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Third Party Payments ~ a crock or what!?

Seoul Dragon

Juniors
Messages
90
Maybe I don't understand TPPs and I am happy to be educated, but it seems like TPPs are an unrestricted black hole undermining the Cap.

Sure, clubs aren't supposed to be involved, but "introductions" to benefactors would be simple for clubs to organize and when you have a well connected board it all becomes too easy and the cap as a tool for leveling the talent playing field just fades away.....

Go to a Roosters game at Allianz and they parade the players and their sponsors on the big screen.

Surely we need to control TTPs and support the true intention of the cap ~~
 

Seoul Dragon

Juniors
Messages
90
They're a crock of shit but the only reason any Dragons fans are blowing up about them is because we don't have any lol

Yeah, maybe jealously.

But why aren't they managed and limited.

Hypothetically the cap could become secondary and the NRL loses control of a key lever in talent distribution .....seems like they have their eyes shut.
 

JDHD

Juniors
Messages
1,082
Yeah, maybe jealously.

But why aren't they managed and limited.

Hypothetically the cap could become secondary and the NRL loses control of a key lever in talent distribution .....seems like they have their eyes shut.
Your initial post was on the money with how they work. They're supposed to be at arms length but anyone with a brain stem can tell that a CEO with connections could hook some players up with TPPs that he couldn't otherwise afford. The only reason the Storm got caught was because an assistant gave Ian Schubert the secret files without realising what they were after a whistleblower clued him in. The Eels only got caught because they were discussing it in the board meetings that they then signed off on the minutes of and, of course, multiple whistblowers. Gross incompetency basically. The NRL have never caught a team without an informant.
 

Seoul Dragon

Juniors
Messages
90
Your initial post was on the money with how they work. They're supposed to be at arms length but anyone with a brain stem can tell that a CEO with connections could hook some players up with TPPs that he couldn't otherwise afford. The only reason the Storm got caught was because an assistant gave Ian Schubert the secret files without realising what they were after a whistleblower clued him in. The Eels only got caught because they were discussing it in the board meetings that they then signed off on the minutes of and, of course, multiple whistblowers. Gross incompetency basically. The NRL have never caught a team without an informant.

Yep, the process easily circumvented as you say, but what about the quantum?

No quantum controls?

If not whats to stop some bored billionaire tapping his petty cash and getting his PA to contact and offer the games 5 elite players $2m a season on top to come to his favourite club?

Ridiculous but possible (???).

Why not make TPPs transparent and cap them.
 

JDHD

Juniors
Messages
1,082
Yep, the process easily circumvented as you say, but what about the quantum?

No quantum controls?

If not whats to stop some bored billionaire tapping his petty cash and getting his PA to contact and offer the games 5 elite players $2m a season on top to come to his favourite club?

Ridiculous but possible (???).

Why not make TPPs transparent and cap them.

That is almost word for word exactly what every news article regarding TPPs has proposed since they were brought in.
 

JohnnoMcJohnno

Juniors
Messages
2,359
Not much you can do about it. I believe it was tested in court and found that any clampdown by the NRL on TPP's is an illegal restraint on a players rights to earn money. No diffrrent to Joe Bloggs having his day job and then delivering pizzas after work to earn more squids. Clubs are not supposed to get involved but obviously they do.
 

Seoul Dragon

Juniors
Messages
90
Thx for the education re TPPs. I have come a full circle.....

If they have been tested in court and found to be a restraint of trade it would seem as though it is open slather and to hell with the level playing field.

The question now, probably rhetorical, is why aren't the dragons up to speed in maximizing our TPP opportunities .......

Pretty clear we need a CEO, Board and Exec team who both bring and foster the business connections that will allow us to compete for the games best players~~
 

AyiosYiorgos

Coach
Messages
13,483
Maybe I don't understand TPPs and I am happy to be educated, but it seems like TPPs are an unrestricted black hole undermining the Cap.

Sure, clubs aren't supposed to be involved, but "introductions" to benefactors would be simple for clubs to organize and when you have a well connected board it all becomes too easy and the cap as a tool for leveling the talent playing field just fades away.....

Go to a Roosters game at Allianz and they parade the players and their sponsors on the big screen.

Surely we need to control TTPs and support the true intention of the cap ~~
Unlimited 3rd party deals were brought in to appease Politis, Bronco's, Dogs, they bitch and moaned until they got there own way, if the NRL had any balls they would introduce a point system for every player and clubs would have a for eg a 150 points for their 30 man squad...
 

BennyV

Referee
Messages
22,441
Yep, the process easily circumvented as you say, but what about the quantum?

No quantum controls?

If not whats to stop some bored billionaire tapping his petty cash and getting his PA to contact and offer the games 5 elite players $2m a season on top to come to his favourite club?

Ridiculous but possible (???).

Why not make TPPs transparent and cap them.
The TPP is not meant to come from any party associated with the club, it's management or its sponsors. So while said billionaire couldnt just have his assistant give them, he could donate large amounts on money to a random charity, an offset of whom may sponsor a player. Or, if you believe certain rumours, an associate of the clubs management could play a weekly game of golf against a player with a friendly $20,000 wager attached (and of course, said associated is a poor golfer).

There are minor ways to restrict that (or to mask the corruption, depending on your cynicism). Things like Market Value of players being one of them. There's also blatant perception - if you're looking for a bank robber, you immediately go to the house of the guy who's living room is filled with bank-note-filled briefcases. But ultimately, the smart clubs do it right - take enough to get a large advantage and make it seem like they are cheating, but not too much that they cant reasonably justify it.

As to the reason our club cant organise this? An ancient and inward looking management structure who's best business connection is the chip shop down the road. And I dont think we'll sign any top shelf players on the promise of extra chicken salt.
 

SBD82

Coach
Messages
16,905
Maybe I don't understand TPPs and I am happy to be educated, but it seems like TPPs are an unrestricted black hole undermining the Cap.

Sure, clubs aren't supposed to be involved, but "introductions" to benefactors would be simple for clubs to organize and when you have a well connected board it all becomes too easy and the cap as a tool for leveling the talent playing field just fades away.....

Go to a Roosters game at Allianz and they parade the players and their sponsors on the big screen.

Surely we need to control TTPs and support the true intention of the cap ~~
What seems to be forgotten is that the introduction of the salary cap wasn't about evening the comp, it was about ensuring that the poorer clubs didn't go broke trying to chase big signatures.

TPAs, when used within the guidelines, are consistent with this idea, as the money doesnt come from the club.
 

Seoul Dragon

Juniors
Messages
90
What seems to be forgotten is that the introduction of the salary cap wasn't about evening the comp, it was about ensuring that the poorer clubs didn't go broke trying to chase big signatures.

TPAs, when used within the guidelines, are consistent with this idea, as the money doesnt come from the club.

Thx SBD ~~ didnt know that.

Given that intention isnt it ironic that the so called rich clubs seem to be the ones playing the TPP game better and benefiting more than "poor clubs"
 

Seoul Dragon

Juniors
Messages
90
The TPP is not meant to come from any party associated with the club, it's management or its sponsors. So while said billionaire couldnt just have his assistant give them, he could donate large amounts on money to a random charity, an offset of whom may sponsor a player. Or, if you believe certain rumours, an associate of the clubs management could play a weekly game of golf against a player with a friendly $20,000 wager attached (and of course, said associated is a poor golfer).

There are minor ways to restrict that (or to mask the corruption, depending on your cynicism). Things like Market Value of players being one of them. There's also blatant perception - if you're looking for a bank robber, you immediately go to the house of the guy who's living room is filled with bank-note-filled briefcases. But ultimately, the smart clubs do it right - take enough to get a large advantage and make it seem like they are cheating, but not too much that they cant reasonably justify it.

As to the reason our club cant organise this? An ancient and inward looking management structure who's best business connection is the chip shop down the road. And I dont think we'll sign any top shelf players on the promise of extra chicken salt.

A chip shop is a good analogy for our mgt BennyV.

The TTPs is murkier than I thought!

Isnt it ironic the juxtaposition of a relatively tightly controlled cap alongside an open slather TPP ~~
 

possm

Coach
Messages
15,587
I've always believed that TPP/TPA should be managed by the NRL and player managers. They should have nothing to do with Clubs and all to do with keeping players in the NRL. TPP/TPA should be portable and move with players; they should be a fixed term contract and not part of or coincidental to a contract offered by a Club.

Player managers should bring TPA to the NRL and the NRL should consider approval based on set criteria. TPA should not coincide with the movement of a player to a new club and it's term should not coinced with the term of a new contract offered by a Club. Hopefully a TPA is just another way of competing against offers from rival codes .
 

Seoul Dragon

Juniors
Messages
90
I've always believed that TPP/TPA should be managed by the NRL and player managers. They should have nothing to do with Clubs and all to do with keeping players in the NRL. TPP/TPA should be portable and move with players; they should be a fixed term contract and not part of or coincidental to a contract offered by a Club.

Player managers should bring TPA to the NRL and the NRL should consider approval based on set criteria. TPA should not coincide with the movement of a player to a new club and it's term should not coinced with the term of a new contract offered by a Club. Hopefully a TPA is just another way of competing against offers from rival codes .

Agree, TPPs need a clear purpose, criteria and transparency.

At the moment they are like an unrestrained garden hose on full ~~
 

Life's Good

Coach
Messages
13,971
Thx SBD ~~ didnt know that.

Given that intention isnt it ironic that the so called rich clubs seem to be the ones playing the TPP game better and benefiting more than "poor clubs"
Its self fulfilling in a way. The strategic mindset of a good business person is to exploit all opportunities to prosper. This has the effect of attracting the talent. With that talent comes winning. Winning brings the riches and the cycle continues.
I see it as a business mindset vs. a footy club mindset. Not hard to figure out where we sit.
 

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