Triple H

[Big Pete]

It's a name that keeps popping up on these boards, so let's discuss the Cerebral Assassin.

What are your thoughts on his career? Is he the worst thing to happen to wrestling or is he really that damn good?

GO.

 

[Misanthrope]

He's definitely not as good as he perceives himself to be (or wants us to perceive him). Great worker, cuts a good promo, but is probably held back by his own ego more than anything.

Between Vince's refusal to acknowledge that something great can be created independently of him and Triple H's weird paranoia about people 'forgetting' him - the company is at something of an all time creative lull. The Shield are a shining light and we might see similar good things come out of the Wyatt Clan's promotion, but the bogging down of the midcard, the death of tag team wrestling, and the company's struggle to create and maintain top level stars is a worry that rests largely on the shoulders of Triple H and his daddy.

It was illustrated wonderfully last week on Raw. New guy debuts, Triple H verbally buries him, but we get a glimmer of hope that he'll sell his beating at Lesnar's hands by putting the new guy over. Instead, Axel gets in next to no offense and the match is called off. They don't even declare Curtis Axel the winner!

Cena at least had the decency to be counted out (although even he no sold the loss by clapping sarcastically and smiling).

The sad thing is, Triple H clearly has a great head for the business. He's widely been credited for last year's brief resurrection of the tag division. Vince apparently put the kibosh on that because... well... who the f**k knows?

If Triple H could step back from the business and let the spotlight fade off him, he'd be a much better guy to run the company than Vince. He's clearly a little more accepting of things and has an old school mindset - but that's always going to be clouded by his ego as long as he sees himself as a competitor on the roster.

Immense respect for him as a performer in his own right and for some of his ideas, but the politics taint everything he touches.

 

[Eelementary]

One of my all-time favourite wrestlers, Triple H polarises people's opinions. He's a very good worker, more than adequate on the mic and was able to work both in serious angles (as the Cerebral Assassin and leader of Evolution) and in comedic ones (DX).

His biggest problem is his ego; he thinks he's bigger than the business itself at times, and he thinks he's better than he is. He tends to push himself above other superstars to get what he wants, and rubs people the wrong way.

But he did pay his dues - he wrestled in pig shit and took opportunities afforded to him with both hands and took it all the way to the top.

In my opinion, backstage politics aside, he is one of the all-time greats.

 

[Sanchez]

He's definitely not as good as he perceives himself to be (or wants us to perceive him). Great worker, cuts a good promo, but is probably held back by his own ego more than anything.

Between Vince's refusal to acknowledge that something great can be created independently of him and Triple H's weird paranoia about people 'forgetting' him - the company is at something of an all time creative lull. The Shield are a shining light and we might see similar good things come out of the Wyatt Clan's promotion, but the bogging down of the midcard, the death of tag team wrestling, and the company's struggle to create and maintain top level stars is a worry that rests largely on the shoulders of Triple H and his daddy.

It was illustrated wonderfully last week on Raw. New guy debuts, Triple H verbally buries him, but we get a glimmer of hope that he'll sell his beating at Lesnar's hands by putting the new guy over. Instead, Axel gets in next to no offense and the match is called off. They don't even declare Curtis Axel the winner!

Cena at least had the decency to be counted out (although even he no sold the loss by clapping sarcastically and smiling).

The sad thing is, Triple H clearly has a great head for the business. He's widely been credited for last year's brief resurrection of the tag division. Vince apparently put the kibosh on that because... well... who the f**k knows?

If Triple H could step back from the business and let the spotlight fade off him, he'd be a much better guy to run the company than Vince. He's clearly a little more accepting of things and has an old school mindset - but that's always going to be clouded by his ego as long as he sees himself as a competitor on the roster.

Immense respect for him as a performer in his own right and for some of his ideas, but the politics taint everything he touches.

On WWE.com they acknowledged Axel as the winner

 

[Misanthrope]

On WWE.com they acknowledged Axel as the winner

Too bad they didn't do it on TV where 99% of the WWE's audience would have seen it.

 

[Ridders]

Loved him when I was kid. My opinions of him did temper a bit as I grew older and understood more about the backroom politicking.

Awesome heel. Never really liked him as a face, although maybe that was because he was so damn good as the bad guy.

Just my personal opinion by I think he gave the WHC belt alot of gravitas after the brand split, to the point where I valued it above the WWE belt for a long time. Even now days, when the WHC belt has been relegated to what the IC and US belts used to be, I still hold it in high regard. Alot of that has to do with HHH.

 

[Manurewa_Marlins]

Great worker with a head for the business. An even bigger head for himself.

Bret Hart was way off when saying Triple H hasnt had any good matches, shit I'd go as far as saying, as far as big blow offs, he's had more than Hart himself.

The street fight at Royal Rumble 2000 is one of my favourite matches of all time.

 

[pennywisealfie]

HHH is pretty cool. I've read and seen heaps of interviews with wrestlers who say all the shit about him holding back wrestlers is bullshit and I believe that opinion.

 

[Misanthrope]

HHH is pretty cool. I've read and seen heaps of interviews with wrestlers who say all the shit about him holding back wrestlers is bullshit and I believe that opinion.

I'm not sure you could argue he doesn't hold workers back. Maybe not for petty reasons, but he certainly squashes workers who he are in programs with him. Booker T, Scott Steiner, Test. Hell, he did nothing to elevate Curtis Axel two weeks ago and really did nothing to elevate or legitimize Lesnar either.

 

[Valheru]

I'm not sure you could argue he doesn't hold workers back. Maybe not for petty reasons, but he certainly squashes workers who he are in programs with him. Booker T, Scott Steiner, Test. Hell, he did nothing to elevate Curtis Axel two weeks ago and really did nothing to elevate or legitimize Lesnar either.

Booker Steiner and test didn't deserve to be put over and you can add Kane to that list. RVD is an example of one guy he should of put over.

People like to forget that he did put over and help made stars of the likes of batista Orton and cena.

He is just an easy target for the whiners out there because he is in a position of power. His work speaks for itself

 

[Misanthrope]

People like to forget that he did put over and help made stars of the likes of batista Orton and cena.

Two of those are his friends. Not really surprising.

Booker T should have gone over. He was popular and the whole feud was built towards him getting revenge.

He's not a top ten or even twenty top wrestlers of all time guy, and that kills him.

 

[Big Pete]

Some great reads in here.

When I was really passionate about wrestling - I hated HHH. For me, he was the perfect heel. He had all the right ingredients to be champion without being overly fantastic and he clearly had his flaws which were easy to pick at. For instance, ever noticed HHH needs the help of others to get over on the microphone? Shawn Michaels, Road Dogg, Stephanie McMahon, Ric Flair etc.

That heat amplified around the Ruthless Aggression era but over time it's dulled and while there are moments where he'll do something that rubs me the wrong way, in an industry filled with absolute scum, I feel like HHH ends up fairly even.

I prefer his role behind the scenes where he's definitely won some important victories. Patching things up between Vince and Bruno is clearly his best achievement. It righted a wrong that existed way too long and reunited Bruno to a product he helped establish as the best promotion in the States. I also like his focus in talent development, completely overhauling the system and ensuring that guys are called up when they're ready. Never before has the WWE been so keen on Independant talent and seeing the likes of Punk, Danielson, Black, Moxley and to an extent Cesaro receive good spots on the card while the likes of Hero, Generico, Callihan, Del Soy, PAC and Brodie Lee wait for their opportunity.

Even the signings of Mistico and Kong were apparently his initiatives. It's just unfortunate it didn't work out.

 

[Valheru]

He's not a top ten or even twenty top wrestlers of all time guy, and that kills him.

Disagree.

When you talk GOAT perception in reality and the only real measure is popular opinion. I think most people would have him in the top 10, certainly top 20.

 

[Misanthrope]

I think Triple H will be a fantastic runner of the company when he does get the gig. Just as long as he stops putting himself into the ring and putting himself over.

At least Vince (usually) got his ass kicked.

 

[Big Pete]

In fairness, Vince's background was as a commentator, interviewer and owner of the promotion. Of course HHH is going to be a little bit more menacing.

I actually don't mind it if the GM is an ass kicker. What I do mind is the shenanigans he pulled around the Summer of Punk. That was BS.

GOAT? In just WWE terms or all of Pro Wrestling?

In the scheme of things, I honestly think HHH would be lucky to make Top 50 let alone 20 or 10.

 

[Misanthrope]

In the scheme of things, I honestly think HHH would be lucky to make Top 50 let alone 20 or 10.

Mark it down on your calendar, folks! Big Pete and Misanthrope agree on something!

 

[Big Pete]

3/6/13 was a righteous day to behold.

Just so it doesn't seem like I'm blowing smoke here when I'm referring to the Top 50 I'm not thinking of guys like Bruno, Hogan, Austin, Rock, Cena, Taker etc.

I'm referring to the likes of Andre, Thesz, The Gotch Brothers, Hackenshmidt, Kiniski, El Santo, Rikidozan, Blassie etc. that list could easily hit around 40 without HHH's name appearing.

He's still a very good at times great talent and his run in 2000 deserves a ton of accolades but in the annals of history the biggest compliment you can make is that his name belongs with his heroes, not over them.

 

[Valheru]

3/6/13 was a righteous day to behold.

Just so it doesn't seem like I'm blowing smoke here when I'm referring to the Top 50 I'm not thinking of guys like Bruno, Hogan, Austin, Rock, Cena, Taker etc.

I'm referring to the likes of Andre, Thesz, The Gotch Brothers, Hackenshmidt, Kiniski, El Santo, Rikidozan, Blassie etc. that list could easily hit around 40 without HHH's name appearing.

He's still a very good at times great talent and his run in 2000 deserves a ton of accolades but in the annals of history the biggest compliment you can make is that his name belongs with his heroes, not over them.

Fair point and that's why I stress popular opinion in GOAT discussions. The average Joe would not have seen those types of workers let alone Japanese workers etc. Most people's lists would be a whose who of workers from wwe/f from the 80's onwards with a little bit of wcw thrown in.

 

[Big Pete]

Yeah sorry Valheru, I was making light of Mis' point and used your GOAT tag to make mine.

I'm speaking purely from my own perspective. I don't care what the unwashed masses think - I do care what credible wrestling sources like Meltzer do though.

Oh and of course all the fine people here on LU. *cheap pop*

 

[Valheru]

All good Pete.

Out of interest what is your top 10 if all time? Do any wwf guys cut it for you?