Swain
Daniel Holdsworth
Ray Cashmere
Luke Williamson
Mitchell Sargent
Brent Sherwin
Rangi Chase
Dean Widders
Nick Youngquest
Michael Witt
Weller Hauraki
Adam Peek
Frank Winterstein
Ryan O'Hara
Lincoln Withers
Mark Bryant
Vince Mellars
Jake Webster
Michael Dobson
Clint Newton
Ben Galea
Michael Vella
Joel Clinton
Daryl Millard
Ben Jeffries
Tevita Latu
Brent Webb
Danny Buderus
Scott Donald
Brett Delaney
Kylie Leuluai
Greg Eastwood
Ali Lauitiiti
Shaun Berrigan
Craig Fitzgibbon
Mark O'Meley
Peter Cusack
Epalahame Lauaki
Willie Manu
Matt Orford
Brett Kearney
Heath L'Estrange
Steven Menzies
Glenn Hall
Brett Hodgson
Jamahl Lolesi
David Fa'alogo
Paul Whatuira
Brad Drew
David Faiumu
Matthew Gidley
Iosia Soliola
Francis Meli
Tony Puletua
Chris Flannery
Matt King
Michael Monaghan
David Solomona
Amos Roberts
George Carmont
Thomas Leuluai
Pat Richards
Mark Riddell
Phil Bailey
Iafeta Palea'aesina
Cameron Phelps


Rugby Union
Mark Gasnier
Sonny-Bill Williams
Craig Gower
Ryan Cross
Luke Rooney

AFL
Karmichael Hunt

i count 34 players all up who would make it into any squads top 25, and i was pretty harsh. about 15 of these could be considered 'Rep' standard

thats a pretty big case to up the salary cap, or bring in another team.

I count 7 that would have played in the upcoming rep series of football if they were still here. 7. Not 15. 7. There's players who may be fringe rep football level, but their loss of depth is superceded by youngsters who keep on coming through. Berrigan, King, Monaghan, good players, not sure if they're certainties for rep jumpers. In a lot of cases, I would suggest the players who will replace those 7 aren't that far off their level anyway. Compare that to the All Blacks or Wannabies situation - they would have a lot of players who have taken up overseas contracts and hence miss out on representative duties, and they're not even constrained by a salary cap! IMO, if both the NRL and ESL were not ridden by a salary cap, and perhaps take out the quota limitations they now have, the situation would be far, far worse for the NRL. The British economy is powerful, without restrictions they could go to town.

Is it really that bad? A lot of those players are I would say in the below average band of NRL players. IMO, two of England's top four are playing in the NRL this year, and would they do that if it was merely based on the cap, because they would make a load more money back there.

 

[WireMan]

I count 7 that would have played in the upcoming rep series of football if they were still here. 7. Not 15. 7. There's players who may be fringe rep football level, but their loss of depth is superceded by youngsters who keep on coming through. Berrigan, King, Monaghan, good players, not sure if they're certainties for rep jumpers. In a lot of cases, I would suggest the players who will replace those 7 aren't that far off their level anyway. Compare that to the All Blacks or Wannabies situation - they would have a lot of players who have taken up overseas contracts and hence miss out on representative duties, and they're not even constrained by a salary cap! IMO, if both the NRL and ESL were not ridden by a salary cap, and perhaps take out the quota limitations they now have, the situation would be far, far worse for the NRL. The British economy is powerful, without restrictions they could go to town.

Is it really that bad? A lot of those players are I would say in the below average band of NRL players. IMO, two of England's top four are playing in the NRL this year, and would they do that if it was merely based on the cap, because they would make a load more money back there.

Our Economy? We are just coming out of the worst Recession in a long time. Our teams play in the likes of Salford, Warrington, Wigan, Wakefield etc. hardly the financial centres of the universe.

Due to various factors like the exchange rate, development of game and the general view that in the UK we don't want average players the number would not increase that much.

By Average i mean most people on that list. Very few teams especially the better ones see any of there overseas players as integral to the team. Off the top of my head, Crusaders, Bulls, Cas and Hull are the only ones. Very few NRL players tear up the ESL, and some average ones go back and play NRL.