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Evolution of Rugby League positions

ozjet1

Guest
Messages
841
Thought Id start up a thread inviting people's thoughts on the evolution of strategy and use of positions in rugby league.

When I was playing club & schoolboy rugby league in the 80's, as well as heading down to Henson Park to watch the Jets and Rooters (while the SFS was being built) there were distinct differences in the type of attributes required and the roles performed for certain rugby league positions.

Props were big and slow, second rowers mightve been leaner and a little bit quicker, but both were generally used as battering rams up the middle, or sometimes 2nd off the ruck in the case of second rowers. essentially both roles in general play were the same with the differentiator being how they packed into the scrum.

The role of the halves in general play was more clearly differentiated with the halfback almost always being the first receiver from the ruck in a backline move, as well as being the link between forwards 2nd off the ruck hitups. The 5/8 would generally be the 2nd receiver in a backline play and would be similar to a 3rd centre. The centres themselves were classified as inside and outside as in rugby union.

But the full-time professional era has brought with it advances in coaching strategies, more efficient structures, and associated changes in how certain positions are used in the game today.

The props are still the big battering rams, but an ability to distribute the ball after making decent metres and heavy contact is considered a big asset. The Second Rower has become an extremely versatile, skilled and speed position in comparison to the second rower up to the 80 & 90s . They need to shoulder a load of gaining metres as a battering ram up the middle, but are increasingly being used in prefered side backline moves alongside centres, either as a decoy or intended ball receivers.

The differentiation between halfback and 5/8 is all but gone in general play, with any indicator to position being made at the scrum. In general play, the halves now have the same role but as prefered side specialists - left or right. Rarely will you see the halfback and 5/8 maintain roles at 1st and 2nd receiver in the conventional way we're accustomed too. If you note the play of Thurston and Lockyer for QUE, you'll see the former run the play on the left, and the latter on the right. Furthermore, in open side backline plays starting from the left, Thurston will be 1st receiver with Lockyer 2nd receiver. The opposite will happen in open side plays beginning from the right with Lockyer taking the ball at 1st receiver, Thurston 2nd. Additional capabilities such as kicking game are now based on an individual players ability rather their position.

Centres have now become prefered side specialists.

This has spawned greater requirements for balance, and specialised links and structures within teams both in attack and defense. Using SGI as an example, the left side structure is Hornby-Creagh-Cooper-Morris & the right side is Soward-Scott-Gasnier-Nightingale.

What are other people's thoughts? What was and is the role of the lock or loose forward and how are they used? Should the names of certain positions evolve with the change in how they're used? I for one think 'hooker' is outdated and the position would be more appropriately called dummy half bringing the role in line with that of general play, and also, clearly differentiating it from rugby union.
 

Wests is Best

Juniors
Messages
838
Thats a pretty fair assessment of how things have evolved position wise. The main instigator of most of what you have mentioned has been the use of channels in defence ie. the 2 props patrol the centre of the field then the 2nd rowers outside of them etc. whereas in the old days the forwards would try and follow the ball and defended mostly at the ruck. Halfbacks would get pissed off at the big forwards when you were slow in shuffling (yes I was a 2nd row/prop back then!). This constant shuffling would cause massive problems for the defense these days with professional players being fitter and fresher (thanks to interchange), they would be able to seize opportunity and find gaps easily.

Whilst I liked the structure of the game back then, I do concede that the way positional play has evolved is the better way to go. Its no longer so important for the big forwards to be defending at the ruck, because the backs these days are not all that small themselves and can hit just as hard.
 

AlwaysGreen

Post Whore
Messages
51,805
I reckon the evolution of the winger is one of the most overlooked aspects of league. Previously the role of the winger in attack was to finish off backline movements and chase down kicks hard. In defense their role was pretty much limited to stopping their opposite number from doing their attacking job.

Since the nineties a winger has to all these things plus put in the main work of getting the ball away from their own line and taking pressure of the forwards. In defense its the same - go infield to take pressure off forwards. Defensively they also are expected to make a lot more decisions on whether to come in or stay with their man, and whether to drop back to help with kick returns or stay in the line.

Add to this the amounts of different kicks they have to negotiate and the winger is no longer just a spot you fill up with a youngster but an absolute specialist who has to be quick, big and have the catching abilities of a fullback.

IMO only hooker has had more changes over the last 20 odd years.
 

Slackboy72

Coach
Messages
12,228
I remember the days of inside and outside centre. Now never the 'twain shall meet.
I think I've seen Cooper and Gasnier pass to each other three times in however many years. One of those was this year.
As to second rowers the first time I recall them running at centres was when Brian Smith had Scott Gourley and David Barnhill running out wide to great effect. Now it's all players like Dave Taylor do.

On a side note I hear the Wok and Gould are on a bandwagon to change the interchange rules so forwards get tired.
Will this see the death of the front rower in favour of an overly muscular second rower with greater aerobic capacity and stamina?
Be careful of what you wish for for it may just come true.
 

Knownothing

Juniors
Messages
764
The evolution of kicking is interesting. Back in the fifties, when of course there was no tackle limit, kicking duels between fullbacks like Clive Churchill, Keith Barnes, Gordon Clifford and the great Puig Aubert were highlights of the game.


When Bob Honan switched codes to play for Souths in the sixties, he tried a chip kick in attack (which didn't come off) and he was told never, ever under any circumstances to kick the ball again.


A few years later on, Eric Simms started kicking prodigious numbers of field goals, which led to the downgrading of points for this occasionally interesting aspect of the game.
 

AlwaysGreen

Post Whore
Messages
51,805
.
On a side note I hear the Wok and Gould are on a bandwagon to change the interchange rules so forwards get tired.
Will this see the death of the front rower in favour of an overly muscular second rower with greater aerobic capacity and stamina?
Be careful of what you wish for for it may just come true.
I agree. The little man is slowly being phased out with most sides having maybe three players below the 90kg mark and fullbacks and halves getting bigger each year. Reduce the interchange and the big solid frontrower will decline in number as well. All of a sudden you have a side full of 95KG - 110KG 185cm - 195cm types all of the same build, aerobic fitness and basic skill sets.

The game this year has developed into an evenly contested arm wrestle with sides waiting out who will give up a penalty first. Reducing interchange will just make that arm wrestle more evenly matched.
 

Angry_eel

First Grade
Messages
8,852
I reckon the evolution of the winger is one of the most overlooked aspects of league. Previously the role of the winger in attack was to finish off backline movements and chase down kicks hard. In defense their role was pretty much limited to stopping their opposite number from doing their attacking job.

Since the nineties a winger has to all these things plus put in the main work of getting the ball away from their own line and taking pressure of the forwards. In defense its the same - go infield to take pressure off forwards. Defensively they also are expected to make a lot more decisions on whether to come in or stay with their man, and whether to drop back to help with kick returns or stay in the line.

Add to this the amounts of different kicks they have to negotiate and the winger is no longer just a spot you fill up with a youngster but an absolute specialist who has to be quick, big and have the catching abilities of a fullback.

I was going to say this but you summed it up pretty well. Winger is a specialist position now. Even in the last 10 years since I have been watching the game, the position has changed. Players like Folau basically changed the position forever.
 

muzby

Village Idiot
Staff member
Messages
46,990
another key change has been the involvement of the fullback..

they have gone from being a predomiently defensive player, who would be a support player for inside balls in attack to being a key linch pin for the team - almost a 3rd half..


good assessment by the OP.. the key to all of these changes has been the move to professionalism & the weight & body changes to the players that come with it...

back when RL players still had day jobs, it was usually only the props that weighed in over 100kgs, however now if you look at most of the elite centres in the game, they are around or over the 100kg mark - and bloody quick to boot!
 

taxidriver

Coach
Messages
15,272
the evolution of the tackle has been enormous.

when i was a kid i was taught that if you weren't tackling around the legs you weren't tackling.

have a look at the style and numbers in a tackle today compared to the early eighties.

chalk and cheese
 

beave

Coach
Messages
15,934
on the lowering of the interchange numbers, what about increasing the game to 100 minutes??? 50 minute halves but with the same amount of interchanges, you get a similar result but with the added benefit of more chance of advertising during a game thus =more coin to the game. You would have to then look at golden point and if it needs to be scrapped but it's something that should looked at. With an increase in $$$ from advertising you will be able to compensate the players with more $$$$$$.

Just throwing it out there.
 

beave

Coach
Messages
15,934
oh and just to add, nice thread, is good to read something decent for once and not trolling/baiting bullshit that has become the norm in here.
 

Slackboy72

Coach
Messages
12,228
I agree. The little man is slowly being phased out with most sides having maybe three players below the 90kg mark and fullbacks and halves getting bigger each year. Reduce the interchange and the big solid frontrower will decline in number as well. All of a sudden you have a side full of 95KG - 110KG 185cm - 195cm types all of the same build, aerobic fitness and basic skill sets.

The game this year has developed into an evenly contested arm wrestle with sides waiting out who will give up a penalty first. Reducing interchange will just make that arm wrestle more evenly matched.

AFL has seen the phasing out of footballers in favour of athletes for two decades now. I don't want to see our game go down that path.
If Tony Lockett turned up nowadays in the juniors he'd never get past park footy.
The fact that someone with the body shape of Michael Weyman or Sam Thaiday can be successful in our sport is something we need to embrace and keep.
 

Red Bear

Referee
Messages
20,882
Lock has become another second rower essentially, as opposed to a second 5/8 it once was.

Defensive line structure has probably brought about some of the changes in the positioning eg lock used to do alot of the clean up work if the front line got beaten, nowdays it's just one line of defence.

Tackling is apparently now about hitting them around the chest and turning them down onto the ground, i couldnt have done that when I play (although I was mediocre), I was all about being in the middle of the field and letting them hit my shoulders, tackling traditionally.

I think professionalism has alot to do with how hybrid alot of the positions are now, these days everyone from winger to second row is a fairly similar build, extra gym work etc seems to have gotten rid of the odd shapes.


A few clubs still use a 5/8 in a proper sense. Benji tends to stand wider of the ruck, Carney and anasta also when they're at 5/8.
 

Slackboy72

Coach
Messages
12,228
oh and just to add, nice thread, is good to read something decent for once and not trolling/baiting bullshit that has become the norm in here.

Yeah it's quite notable for the posters it's missing.
(read: Bunniesman, besthalfbackPearce, Waiders_Pwemiers)
 

Parra

Referee
Messages
24,900
The game and it's strategies and rules evolve and always have. League itself is a game born from innovation and rule changes.

I don't know that the full-time professional era is what has led to the changes you describe.

Certainly in the case of the forwards one simple rule has led to the changes in style - the interchange rule. This has not only brought some change in strategy, it has removed elements or weakened them. The effect of the 'battering rams' and the stamina required as a result. This alters both attack and defence as fresh, fast legs can be brought in at any time.

The left/right side specialists is a major change in strategy. I can't see that professionalism brought about this change. It seems like a natural evolution in hindsight.

Removing almost any contest for possession is a major change in league and I think the game is worse for it.
 

Desert Qlder

First Grade
Messages
9,997
I'm not convinced the game will ever be without the traditional Front-Rower/Prop position. It is such a key element of a good football side and teams cannot win premierships or Origin series without them.

We can turn to the premier prop in the game at present - Matt Scott - for evidence. Scott has incredible strength to get through the advantage line, endurance to do it twice in a set and rarely looks to offlaod. The fact he doesn't really have the offload in his game does not detract in any way nor harms his team. His game is built for one purpose - to make as many metres as possible for his team. He does a sterling job of this.

That gaining of field position will always remain too important in our game and thus, props will be a key part of a football side. We can laud passing games and offloads all we want but if those two (or four) blokes aren't making the yards, their football team loses.

It is my favourite position on the field. I love watching the great Front-Rowers in our game.
 

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