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Nathan Tinkler relinquishes ownership of the Newcastle Knights

Matchball

Bench
Messages
2,971
Where did the 300 million come from to start the horse stable? Thin air?
Where did the money come from for the knights, jets and the rest of the shit?

All leveraged against his whitehaven stake.
Gerry Harvey cant save him this time and probably wont see his loan repayed.
 
Messages
17,032
If it was as bad as you suggest it is he would have had a margin call by now. The reality is nobody is lending too highly against a speculative mining company - we aren't talking BHP or Rio here. Would have been lucky to be a 40% lending margin and given the price has halved and there hasn't been a margin call I'd say I'm closeto the mark.

I call bullshit on your figures. Nobody is letting him go $150 Million unsecured against shares.


Yeah, 40% is all financial institutions will take on WHC.
 

Alex28

Coach
Messages
12,271
The horse stud came from when he sold Macarthur Coal shares mate - before Aston bought Maules Creek and then merged with Whitehaven.

He battled to come up with the cash for the Knights granted.
 

Ulysseus

Bench
Messages
3,610
It's amazing how many experts in finance and the production of coal we have on these forums

I actually am an expert on the production of coal which allows me to place the "shit" stamp on Maules Creek.
About the only thing going for it is that its metallurgical coal and that's worth substantially more than thermal - but in such a small deposit, and in the area its located containing what I would describe as "adverse" geomorphology there's a fair chance a lot of its going to be powdered shit.

Sorry, but if I want good met coal I'll call QLD.

I also still have doubts over the bank guarantee - as stated before they usually exist to clear a debt in the event of a venture or business going wrong where one party is in debt to another - not because someone f**ked up completely.
It is not the promissory note to end all troubles and most probably will not be honored in that manner.
Unless there's 20 million in a frozen account with conditions I'd be making serious legal inquiry as to its effectiveness should it need to be invoked.............. which may be soon.
 
Messages
3,000
Bank guarantee is a pretty simple concept that has been explained numerous times here.

It is a) secured against either an asset (like a property) or a term deposit b) it is immune from creditors

Tinkler continues to get income from the asset however if its called in the bank takes the asset and sends a cheque to the knights. If the guarantee is secured against a property
Then the property Will be worth well over $20m as with a normal home loan to allow for a fall in value.
 

Alex28

Coach
Messages
12,271
That isn't true at all Ulysses - a Bank Guarantee can be for any purpose. It is essentially a performance guarantee which they can call upon if they do not perform. It doesn't matter whether there is $20 Million in the bank or not - the Bank MUST pay cash on demand if the Knights Members Club enforces it. It is then up to the Bank to get the cash from Tinky - not the Knights problem.

You might be a coal expert, but leave the finance to others...
 

Loudstrat

Coach
Messages
15,224
Im neither an expert on coal OR finances, but its plain simple and bleeding obvious that Tinkler is on his way to being stripped naked and left in a gutter near a soup kitchen in Cardiff very quickly - and anyone linked to him has as much chance of seeing a 100% return AT CALL on their investment as Josef Fritzl has of winning Father Of The Year.
 

Ronnie Dobbs

Coach
Messages
17,758
Im neither an expert on coal OR finances, but its plain simple and bleeding obvious that Tinkler is on his way to being stripped naked and left in a gutter near a soup kitchen in Cardiff very quickly - and anyone linked to him has as much chance of seeing a 100% return AT CALL on their investment as Josef Fritzl has of winning Father Of The Year.

:lol:
 
Messages
14,937
Members could get Knights plus $20m if HSG defaults Save By ROBERT DILLON Dec. 10, 2012, 10:30 p.m.
MONITORING: Nick Dan
HUNTER Sports Group could be forced to relinquish control of the Newcastle Knights within weeks if they are unable to honour a fundamental prerequisite of Nathan Tinkler’s takeover deal by Saturday.


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Under the terms and conditions of Tinkler’s privatisation agreement, signed on August1 last year, HSG were obliged to provide the Knights Members Club board with an annual audit to confirm all financial stipulations were being honoured. That audit is due by Saturday, but HSG have indicated they might be unable to comply.

They have asked the Members Club board for a two-month extension, until February 15, but that request is likely to be denied unless HSG agree to extend a $20million bank guarantee until March.

The $20million surety – which underpinned Tinkler’s entire takeover sales pitch – reverts to $10.3million on January 1. Hence the Members Club board are reluctant to grant HSG more time to complete the audit, unless the bank guarantee time frame is adjusted accordingly.

If HSG are unable to deliver the audit or alternatively unable to extend the bank guarantee, the Members Club board have the capacity to take measures to eventually usurp control of the club, thereby terminating Tinkler’s tumultuous tenure.

Were HSG to default on Saturday, effectively reneging on the privatisation contract, informed sources have explained to the Newcastle Herald the board’s first step would be to approach the bank that holds the guarantee with a formal claim to access the $20million.

That could happen as early as next week.

Without audited figures, the board would estimate a worst-case shortfall and withdraw that amount on behalf of the club.

HSG would then have 20 business days to replenish, or top up, the bank guarantee.

If HSG failed to do so, the Members Club board would then be entitled to activate another process that would ultimately remove HSG as the controlling body.

Whatever was left of the bank guarantee would then become available to the club.

If that chain of events were to align, one source told the Herald that HSG could be unseated by mid-January, barring legal challenges.

HSG could delay that, and buy time, by taking out injunctions.

Alternatively they could provide a complying audit by Saturday – highly unlikely, given the auditors were due to start yesterday and may need several weeks – or agree to extend the bank guarantee.

But it remains to be seen if they can find any bank willing to offer such a guarantee, given Tinkler’s apparently precarious financial position.

When Tinkler bought the Knights last year, it took months for HSG to source a bank willing to provide a guarantee.

The annual audit was included as a key component in the deed of sale to enable the Members Club board to determine if HSG has upheld promises to underwrite $10million in sponsorship, $2.5million in junior development, $300,000 for the Newcastle Rugby League and provide ‘‘adequate working capital’’.

The Herald left messages with HSG chief executive Troy Palmer and Knights chief executive Matt Gidley yesterday but received no reply. A club spokesperson said they had ‘‘nothing more to add from our end’’.

Knights Members Club chairman Nick Dan said the directors would hold crisis talks with Gidley tonight, but Palmer would not be present.

Asked if he felt the two parties could reach a compromise, Dan replied: ‘‘We’ll have to look at some things we haven’t looked at before.’’

The situation is being monitored by the NRL.

‘‘We have been given written assurances from the Hunter Sports Group that they are financially sound,’’ NRL chief executive Shane Mattiske said yesterday.

‘‘As you are aware, there is a bank guarantee in place and there are a number of safeguards that the members have in relation to the ownership of the Knights.


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‘‘We are certainly watching matters closely, including the progress of the audit.

‘‘Certainly we hope the matters will be resolved amicably.’’

HSG has attracted mounting scrutiny over its tardy payment of creditors, including the State Government, which has launched legal action to recover almost $600,000 in overdue stadium hire fees.

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/1177734/members-could-get-knights-plus-20m-if-hsg-defaults/?cs=311
 

sharko

Juniors
Messages
911
Having moved and taken out residence in Singapore, Tinkler has considerable protections under Singaporean law, he has moved considerable cash assets into Singapore jurisdiction and these also have the protectopn of Singaporean law.
It will not be easy and may prove quite impossible to recover these assets from Tinkler personally.
When the banks and others who are Tinklers creditors come calling there may be nothing in the pot in Australia and they will all have to take a hair cut.
It has happened to many businesses and individuals over the years and will always happens.
 

bazza

Immortal
Messages
32,629
The Tax Office has moved to wind up the Newcastle Knights and the Newcastle Jets, along with their parent company the Hunter Sports Group, over unpaid debts of some $2.7 million, as owner Nathan Tinkler's debt problems continue to mount.
Documents filed on Wednesday in the Federal Court in Sydney show the Deputy Commissioner of Taxation is applying for the wind-up of Hunter Sports Group (owing $184,258), Newcastle Jets Pty Ltd (owing $1.063 million) and Newcastle Knights Pty Ltd (owing $1.424 million).
The applications have been set down for hearing on February 20.
 

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