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The Tinkler thread

Serc

First Grade
Messages
6,902
War of words as Newcastle claim $100m bid has changed
Robert Dillon
February 21, 2011

NEWCASTLE officials and Nathan Tinkler were at loggerheads last night as they prepared for a showdown today that will determine if the billionaire abandons his plans to privatise the club.

Read the statement from the Tinkler Sports Group
Read the statement from the Newcastle Knights' board

In an apparent response to suggestions by the Tinkler Sports Group on Friday that the Knights had been tardy in taking a $100 million, 10-year proposal to their members for ratification, the club issued a press release yesterday to reveal there were ''key commercial elements which we still need to be satisfied on''.
In the statement, Knights chairman Rob Tew said he was confident both parties could ''successfully negotiate the outstanding issues'' at today's summit.
But Tew then detailed the Knights' belief that fundamental aspects of Tinkler's takeover bid had changed since it was tabled on January 17.
After giving in-principle endorsement on January 19 to Tinkler's offer, Tew said three components of the deal had since been altered.
Tew said ''the first and overriding issue'' was that the offer, as it stood, ''represents a significant departure from the $100 million proposal guaranteed to be paid over 10 years that was announced by The Tinkler Group last month''.
He said: ''The present offer does not commit to a 10-year period. The offer of guarantee at present is for a period of two years, and does not commence until March 31, 2012.''
He said TSG wanted to calculate all revenue, including ticketing and membership, in its definition of ''sponsorship income''.
''On that basis, the total is already as high as $10 million, and therefore the contribution by the Tinkler Group would be zero,'' Tew said.
He said there was no guarantee if TSG sold the Knights within 10 years that the new buyer would commit to the same level of funding.
The Knights insist the members should be given a ''stated buy-back sum at the outset of the agreement'' or be empowered to ''enforce the obligations of the guarantee and other conditions upon an incoming purchaser for the remainder of the 10 years''.
Tew also alleged that TSG had ''removed the commitment to junior development from the documentation'', and the club would require ''an iron-clad commitment guaranteeing a minimum expenditure''.
TSG executive chairman Ken Edwards said the Knights had either misinterpreted Tinkler's offer or were ''being mischievous, at best''.
''To suggest that it's not a 10-year offer, or it's not $100 million in sponsorship and hospitality commitments is totally wrong and refuted, in the strongest possible terms,'' Edwards said last night.
''We're bemused … they clearly haven't understood the documents or are being mischievous in some sort of negotiating ploy. But we strongly deny that the offer we've documented isn't consistent with our previous offer. It is wrong to say we have moved the goalposts.''
Edwards conceded there were ''risk scenarios'' in the proposal but they were ''hypothetical''.
''They are things that are unlikely to happen that might mean the club isn't held by the Tinkler Group for 10 years,'' he said. ''For example, what happens if the Tinkler Group goes into liquidation? The Tinkler Group isn't going to go into liquidation, but if it did, it's a technical argument that is mischievous at best.''
Edwards reiterated that if Tinkler was not satisfied by today's meeting, and given a date at which members could vote on his proposal, he would abandon any further negotiations.
''It's not a line in the sand,'' Edwards said. ''We've made it very clear to them that a deal either gets done tomorrow or it doesn't … our offer expires tomorrow if we can't reach a deal. Then it's up to members to either support the current board or for members to move against them with a vote of no-confidence.''
Asked whether he expected a tense atmosphere at today's summit, Knights chief executive Steve Burraston replied: ''Certainly not from our point of view.
''We're still starting to work towards a final conclusion … I'm not aware of any ultimatum or being summonsed to a meeting or whatever has been reported.
''This meeting was always scheduled, and all our meetings have been amicable to date, and hopefully they will continue that way.
''The important thing is the members have all the information documented so they can consider it because it is a critical decision - the most important decision made in our club's history. It's a very complex issue, and it's very important that we don't rush it.''
Edwards disagreed. ''Clearly there is tension [between the two parties],'' he said. ''There is no question about that, and that's unfortunate.
''But, at the end of the day, the objective that both parties need to keep in mind is getting the best possible outcome for Newcastle, northern NSW and the Knights.''
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...laim-100m-bid-has-changed-20110220-1b13l.html
 

Scarves

Juniors
Messages
612
Newcastle are going backward. They've been treading water for many years. The debt is getting bigger, the interest on the debt is compounding. The Tinkler offer like it or not is an opportunity and is better than the current plan that is in place at the club.

Where does Newy go if Tinkler pulls his offe and subsequently pulls his current sponsorship deals?

It's obvious the current administration will no longer have jobs under a Tinkler led power deal. Everything else is subterfuge.

Give the man the keys.
 

Alex28

Coach
Messages
12,226
Lets just be clear on something here. The board (in it's voluntary capacity) will be liable to be sued by any member if they get this deal wrong. They are personally liable. This is why they are being so careful about getting it right. This has nothing about protecting jobs. If they wanted to protect their jobs they wouldn't have suggested to the members that the Tinkler offer is the way to go in the first place.

There appears to be some massive gaps in what was originally pledged to the members, and what has been officially put to the board. The board has done the morally correct thing in telling the members of the club of their concerns around the deal given they are under substantial pressure to get a deal done this week and have it official prior to kick off.

The sponsorship issue is of massive concern. Perverse - I hear what you are saying but the cap at what he puts in is pointless if:

* our current revenues are already greater than that cap; and
* there is nothing and nobody to enforce him putting in anything.

I'm not worried about the official takeover date. If the club remains the members this year I'm fine with that. Why doesn't the present offer commit to 10 years though, and why does it start about 3 rounds in to the 2012 season?

The Herald suggested the members get to buy back the club for the sum of $1. Now it is for every cent that Tinkler contributes to the club.

These questions need answers and shows that the deal needs to be properly investigated and not rushed in to. Tinkler is doing everything he can to pressure the members and the board to accept the deal which is heavily in his favour - throwing his weight around in the player market promising us the world, telling the board that they have this week to accept the offer or it is gone.

If he doesn't want to own the club until 2012 why do we need to make the decision in such a hurry?
 

Alex28

Coach
Messages
12,226
Newcastle are going backward. They've been treading water for many years. The debt is getting bigger, the interest on the debt is compounding. The Tinkler offer like it or not is an opportunity and is better than the current plan that is in place at the club.

Where does Newy go if Tinkler pulls his offe and subsequently pulls his current sponsorship deals?

It's obvious the current administration will no longer have jobs under a Tinkler led power deal. Everything else is subterfuge.

Give the man the keys.

If he pulls his current sponsorship of $300K per year I suspect we'll still be OK. We'll have to pay his $500K loan back however lets not forget there is an alternate offer to purchase the club from another group.

You probably didn't know that did you? We don't need other teams fans coming in here sprouting their mouths off about the future of their club when they are not informed. Why don't you worry about the future of your own club.
 

roopy

Referee
Messages
27,980
Newcastle are going backward. They've been treading water for many years. The debt is getting bigger, the interest on the debt is compounding. The Tinkler offer like it or not is an opportunity and is better than the current plan that is in place at the club.

Where does Newy go if Tinkler pulls his offe and subsequently pulls his current sponsorship deals?

It's obvious the current administration will no longer have jobs under a Tinkler led power deal. Everything else is subterfuge.

Give the man the keys.
That's not true.
The club made a profit last year and even without Tinkler the new stadium and new sponsers mean that the club will very soon pay off the debt. The current admin have seen over a million a year extra put into the football budget.
With or without Tinkler, our future looks rosy. He might offer a better future for the club, but he is not saving the club or anything. It is in fine shape.
 

macavity

Referee
Messages
21,029
Lets just look at the offer as put by Tinkler:

http://www.theherald.com.au/news/local/news/general/the-offer-in-detail/2049685.aspx

THE OFFER1. The Tinkler Group will:
(a) Guarantee a minimum of $10million (annually adjusted for CPI) in sponsorship revenue (in sponsorship and corporate hospitality sales) to the club each year for 10 years, ie $100million plus CPI over the next 10 years. It has been indicated by you that the current sponsorship commitments are in the order of $7million annually. As per our discussions I would like the opportunity to review the details of current contracts and sales. Tinkler Group would be pleased to provide to the Knights members an annual audit certificate that the minimum guarantee has been satisfied.
(b) As you would recall my previous offer was to invest up to $10million to buy and operate the Knights NRL licence. This offer is revised and replaced by a) above. The sponsorship guarantee being offered effectively delivers incremental revenue streams in the order of $30million plus CPI for the Knights.
(c) Provide a guarantee that the Newcastle Knights will always operate as a ‘‘not for profit’’ organisation and that 100% of surpluses will be re-invested into both the Knights and junior development programs for rugby league in the Hunter Valley.
(d) Immediately settle all of the outstanding liabilities of the Knights. You have indicated this is in the vicinity of $3million.
(e) Ensure the club has adequate working capital at all times.
2. Knights members: existing and future will have the guaranteed right to control the club’s name, colours, location and home ground. In the most unlikely event that a change to any of these heritage issues were to be proposed it is understood and agreed that a 75% vote of members will be required.
3. In the unlikely event of an insolvency of the Tinkler Group, members will have the right to buy back the Newcastle Knights for $1. Further and as per my previous offer the members will have the first right for up to 90 days to buy the Knights from the Tinkler Group in the event that the Knights are offered for an orderly sale. The purchase price for members will be no more than the total consolidated losses, if any, of the Tinkler Group from the time of purchase to the sale offer date.
4. The broad intent of the mission statement and key strategic principles as set out remain substantially the same including the intention to appoint a Knights Rugby League Advisory Board made up of a chairman (appointed by the Tinkler Group), the chairman for the Newcastle Rugby League, 2 members of the existing Knights board (to be replaced by 2 elected directors after 2 years) and an old boys representative.

I would hate to think that the hold up is a departure from the intent of the offer.
 

B-dos

Referee
Messages
28,165
well

fingers crossed our inept board dont f**k this one up

the biggest offer in the clubs history and they are still f**king about.

if issues need to be clarified (and im of the clear opinion that our rabble of a club is hardly in a posistion push the envelope) then id have thought our board, whom some place 100% faith in, to work their f**king tails off to get the thing over the line quickly

if they have the interests of the club as first priority, they will ensure the deal is done today
 

Alex28

Coach
Messages
12,226
well

fingers crossed our inept board dont f**k this one up

the biggest offer in the clubs history and they are still f**king about.

if issues need to be clarified (and im of the clear opinion that our rabble of a club is hardly in a posistion push the envelope) then id have thought our board, whom some place 100% faith in, to work their f**king tails off to get the thing over the line quickly

if they have the interests of the club as first priority, they will ensure the deal is done today
Oh for f*** sake...Tinkler has obviously changed the terms of the offer and it is the boards fault the deal isn't done?

Agenda pushing at it's absolute worst. Don't mind the facts, don't mind that the offer has vastly changed to what everybody thinks that it actually is - just give away the farm no matter what the offer says...
 

B-dos

Referee
Messages
28,165
yes Gordon.

lol

3 to 4 mil in the black

and we think we have somethign to lose

i call it year 10 business studies

hey mac, hows your deal-killer board representation issue coming along?

gee that was a biggie...
 

roopy

Referee
Messages
27,980
No one takes Tinkler seriously when he says he will walk away every 5 minutes.

If he does end up walking away it will because the deal doesn't stack up, not because people aren't jumping to meet his deadlines.
 

B-dos

Referee
Messages
28,165
Let me play devil's advocate.

1/ He isn't wanting control of the club so he can sit on it and see it go badly.

2/ The club is currently worth minus 3 million or so.

3/ He wants junior development - loves the idea in fact.

In short - it might be a wild ride and we don't know where it's going, but we have nothing to lose, and a lot to gain.

well said roopy

although id only call it devils advocate in a forum like this

the rest of the world calls it common sense
 

Alex28

Coach
Messages
12,226
B-dos - when you are supposed to be offered a 10 year deal to fund the club, and the official offer only states 2 years, what does your Year 10 business studies suggest you should do with the deal?

Apparently you say you accept it any way in case the deal - any deal is fine apparently according to you - disappears...
 

Alex28

Coach
Messages
12,226
No one takes Tinkler seriously when he says he will walk away every 5 minutes.

If he does end up walking away it will because the deal doesn't stack up, not because people aren't jumping to meet his deadlines.
If the deal doesn't stack up? He was the one offering the deal that the board in principal accepted!

It is being delayed because he has changed the terms of the offer!
 

B-dos

Referee
Messages
28,165
Oh for f*** sake...Tinkler has obviously changed the terms of the offer and it is the boards fault the deal isn't done?

Agenda pushing at it's absolute worst. Don't mind the facts, don't mind that the offer has vastly changed to what everybody thinks that it actually is - just give away the farm no matter what the offer says...

i certainly am pushing an agenda alex

the "i have no doubt we will be streets ahead of where we are now with tinkler in charge" agenda
 

B-dos

Referee
Messages
28,165
B-dos - when you are supposed to be offered a 10 year deal to fund the club, and the official offer only states 2 years, what does your Year 10 business studies suggest you should do with the deal?

i agree that if the terms have changed to sucvh an extent the board is right to question the key elements

at present we arent exactly 100% clear on what has happened but i agree its a little suss

id agrue though that the board could and should be throwing all our resources at this to get it sorted quickly
Apparently you say you accept it any way in case the deal - any deal is fine apparently according to you - disappears...

well not exactly

but i certainly hold the voew that we will be miles ahead of where we are now with tinkler on board

unlike you and others i dont share the view that business as usual is an option
 

Alex28

Coach
Messages
12,226
Edit - he did resond in the end. Still might have failed Year 10 Business Studies though...
 
Last edited:

Alex28

Coach
Messages
12,226
i agree that if the terms have changed to sucvh an extent the board is right to question the key elements

at present we arent exactly 100% clear on what has happened but i agree its a little suss

id agrue though that the board could and should be throwing all our resources at this to get it sorted quickly


well not exactly

but i certainly hold the voew that we will be miles ahead of where we are now with tinkler on board

unlike you and others i dont share the view that business as usual is an option
So you are saying we should just accept the two year guarantee for funding then? After all - we'll be miles ahead of where we are now.

Hang on...he's offering to guarantee $10 Million in sponsorship revenue, however he has now changed that to include ticketing as well. So where we now earn around $12 Million in sponsorship and ticketing revenue, we have his guarantee that we'll at least achieve $10 Million in these revenue streams.

How exactly does that make us "miles ahead of where we are now"?
 

Serc

First Grade
Messages
6,902
Oh dear...looks like B-dos feels threatened that his title as 'biggest blind agenda pusher' in this forum is going to be officially taken from him by Coastbloke. I would've at least expected you to try and use some quotes from the TSG press release rather than sound like a Herald brainwashed drone by using the tried and true "hurry up stop protecting your jobs/stop dragging your feet, Mr Burro/Tew"...rinse and repeat...

Anyway, speaking of the TSG press release here is something I noticed in it:

http://images.smh.com.au/file/2011/...e Tinkler Sports Group.pdf?rand=1298200121052The Tinkler Sports Group also highlights its frustration that after more than a month of negotiation that the Newcastle Knights Board has yet to present all requested due diligence materials and have not honoured an agreement to consult in relation to key commitments regarding player contracts and sponsorship agreements.

Would I be right in saying that someone wants to make some moves in the player market (before they own the club) and is a bit grumpy that they don't have full details of our salary cap and the exact values that each player is marked down for?

Oh and also speaking of the Herald...again this is not the world's greatest measurer of public opinion, but I noticed the balance of comments for/against Tinkler on Saturday's article were also significantly changed from recent months, perhaps the tide is changing in the last few days, and people are starting to tire of Tinkler using the media to try and bully his way through things?

To be honest, I am disliking the guy and his crew more by the day...which surely would not be what he would be wanting to do with this vote coming up. If he keeps this up, even if our admin make sure the right things are in the detail, he runs the risk of the vote failing because of having pissed off all the members!
 
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