IMO English Rugby League's Ruck

[southwalesrabbitoh]

is too fast, many SL matches I watch are all over the place, helter-skelter headless chicken stuff. I am in favour of some rule changes;

1)Have the defensive line back 12m from play-the-ball.
2)The defensive line has to be set before you can play-the-ball, so no more quick play-the-balls. This will cut out wrestling at the ruck as the ball carrier has to wait until the ref calls "play it" before he can play-the-ball. This also rewards a good legs tackle, where at the moment they have to leave go after the ball carrier has fallen to the floor.
3)The defending team can't move forward until the ball has reached the pick-up zone.
4)Players have to play-the-ball properly.
5)Reduce teams to 12-a-side, to compensate for the defence being set more often.
6)Get rid of scrums, have a backs play(6 v 6) instead, with everyone else standing on the touch line. The ball starts from the floor 12m in from touch.
7)Ban the up 'n' under for the fullback. Still have cross-field kicks, grubbers and chip kicks.
8)Reduce interchanges to 8.
9)Get rid of conversions.
10)Ban the outside of the shoulder barge.
11)Have 22 minute quarters, with teams changing ends at each quarter.
12)Put as many 4G pitches down as possible. Starting at Brookvale.

These changes would help the referees greatly, as I said the game is too fast in England, it's messy so much of the time. It would also help countries who can't afford two refs on the park also. Though I would still gave 2 refs if possible so one can referee the ruck area closely, obviously to make sure people don't walk off the mark and the markers are square.

 

[roughyedspud]

lol

 

[southwalesrabbitoh]

You posted on the wrong thread you Pommie banker.

 

[canberra_raiders2k2]

Topball baby !!!!

 

[miguel de cervantes]

ESL is a lot quicker, no doubt. This may be why they struggle so much against NZ and Australian wrestling, they rely on quick play the balls to create gaps in the defense for the Thompsons to run through. Neutralise this and they have very little in attack.

 

[druzik]

is too fast, many SL matches I watch are all over the place, helter-skelter headless chicken stuff. I am in favour of some rule changes;

1)Have the defensive line back 12m from play-the-ball.
2)The defensive line has to be set before you can play-the-ball, so no more quick play-the-balls. This will cut out wrestling at the ruck as the ball carrier has to wait until the ref calls "play it" before he can play-the-ball. This also rewards a good legs tackle, where at the moment they have to leave go after the ball carrier has fallen to the floor.
3)The defending team can't move forward until the ball has reached the pick-up zone.
4)Players have to play-the-ball properly.
5)Reduce teams to 12-a-side, to compensate for the defence being set more often.
6)Get rid of scrums, have a backs play(6 v 6) instead, with everyone else standing on the touch line. The ball starts from the floor 12m in from touch.
7)Ban the up 'n' under for the fullback. Still have cross-field kicks, grubbers and chip kicks.
8)Reduce interchanges to 8.
9)Get rid of conversions.
10)Ban the outside of the shoulder barge.
11)Have 22 minute quarters, with teams changing ends at each quarter.
12)Put as many 4G pitches down as possible. Starting at Brookvale.

These changes would help the referees greatly, as I said the game is too fast in England, it's messy so much of the time. It would also help countries who can't afford two refs on the park also. Though I would still gave 2 refs if possible so one can referee the ruck area closely, obviously to make sure people don't walk off the mark and the markers are square.

Why not have the NRL speed the game up?

All of that will apply to the NRL as well... can you see that happening... no way.

One of the beauties of sport is that different styles and tactics bring contrast into the game.

The English game being quicker needs to find ways to get around teh slower wrestlig style of the Aussies or Kiwis.... that is the beauty of sport.

You talk about boring.... yes lets make everyone do the same thing and look the same and play the same and tackle the same etc....

Booooooooorrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnngggggggggg.

 

[southwalesrabbitoh]

I understand Druzik, but the NRL did have a quicker play-the-ball in the late 90's, and it was almost constant acting-half running like it is in SL now, and the NRL is better now as teams have to put on more passing plays and chip kicks to score.

James Roby being the top metre maker in SL is just wrong, Saints score loads from a quick play-the-ball and run from acting-half. That's not what I want to see.

If you brought in my suggestion you would still have differences in attacking styles, you would have the current Canterbury style and Melbourne style for starters, and I'm sure coaches would come up with other moves.

NFL teams vary in styles, and they have a longer break between plays than what I'm suggesting. I love the grind in Rugby League, the back and forth sets between the two 20 metre lines, waiting to see who loses patience or composure first. Or that surprise passing play from inside your own half, or maybe a chip kick.

IMO it would force to bring more variety to SL, making it more interesting and compelling, than the same old running from acting-half and one out plays that English teams rely on. I have patience, I used to watch Test Match cricket all day, yeah, see every ball bowled. I've watched hours of the NFL, I can stay on the sofa for hours watching sport, and I'd love to see the RLIF bring these regulations in.

But I'll say it again, this will stop the wrestling at the ruck, which almost everyone is complaining about, if these laws were brought in no Rugby League team would then employ a wrestling coach, which has to be a good thing, right?

 

[druzik]

I understand Druzik, but the NRL did have a quicker play-the-ball in the late 90's, and it was almost constant acting-half running like it is in SL now, and the NRL is better now as teams have to put on more passing plays and chip kicks to score.

James Roby being the top metre maker in SL is just wrong, Saints score loads from a quick play-the-ball and run from acting-half. That's not what I want to see.

If you brought in my suggestion you would still have differences in attacking styles, you would have the current Canterbury style and Melbourne style for starters, and I'm sure coaches would come up with other moves.

NFL teams vary in styles, and they have a longer break between plays than what I'm suggesting. I love the grind in Rugby League, the back and forth sets between the two 20 metre lines, waiting to see who loses patience or composure first. Or that surprise passing play from inside your own half, or maybe a chip kick.

IMO it would force to bring more variety to SL, making it more interesting and compelling, than the same old running from acting-half and one out plays that English teams rely on. I have patience, I used to watch Test Match cricket all day, yeah, see every ball bowled. I've watched hours of the NFL, I can stay on the sofa for hours watching sport, and I'd love to see the RLIF bring these regulations in.

But I'll say it again, this will stop the wrestling at the ruck, which almost everyone is complaining about, if these laws were brought in no Rugby League team would then employ a wrestling coach, which has to be a good thing, right?

You essentially will be playing NFL with what you want to do... we have one NFL that is enough.

I completely disagree. I have no issue with the wrestling. Let them wrestle to slow the PTB, let the English french and who ever try and get up quick and get on with it.

That is the difference in play. NFL has the same style of play, its who can execute it better that wins.

Rugby League needs to be about the teams being able to use their best abilities and the way they play to beat the opposition.

Rugby League, is like a science experiment, you have data that the theory needs to fit to, not fit data to the theory... i.e. don't go round artificially changing things just to make them fit what you want.

Plus, last I looked Leeds Rhinos from the SUPER LEAGUE were World Club Champions, and quite convincingly 2012.

 

[southwalesrabbitoh]

Daniel please don't mention the WCC, played well before the NRL begins in awful conditions on the home ground of Leeds. Leeds wouldn't have got into the NRL's top 8 this year IMO, the Broncos and Sharks would beat them.

Oh come on, it wouldn't be anything like the NFL, there wouldn't be big gaps between each play, and even now in Rugby League, generally speaking all the teams have the same moves; and it's the one who executes them best who will end up winning the match. It's not just me who wants to see the same referee interpretations in SL as in the NRL, loads do.

But there are different offensive styles in the NFL, heard of the West Coast Offence?

 

[umina panther]

You've gone too far this time, this doesn't resemble the topball we all know and love. These rule changes would take the apex out of the game

 

[southwalesrabbitoh]

Panther, a NSWelshman on a Pommie forum has come up with the term pivot for the No.9, an excellent suggestion, don't you think?

And would people stop calling them props, they're front-rowers.

 

[Springs]

Pivot is an awful term for hooker. It's always been used to describe fly half in Union and occasionally five-eighth in league. It's a stupid suggestion, like all of yours.

 

[RedVee]

And a lot of us would prefer the NRL refereeing was more like the ESL.

 

[southwalesrabbitoh]

Lol, you obviously haven't watched much SL. Don't you want to get rid of the wrestling coaches from RL?

 

[druzik]

Daniel please don't mention the WCC, played well before the NRL begins in awful conditions on the home ground of Leeds. Leeds wouldn't have got into the NRL's top 8 this year IMO, the Broncos and Sharks would beat them.

Wha wha wha my chillies too hot ... It would be a great macth up to see if they would.

Oh come on, it wouldn't be anything like the NFL, there wouldn't be big gaps between each play,

course it would... NFL in the old days never had the big gaps between the play... but now it has grown to be like that... it will happen to the sport if you have that. One of the beauties of Rugby League is if a team can get a quick PTB off and catch the defence off side they can gain some real momentum. It can be a real game changer from one penalty. With what you suggest this would kill any chance of than and any momentum team get... in fact they would build no momentum... Defensive lines will have time to set them selves and really pummel the defence. the extra 2 meters only gives that defensive line more time to make them selves impenetrable no matter how much the offense passes.

and even now in Rugby League, generally speaking all the teams have the same moves; and it's the one who executes them best who will end up winning the match.

In Australia yes, because the referees are instructed to referee a certain way... pressure comes from the media and commentators for referees to ref a certain way, its happened in Australia and in England alike, the way the refs are instructed to referee is different and that what makes it so difficult between nations.

You can have different styles of play and each can have an equal chance of winning if there is a consistent way referees control the game. They should stick to the laws and not have them changed every year

It's not just me who wants to see the same referee interpretations in SL as in the NRL, loads do.

Then lets stop having the NRL keep f**king around with the rules each year and doing their own thing! Lets get the RLIF to finally have the schtick to put their foot down, say this is the way the game will be reffed across the board, no ifs and no buts, have everyone playing to the same consistent.

You want to f**k with the rules again and that is the problem with all this... lets bloody leave them alone for 10 years and let teams and nations actually be able to play to them instead of always playing catch up footy to the rules.

The NRL is the problem here, not Super League. The NRL goers off and does it won thing without any regard for anyone else or the greater good of the game. Hell even the NSW/QLD cups and all other competitions don;t play by the same rules as the NRL. That is the joke. Despite the $1b contract, the NRL is still a very amateurish sport in the greater scheme of things and is spoiled and arrogant.

But there are different offensive styles in the NFL, heard of the West Coast Offence?

The WCO is a tactic and not a style.

If anything, England's problem is in its coaching and not its players or style, they need a coach that will get the best out of the players and utilise the abilities of players and use the best players available.

If Wayne Bennett was to go to England and coach them, he would take them to a world cup win like he did with the Kiwis. That's is what they needs, not to wholesale change the sport or their way of playing to make it look like Australia. Bollocks to that.

 

[LeedsStorm]

Daniel please don't mention the WCC, played well before the NRL begins in awful conditions on the home ground of Leeds. Leeds wouldn't have got into the NRL's top 8 this year IMO, the Broncos and Sharks would beat them.

There are millions of elderly pensioners and young children in England and the rest of Europe, who deal with those "awful" conditions annually, without complaint.

So basically, are you saying that Manly lost to Leeds because they aren't as tough as small children and OAPs?

 

[southwalesrabbitoh]

Druzik,

Regarding the NRL and their law changes, you're going off the point, I'mm go on about that on another thread.

OK The WCO is a tactic fine, teams would use different offensive tactics in rugby league if the laws were changed to what I've described. Coaches usually think about football 24/7, they'll coime up with a few things whatever the laws.

The reason why English team rely on running out of acting-half is because they aren't confident they can score through passing plays, whereas most NRL teams think they can through passing and good kicking. The kicking game of most SL teams is awful. Because most of the best sportmen don't play rugby league.

I'm just watching the Featherstone v Sheffield G.Final now, and they really could do with a 12m gap and having to wait for the defensive line to set before playing the ball. It would also cut out a lot of the dangerous second or third man in "tackles".

This would help the smaller nations too, as they're not as good as wrestling, that's all they'll need to do is tackle, which is what the game was about, not wrestling.

Laws have to change to negate negative coaching tactics, we haven't really had a major law change since 1906, when play-the-ball was introduced.

 

[druzik]

Druzik,

Regarding the NRL and their law changes, you're going off the point, I'mm go on about that on another thread.

Completely relevant ... you want to change the laws fo the sport, the NRL does this a lot and its confusing the game ... the same as you want to do. Leave the laws alone. Let them play out for 10 years at least get some statistical backing before you need to do anything drastic.

OK The WCO is a tactic fine, teams would use different offensive tactics in rugby league if the laws were changed to what I've described. Coaches usually think about football 24/7, they'll coime up with a few things whatever the laws.

So why change them? I reiterate... leave the laws alone. The issue is that they are getting changed all the time and its hard for teams to adapt.

The reason why English team rely on running out of acting-half is because they aren't confident they can score through passing plays, whereas most NRL teams think they can through passing and good kicking. The kicking game of most SL teams is awful. Because most of the best sportmen don't play rugby league.

This is a coaching problem... not a problem with the laws of the game. The teams/players/coaches need to get the confidence to play from passing plays.

I'm just watching the Featherstone v Sheffield G.Final now, and they really could do with a 12m gap and having to wait for the defensive line to set before playing the ball. It would also cut out a lot of the dangerous second or third man in "tackles".

... and some say that the 10m is too much and it should go back to 5m! Rugby League is about defence and attack having to figure out a way to break that defence... 12m will only make things too lopsided towqards attack and then the game will get boring with attack scoring off nearly every play.... LEAVE THINGS ALONE!

This would help the smaller nations too, as they're not as good as wrestling, that's all they'll need to do is tackle, which is what the game was about, not wrestling.

Forget about the wrestling... you are obsessing too much over it. Let the smaller nations and nations that are developing figure out their own ways and tactics to play and beat teams. same goes for the established nations.

You poms seem to love focusing on everyone and everything else except yourselves and how to come up with a way to win. The Aussies like to wrestle, great, the English done, great as well, the french like to play a bit more of a random suicidal style... great as well... execute well, be consistent and don't get worried about everything else... and you will win more than the odd game here and there.

Laws have to change to negate negative coaching tactics, we haven't really had a major law change since 1906, when play-the-ball was introduced.

WTF! Did you just say that????!!!!
What going from unlimited to limited tackles wasn't a major change to the game?
Moving the defensive line from 5 m to 10 m wasn't a major change?
Making scrums less competitive wasn't a major change?
Changing tries from 3 points to 4 points wasn't a major change?
The 4/20
Taking the ball to the 20 if diffusing in your own in-goal a high ball...

Heaps and heaps of changes have happened... but they happened not year by year but gradually over time when the evidence was showed it was required.... in THIS CASE it is not there. In one foul swoop of the hand you essentially are completely changing the sport, it would not be Rugby League any more.

 

[southwalesrabbitoh]

I'm not a Pommie.

Getting rid of the unlimited tackle rule and those messy messy scrums? They were an obvious thing to do, I bet in 20 to 30 years time we'll have defensive lines set before you can play-the-ball. So why not bring them in now. I'll be 68 yrs old in 30 years time!!! As I've got Haemochromatosis, my liver probably won't get me there.

My ideas are probably governed by the fact I have a genetic disorder, and had a lung tumour removed a few years ago, and my dad died of cancer when he was 38, so I know I'm not indestructable and know I probably won't live as long as most, which is why I want things that will almost certainly come in in the furture to come in now so I can see it and enjoy it.

Anyway, emerging nations would as you have pointed out, have more of a chance of scoring touchdowns, but also be able to keep the top rated countries from scoring lots of TD's late in the game, we often see teams stretching out at the end, well it doesn't make the scoreboard look good, but if you found a way of managing the attack when the average teams are fatigued then they can feel as if they're in the game for the 88 minutes. Also have more opportunities for adverts which Channel 9 and Fox want. Come on Daniel, realistically speaking the NRL are the RLIF, same as the NFL are in Football, Phil Gould called English RL a bunch of amateurs, which they basically are. I obviously wouldn't agree that the ARLC are a bunch of amateurs.

And of course it would still be rugby league, Bill Fallowfield for years tried to bring back the rugby union ruck. That would then not make it rugby league, it's all about the ruck.

 

[Arucard]

Haha. Dru, come on man. I can't believe people still reply to rubbish like this.
I just recently saw an episode of south park where they played a game
Called sarcastaball or something. I swear I thought they were playing topball
or some other crazy sport this guy has invented.