Nathan Tinkler relinquishes ownership of the Newcastle Knights

[Ronnie Dobbs]

It's amazing how many experts in finance and the production of coal we have on these forums

I don't think you need to be an expert to notice the bleeding obvious.

You can sure ignore it and go into denial though.

 

[Sydney Knight]

Feel free to quote me and mock me when both Tinkler and the knights go under

 

[Ronnie Dobbs]

Feel free to quote me and mock me when both Tinkler and the knights go under

The Knights won't go under. They survived 24 seasons without a cent to their name.

They're in better shape now than before. Their owner isn't in a position to pay them what's in the contract though.

They'll look to activate that guarantee before it halves for sure. Why else would they be stalling for two months?

Tinkler is done.

 

[betcats]

Im no expert but anyone can see Tinkler is on the edge. With Wayne Bennet being contracted to HSG how would it his role as coach be effected(if at all) if Tinkler goes bankrupt in the next few days?

 

[Fire]

Don't quote me, but Wayne may have to take a pay cut.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

There is little doubt the days of Hunter Sports Group owning the Knights are numbered. The big question is what happens next and whether the club will be left with a financial hole to fill when he pulls the pin. The club owes the govt rent for the stadium and God knows if and when that money will be paid by HSG. If the club is left with some of his debts it could be in real trouble, even if a new buyer is found.

 

[woodyk2]

How could Knights CEO have ''limited'' knowledge of all this?

 

[Ronnie Dobbs]

Don't quote me, but Wayne may have to take a pay cut.

I would very much assume that to be the case, but he'll take it for sure.

he didn't go there for the money remember.

Its all about the challenge :lol:

 

[betcats]

If HSG goes under, wouldnt that effectively make him a free agent?

 

[Fire]

I would very much assume that to be the case, but he'll take it for sure.

he didn't go there for the money remember.

Its all about the challenge :lol:

Very true Ronnie. He's certainly got his "challenge" now lol

 

[WayneBennett]

I would very much assume that to be the case, but he'll take it for sure.

he didn't go there for the money remember.

Its all about the challenge :lol:

 

[Rosetta]

His lenders will be the one forcing the sale. No gain for them forcing the sale or taking possession of such a large parcel of shares where he has been so dominant in creating the value within the company. Everyone will lose that way - even the lender...

The creditors could lose a whole lot more if they don't make a move though, it's a "cutting their losses" whilst they can type scenario.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/busines...tinkler-taxbre8am05o-20121123,0,1340261.story
The value of Tinkler's holding in Whitehaven has shrunk below A$600 million from A$1.1 billion at its peak as Chinese demand for coal cooled.

Sources previously told Reuters the stake is heavily leveraged. His main backer, U.S. hedge fund manager Farallon Capital Management LLC's asset manager Noonday, has been looking at options including pressing for the sale of shares or converting some of the loans into equity.

"Additional pressure from entities including the Australian Taxation Office puts pressure on Noonday and Farallon to do something about Tinkler's stake," said Matthew Trivett, a coal and specialty metals analyst at Patersons Securities.

Noonday and Farallon could call in the loans to ensure the transfer of ownership of the stake before other creditors begin chasing the stake, Trivett said.

They would likely take a hit, but might decide to "book the loss to take the assets away from Tinkler," Trivett said.

He also has the issue of cash flow, where is he getting cash flow from? Considering his debt from October to December this year has increased another ~$70 million it would indicate via more loans - it's madness.

 

[Wato]

There is little doubt the days of Hunter Sports Group owning the Knights are numbered. The big question is what happens next and whether the club will be left with a financial hole to fill when he pulls the pin. The club owes the govt rent for the stadium and God knows if and when that money will be paid by HSG. If the club is left with some of his debts it could be in real trouble, even if a new buyer is found.

I am pretty sure the stadium is in HSGs name in order for both the Jets and Knights to play there. Losing Tinkler would be a blow but it would also mean company's like Coal and Allied who left because of Tinkler may be keen to return at some point. The club would probably take a blow financially for the first 12 months after Tinks goes but would they be doing any worse in that then some of the struggling clubs in Sydney or the Gold Coast. With the money in the bank the Knights look strong for the long term, the Jets on the other hand are probably facing a death sentence.

 

[Alex28]

I wouldn't be too worried about what companies go under until anything related to either the Whitehaven shareholding or the football club is put into receivership. Stuff like the racehorses and the plane are disposable assets that he's prepared to lose if he has to. Whitehaven is his big asset - he can't afford to lose it or he has nothing. He could afford to burn HSG if he needed to - and we might be better off without him - but he has helped us far more than he has hindered is and it would be a shame for him not to see it through.

 

[Sydney Knight]

Big day for whc up 2.67%

 

[Matchball]

Only skyrocketing coal prices can save him.
Cant see it happening though because it needs to happen now.

 

[Matchball]

I wouldn't be too worried about what companies go under until anything related to either the Whitehaven shareholding or the football club is put into receivership. Stuff like the racehorses and the plane are disposable assets that he's prepared to lose if he has to. Whitehaven is his big asset - he can't afford to lose it or he has nothing. He could afford to burn HSG if he needed to - and we might be better off without him - but he has helped us far more than he has hindered is and it would be a shame for him not to see it through.

He borrowed heavily against his whitehaven stake when it was valued over a billion dollars.
Coal prices saw it drop to under 550 million worth of stock but had borrowed 700 million to fund the other bullshit. Horses etc.

He is in the red bigtime and only a coal boom can save him now.

 

[Alex28]

If it was as bad as you suggest it is he would have had a margin call by now. The reality is nobody is lending too highly against a speculative mining company - we aren't talking BHP or Rio here. Would have been lucky to be a 40% lending margin and given the price has halved and there hasn't been a margin call I'd say I'm closeto the mark.

I call bullshit on your figures. Nobody is letting him go $150 Million unsecured against shares.

 

[Matchball]

If it was as bad as you suggest it is he would have had a margin call by now. The reality is nobody is lending too highly against a speculative mining company - we aren't talking BHP or Rio here. Would have been lucky to be a 40% lending margin and given the price has halved and there hasn't been a margin call I'd say I'm closeto the mark.

I call bullshit on your figures. Nobody is letting him go $150 Million unsecured against shares.

Do some research for yourself.
Its all online if you care to use google and be unbiased.

 

[Sydney Knight]

Outside of whitehaven these are all unlisted private companies so you won't find anyyhing on Google other than media estimates/guesses.