Denan Kemp a Dragon 2012

[gypsy]

- but i disagreed with comparing him to Young as Young doesnt play above his weight.. as the stats Cagey provided state Young is actually the same if not heavier then most other locks.. hence i disagreed with your analogy.

i am not arguing with your statement "players are getting bigger over time" - i agree with that.. i am disagreeing with your comment that Young plays above his weight. this is false - he weight is "relative" to other players in his position

hope that makes it clear?

I understand what you're saying, and I'm not arguing with those facts.
My point though as I said before....is that there is a lot more to a players makeup than how they tip the scales.

In book terms, Young is the same or heavier than most locks in the comp....you're correct.
In Rugby League terms though, he plays lighter than most other lock forwards in the competition. Simple as that.

The way he backs into tackles to gain that extra metre, where someone else would stay upright and back their upper body strength trying to use a fend etc....
the fact his legs are shot to bits, and that's where any athletes power is sourced from....just watching Deano battle where his opposite numbers cruise by, it's plain as day to see.

Like I say, lot more to it than just the scales. He might be the same weight, but when you're giving away strength, speed and just about everything else that make a Rugby League player.....it doesn't mean much.

 

[Cagey Mac]

8 first grade-quality players to fill 5 spots is actually a pretty handy position to be in - especially since 4 of them have played Test football at some stage.

In an injury crisis you still have Beau Scott who can fill in. Then you're looking at blooding rookies like Evander Cummins. So we're 10 players deep when the first rookie appears. Not bad really

Yep and don't forget today's major announcement

 

[Cagey Mac]

I understand what you're saying, and I'm not arguing with those facts.
My point though as I said before....is that there is a lot more to a players makeup than how they tip the scales.

In book terms, Young is the same or heavier than most locks in the comp....you're correct.
In Rugby League terms though, he plays lighter than most other lock forwards in the competition. Simple as that.

The way he backs into tackles to gain that extra metre, where someone else would stay upright and back their upper body strength trying to use a fend etc....
the fact his legs are shot to bits, and that's where any athletes power is sourced from....just watching Deano battle where his opposite numbers cruise by, it's plain as day to see.

Like I say, lot more to it than just the scales.

Totally agree here Gypsy so; good get. He’s much more likely to encounter torsion from a front on position particularly if he’s upright which will exacerbate his knee injuries. Backing into tackles will ultimately give me more strength and leg drive in the tackle but he’s severely compromised and can’t go forward if he indeed breaks the tackle. He could incorporate an offload (or more of them) into his technique as he can readily sight players coming onto the ball from this position

 

[Ronnie Dobbs]

we should try & sign tim moltzen.

Comes off contract next season & would have good utility value.

this!

 

[Mr Red]

Yep and don't forget today's major announcement

add to that list Nick Emmett who can play wing, centre and back row if needed.

 

[Mr Red]

I understand what you're saying, and I'm not arguing with those facts.
My point though as I said before....is that there is a lot more to a players makeup than how they tip the scales.

In book terms, Young is the same or heavier than most locks in the comp....you're correct.
In Rugby League terms though, he plays lighter than most other lock forwards in the competition. Simple as that.

The way he backs into tackles to gain that extra metre, where someone else would stay upright and back their upper body strength trying to use a fend etc....
the fact his legs are shot to bits, and that's where any athletes power is sourced from....just watching Deano battle where his opposite numbers cruise by, it's plain as day to see.

Like I say, lot more to it than just the scales. He might be the same weight, but when you're giving away strength, speed and just about everything else that make a Rugby League player.....it doesn't mean much.

agree with this... but i wouldnt call it "playing above his weight". its more like "playing within his limitations due to injury"

the term "playing above his weight" refers to matching it physically with someone bigger than yourself.. which once again Dean Young isnt any smaller then other players in the same position
as per the original comment "Young was always a Graham O'Grady sized lock with a Phar lap sized heart"

 

[gypsy]

as per the original comment "Young was always a Graham O'Grady sized lock with a Phar lap sized heart"

Ok, lets wrap this up please.

O'Grady was giving away Kilos to his opponents.

Young is coming up against stronger, faster, more naturally gifted, physically dominant opponents who can train more than once a week, and have full use of the single biggest power source in a footballers body.

They both have big hearts.

 

[Breathingfire]

I've been taping games each week for years and often watch replays from years gone by and Dean Young has always backed into tackles. Long before his knees were shot.

 

[gypsy]

I've been taping games each week for years and often watch replays from years gone by and Dean Young has always backed into tackles. Long before his knees were shot.

Definitely. He's simply not as naturally strong/genetically gifted as other lock forwards in the game.

 

[Father Ted]

only difference is Young is 4 inches taller and 20kg heavier then O'Grady's playing weight...
Young is deceptively big - he is 6 foot and 100kg.
O'Grady played at 80kg..

There you go I did'nt think he was that big .

 

[Father Ted]

agree with this... but i wouldnt call it "playing above his weight". its more like "playing within his limitations due to injury"

the term "playing above his weight" refers to matching it physically with someone bigger than yourself.. which once again Dean Young isnt any smaller then other players in the same position
as per the original comment "Young was always a Graham O'Grady sized lock with a Phar lap sized heart"

I was trying very hard to make the point that Dean Young has more courage than far bigger opponents thats all. He's a player who will run into big boppers all day without hesitation.

 

[Minh]

He was one of the standout forwards in our last semi against the Broncos too, we need Dean Young I am happy to hear no retirements in the major announcement.

 

[j0nesy]

I was trying very hard to make the point that Dean Young has more courage than far bigger opponents thats all. He's a player who will run into big boppers all day without hesitation.

This I agree with.

Im not sure I agree with all that other stuff about him being weaker than other locks. Young was getting over the ad line and winning the wrestle more consistently than any of our other forwards in the latter part of 2011.

 

[gypsy]

Im not sure I agree with all that other stuff about him being weaker than other locks.

Watch him closely in 2012. It's only natural given he can't train, and his knees are buggered...speed brings its own power as well. Dean is giving away a big handicap right across the board.
anyway, there's nothing wrong with having different opinions.

 

[andrew057]

Kemp is not very good at all. Boarderline first grader.

 

[Minh]

Kemp at his best is better than most he is still young at 23.

 

[Willow]

Kemp is not very good at all. Boarderline first grader.

As in a boarder seeking lodgings?

He has has trouble cementing a first grade spot, but writing him off so early in his career is hardly a smart call. He's only 24 and he has played 38 first grade games, more than your average 'borderline' first grader. And he has been clocked as one of the fastest players in the game, knows his way to the try-line and he can kick goals - so those factors are worth something.

Plus he got busted his ribs and copped a collapsed lung last year in round 1, a season injury that pretty much stuffed up his career. Before the injury, the Broncos had him on a long term contract (at fullback). So don't get injuries mixed up being dropped.

Suffice to say, the jury is still out on Kemp.

Either way, at least he only needs to sign one contract to get a run.

 

[Drain the Dragon]

Fingers crossed we have a written release from Southern Districts RU....

 

[Willow]

I think Union have made it pretty clear that Kemp has been released, ARU officials have said he has been invited to look elsewhere... oh wait...

 

[Mr Red]

This I agree with.

Im not sure I agree with all that other stuff about him being weaker than other locks. Young was getting over the ad line and winning the wrestle more consistently than any of our other forwards in the latter part of 2011.

agree 100%
but in the interests of my sanity i let the discussion slide.... ;-)