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Does the NRL need a cup competition?

lturner

Juniors
Messages
235
A knockout cup is a great idea. But it needs to include more than just the NRL clubs.

I think this is the best idea. 32 teams played over 5 rounds. First 4 rounds played over the 4 weekends when Origin and ANZAC test are on. The grand final played mid-week sometime after that.

Teams would be 16 NRL clubs + 16 from Qld Cup / NSW Cup and NSW Country. Play qualifying rounds to determine the 16 non-NRL clubs.

Some people might say that the non-NRL clubs would not be able to compete, but the gulf isn't as big as people think. Pretty much every year one or two NRL clubs play pre-season games against Qld cup clubs. The Broncos have played Redcliffe Dolphins quite a few times over the years, and the Redcliffe boys go alright. Worse thing that happens is that the non-NRL teams all get knocked out in the first round. But I think you would see an upset every now and then.
 

Th1rteen

Juniors
Messages
118
There seems to be mixed opinions.

Firstly I understand people are worried about player burnout but if it were 16 teams that would mean 15 matches, with 2/16 teams playing an extra four matches. The thing is though THAT IS PART OF THE GAME! You have to a have a great manager who can juggle his team to do the best in Cup and League. It's about maximising all your players, certainly if you are near the top of NRL and thus want to do "the double". You've got to juggle the team to give the best possible chance of winning both. Or alternatively you could play the same team and see how far you can push them. IT adds an extra dimension to both league and cup this way. I know at the start of Super League some teams target the Cup over the League, or the League over the Cup, although most obviously target both.


Secondly I personally don't know how good the likes of Queensland Cup and NSW and NZ teams are. Would they be competitive enough? Obviously the NRL clubs with always go into the match as favourites but there needs to be a few shocks! Although that can come from lower NRL teams beating higher ones to be honest. (sorry iturner I've just read you post now)

Oh and what about costs?? Would a team in North Queensland be able to fly to Melbourne or Auckland. Again I don't really know how much money these clubs have. Then again in the Challenge Cup we have teams from five countries playing including Russia and France, and Moscow Locomotive and Vereya Bears have flown over to Britain to play. French teams Pia, Villeneuve etc too.

The 1998 Final at Old Wembley is generally regarded as the biggest upset in British rugby league as Sheffield Eagles, formed in 1984, beat Wigan Warriors despite odds of 33-1! More recently Toulouse (when they were semi-pro) got to the Semi-Final in 2005 and of course Catalans Dragons became the first non-English side to get to the Final in 2007.

Some more positives that could be achieved if the competition is seem as legitimate and worthy of winning. A decent cup, players who want to win, the governing bodys who treat it as equally to the league competition:

* A second final - This would be the same as the Grand Final but probably a month- 6 weeks apart. It could be in Brisbane every year or could rotate with Sydney getting the Cup Final one year then the Grand Final the next.

* More television money/exposure - Super League is on Sky Sports, the Challenge Cup is on BBC One. Obviously the cup would have separate television rights to the NRL. You could have a different channel bidding for the cup rights, but either way you'd be getting much more money. If it were the 16 NRL teams then that would mean 15 matches which would certainly suit a terrestrial channel more than a pay-per-view one.

* Knockout rugby - Is a totally different ball game! Teams really do go for it in a way that I don't see in league rugby. It's do or die. You could say the same about individual NRL matches but hey that's just for points, whereas this is to get to the next round. Teams will put everything on the line, even the possibility of a thrashing, to get the win. In this respect it's like Play-Off rugby, not individual round rugby.

* A second team of Champions - Everyone likes a winners. I don't know the ins and outs of when individual teams realised they hadn't a hope in hell of getting to the Grand Final but you got to feel sorry for fans of North Queensland Cowboys, Cronulla, Melbourne, Canterbury who are languishing at the bottom of the league. Near the end of the season they probably thought, whats really the point now? Super League recently had relegation which meant there was a battle at the top of the table, and a battle the bottom, it was something for these teams to play for. Having a cup competition gives all teams another chance to have a successful season. Yes they might have finished 13th in NRL, but if Canterbury won the Cup then there fans and players would be going wild, just like St George when they won the Grand Final.

Teams, players and fans should be given the right to win TWO things in a season, not just one.
 
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AlwaysGreen

Post Whore
Messages
51,805
Extra games in a seaon are all well and good to watch but not to play. Rugby League isn't tiddly winks or even brickie's labouring - these guys go through severe exertion and body trauma every time they play a game. Yes, they 'only play 80 minutes a week' but that 80 minutes is high octane stuff that takes the body days to recover and days to prepare for. Extra games per season will shorten players careers, via serious and chronic injury as well as reduced desire to continue the train, recover, play cycle.

A knockout cup mid season can only happen if you take games out of the season proper. And I for one cannot see the point in that, in Australia the premiership is what its all about.

A preseason knockout comp has some merits over trial games but cash alone is not incentive enough for clubs to take it seriously, it has to be something the clubs want to win.
 

Big Pete

Referee
Messages
29,246
No, unless they decide to make a compromise to the NRL season proper and make it 15 full rounds a season.
 

Canard

Immortal
Messages
37,254
Super League has a cup and a league with finals.

Thats only a recent addition though isn't it?, prior to this the Challenge Cup was the only game that you could equate to Australian Leagues Grand Final and the English League used to be an EPL first past the post.
 

The Observer

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
1,742
I'd like to see a Cup competition staged before and after the midweek Origins and ANZAC test, however, I'd exempt rep players from playing in it (due to being involved in rep football). That would allow the rep players time to properly prepare and recover from rep football, but also not disadvantage teams in the NRL proper when they supply players to rep games.

Rather than the Cup a knockout competition, staging a second competition (pool based) would still mean each club plays 12 home games per year (8 NRL, 4 Cup): however, clubs would have a second trophy to compete for. This competition could provide a blooding emerging players (e.g. from NYC) a more gradual step towards the NRL.
 

hutch

First Grade
Messages
6,810
Perhaps Monday Night Football could be played for both NRL premiership points AND a challenge cup, with only 1 additional game - the final.

4 pools of 4 - play each other once - so 24 games total.

The top two teams on points at the end play for the cup final.

that is a damn good idea and probably the only way it could work! a cup knockout should never come at the expense of rep and test football, so i dont think we can add any more club games to the comp!
 

Jono1987

Juniors
Messages
1,533
Add more games? No thanks. The first step we NEED to take is reduce the amount of regular season games followed with a complete overhaul of the entire season schedule.
 

BDGS

Bench
Messages
4,102
I don't know if the NRL needs a cup competition but imo Rugby league in Australia does. Drop the trials and play a pre-season knockout comp. With the losers taking on other losers in the weeks after they are eliminated.
 

flippikat

First Grade
Messages
5,796
I'd like to see a Cup competition staged before and after the midweek Origins and ANZAC test, however, I'd exempt rep players from playing in it (due to being involved in rep football). That would allow the rep players time to properly prepare and recover from rep football, but also not disadvantage teams in the NRL proper when they supply players to rep games.

Rather than the Cup a knockout competition, staging a second competition (pool based) would still mean each club plays 12 home games per year (8 NRL, 4 Cup): however, clubs would have a second trophy to compete for. This competition could provide a blooding emerging players (e.g. from NYC) a more gradual step towards the NRL.

Actually this solves 2 problems...

* it gives clubs that are 'off the pace' in may a chance to play for something else where each team starts on zero.

* The premiership itself - if it's suspended during Origin - won't be effected by origin players being unavailable.

The only downside I suppose is having the premiership suspended for a month, but I think something similar is going to happen with Super Rugby (I think from 2012 on it will be suspended for a test season) so there is a precident there...
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
74,302
looking at the AFL's NAB cup with envy at the way they use it to take their game all over the country.
 

applesauce

Bench
Messages
3,573
The AFL today confirmed they will have a "FA style CUP" with state vs state teams (+ GWS) playing each other as the warm up matches before Saturday night games.

Didn't bother to find out if AFL teams would be included at any point.
 

flippikat

First Grade
Messages
5,796
The AFL today confirmed they will have a "FA style CUP" with state vs state teams (+ GWS) playing each other as the warm up matches before Saturday night games.

Didn't bother to find out if AFL teams would be included at any point.

something like this would be nice with NSWRL, Qld Cup, and other states' teams (eg South Australian Residents team) competing.

Also, for the NSW and Qld premierships, I'd love to see a clash of the 2 grand final winners at the end of the season. Preferably on NRL Grand Final day.
 

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