Third Party Payments ~ a crock or what!?

[Life's Good]

The benefits of being a one club city are clear. I was referring to the fact that it’s not the clubs fault we lack tpas as it’s up to the players to source these “personal sponsors”. Although I don’t doubt that on-field results influence companies wanting to have a part of a certain brand but seeing as Penrith aren’t exactly overly successful I can only assume that clubs are definitely behind more than is legal. The title of the thread is correct, they are a crock, it isn’t fair, but there isn’t a way to fix it really. You can’t take it away as it effects the most influential players in the games’ paychecks.

Understanding the clubs can’t underwrite/guarantee the TPA is very different to networking/canvassing potential investors. By this I mean our clubs admin isn’t restricted by who they mix with so they can foster relationships through their network to bring in TPA. This is where it seems we lack vs. other Sydney based clubs.
For example, Gus Gould would be out in the market looking for money(or they come to him)& he says ‘sure you can can be involved with club, let me introduce you to this player manager/player & you work out how best to work together(nudge, nudge, wink, wink)’.
Now while that’s simplistic it’s how it’s being done. For some reason it’s not happening with us.

 

[Life's Good]

If the NRL can instigate a Football Department spending cap on each club plus the Salary Cap on player payments, then why the hell can they not cap TPA spending / rorting. Set a maximum limit you imbeciles and no club can breach over.

Because the RLPA gets very sensitive to anything linked to player salaries(which is fair enough).

 

[BennyV]

The benefits of being a one club city are clear. I was referring to the fact that it’s not the clubs fault we lack tpas as it’s up to the players to source these “personal sponsors”. Although I don’t doubt that on-field results influence companies wanting to have a part of a certain brand but seeing as Penrith aren’t exactly overly successful I can only assume that clubs are definitely behind more than is legal. The title of the thread is correct, they are a crock, it isn’t fair, but there isn’t a way to fix it really. You can’t take it away as it effects the most influential players in the games’ paychecks.

In a perfect world, that’s true. However in the real world, the clubs do assist in sourcing these agreements for players considering signing for them, through corporate relationships with those looking to sponsor players. What sucks is that we are putting ourselves at a disadvantage because of the incompetence of the old boys on our BoD who’s idea of a corporate relationship is winking at the lady behind the counter at the local fish and chip shop.

It’s a crock because we aren’t in on it.

 

[Coffs dragon]

In a perfect world, that’s true. However in the real world, the clubs do assist in sourcing these agreements for players considering signing for them, through corporate relationships with those looking to sponsor players. What sucks is that we are putting ourselves at a disadvantage because of the incompetence of the old boys on our BoD who’s idea of a corporate relationship is winking at the lady behind the counter at the local fish and chip shop.

It’s a crock because we aren’t in on it.

You think our useless pricks on the Board would at least be able to organise some decent TPA's with the WIN TV Corporation, considering Andrew Gordon is the Chairman of Directors plus he is a Dragons Board Director. Hello!!!!

 

[BennyV]

You think our useless pricks on the Board would at least be able to organise some decent TPA's with the WIN TV Corporation, considering Andrew Gordon is the Chairman of Directors plus he is a Dragons Board Director. Hello!!!!

Well considering Andrew’s spot on the board, we couldn’t legally use that as a TPA. Would be more a case of getting him/Bruce to use their contacts to find other businesses looking to sponsor a player.

 

[getsmarty]

Well considering Andrew’s spot on the board, we couldn’t legally use that as a TPA. Would be more a case of getting him/Bruce to use their contacts to find other businesses looking to sponsor a player.

!00% Correct...look at other clubs boards and their directors...some are famous for their "Golf Days " ...LOL

 

[JDHD]

Well considering Andrew’s spot on the board, we couldn’t legally use that as a TPA. Would be more a case of getting him/Bruce to use their contacts to find other businesses looking to sponsor a player.

We can't use WIN, but there's no way to trace a phone call from Andrew or Bruce to one of their mates asking them to chuck $15k (which to guys like Gordon is an amount they wouldn't bend over to pick up) their way to help sign a Vunivalu or Dylan Walker, for instance.

 

[Coffs dragon]

Well considering Andrew’s spot on the board, we couldn’t legally use that as a TPA. Would be more a case of getting him/Bruce to use their contacts to find other businesses looking to sponsor a player.

Hey Benny, who said it had to be legal!! We just need to be smart and find ways like the others. The Broncos have that "Thoroughbreds" disguise of an organisation to pay the players on the side.
Where there is a will there is a way. Our mob seem unwilling!

 

[BennyV]

We can't use WIN, but there's no way to trace a phone call from Andrew or Bruce to one of their mates asking them to chuck $15k (which to guys like Gordon is an amount they wouldn't bend over to pick up) their way to help sign a Vunivalu or Dylan Walker, for instance.

Hey Benny, who said it had to be legal!! We just need to be smart and find ways like the others. The Broncos have that "Thoroughbreds" disguise of an organisation to pay the players on the side.
Where there is a will there is a way. Our mob seem unwilling!

Exactly the point. It's one of the many shortcomings of the morons on our board.

 

[possm]

Everyone is focusing on TPA's and this is making a real solution even more unlikely.
Forget about the TPA's, they are the player's business and clubs have many other ways of subsidising their contracts outside the cap.

Clubs that are wealthy by any means will find a way to make under the table payments to players.
This includes clubs that own Leagues Clubs and those with links to wealthy benefactors.....ie, brown paper bags, property deals, boats, jobs etc

If we can concentrate on getting the salary cap to be a valid representation of the playing talent / roster, then all these other problems will disappear.
By looking at reporting and registering TPA's you are all being distracted from the real solution in fixing the cap.
Tedesco should be in the cap for at least $1 mil regardless of his Roosters deal and TPAs.
Cronk should be on the books for $1.2 mil regardless of how much the roosters want to pay him.
Same with Thurston, Smith, Slater, Taumalolo, Milford, Boyd, and most of the elite / rep players etc.

This will :
Even the playing field (I don't want to spend my life supporting a club that is disadvantaged unfairly and has no realistic chance of success).
Distribute the talent to show up the elite who are never tested in a team not filled with rep players.
Distribute the talent and put expansion back on the agenda.
Give all fans a chance to support a successful team.
Make the competition more interesting for fans and sponsors.

If they can, Clubs will cheat the system to nab the best players. By offering TPAs to boost earnings of targeted players, rich Clubs can offer an unlimited dollar incentive to marquee players. This in addition to and not instead of the other unofficial payments made under the table.

I believe that there are only two options to sort this mess out:
1. To put TPA management in the hands of player mangers and have them as a stand alone contract moving with players from club to club. These TPA must not coincide with the starting date or completion date of a club contract and be for a set term no matter which club the player is playing for.
2. To have each offer made by club's to a player be presented to the NRL with the highest offer being considered the market value and cap value of the player. A player would be allowed to play at a club for a lesser amount than the highest offer however, the highest offer will be the salary cap value.

 

[possm]

In a perfect world, that’s true. However in the real world, the clubs do assist in sourcing these agreements for players considering signing for them, through corporate relationships with those looking to sponsor players. What sucks is that we are putting ourselves at a disadvantage because of the incompetence of the old boys on our BoD who’s idea of a corporate relationship is winking at the lady behind the counter at the local fish and chip shop.

It’s a crock because we aren’t in on it.

Surely, there is no good reason why we are not in on it. We have close relations with WIN TV who have a data base full of contacts in the business world who use WIN TV for advertising campaigns. Surely, Gordon could be introducing potential TPA sponsors to player managers - not directly to players and not to a particular player. So when it is time to consider an offer from the Dragons, the player manager contacts several potential sponsors to try and land a TPA.

 

[SGMax]

If they can, Clubs will cheat the system to nab the best players. By offering TPAs to boost earnings of targeted players, rich Clubs can offer an unlimited dollar incentive to marquee players. This in addition to and not instead of the other unofficial payments made under the table.

I believe that there are only two options to sort this mess out:
1. To put TPA management in the hands of player mangers and have them as a stand alone contract moving with players from club to club. These TPA must not coincide with the starting date or completion date of a club contract and be for a set term no matter which club the player is playing for.
2. To have each offer made by club's to a player be presented to the NRL with the highest offer being considered the market value and cap value of the player. A player would be allowed to play at a club for a lesser amount than the highest offer however, the highest offer will be the salary cap value.

Possum, we both want the same thing, a fairer competition but you are missing the point by focusing on TPAs. You can't control these and it is the players business if they can earn money outside of their playing contract.
Don't think that the reported value of TPAs is true either. Storm and Broncos would have way more than $700k going to their players.

Tighten up TPA's and brown paper bags will be on the increase.

The only tool we have to control and limit player signings is the cap and that needs to be a valid reflection of the players' value.

As I said before, let the players earn whatever they can get, just make sure they can't all go to the same few clubs by valuing them realistically and distributing the talent across the competition.

 

[True_Believer]

Well considering Andrew’s spot on the board, we couldn’t legally use that as a TPA. Would be more a case of getting him/Bruce to use their contacts to find other businesses looking to sponsor a player.

Well if Bruce is so interested in 'helping' the club by buying into it, why isn't he already doing this off his own bat? Why should the club be forced to push this agenda with him?

 

[Carlton]

Possum, we both want the same thing, a fairer competition but you are missing the point by focusing on TPAs. You can't control these and it is the players business if they can earn money outside of their playing contract.
Don't think that the reported value of TPAs is true either. Storm and Broncos would have way more than $700k going to their players.

Tighten up TPA's and brown paper bags will be on the increase.

The only tool we have to control and limit player signings is the cap and that needs to be a valid reflection of the players' value.

As I said before, let the players earn whatever they can get, just make sure they can't all go to the same few clubs by valuing them realistically and distributing the talent across the competition.

I think that you allow players to earn whatever they can get. The salary cap is still in play but is almost a points system. The clubs bid how much of the cap they are willing to spend on a player and the maximum is what is applied to their contract (I am not a fan of a subjective value being applied to players, I like the idea of a market approach). Any club willing to use that number of points can negotiate with the player and pay whatever. If a club bids the maximum points and then withdraws from the negotiations they have points deducted from their cap. A club can only bid using their available points at that point in time, not points that require shifting players at a later date.Clubs bidding on their own juniors receive a points discount.

Yes the rich clubs will get the first players but once they have used their points they cannot buy anyone else and the talent will be spread. This will also make recruitment and retention a strategic and essential role, even more so than now as long term planning becomes even more important and juniors critical to how this works. Players earnings are not restricted.

 

[BennyV]

Well if Bruce is so interested in 'helping' the club by buying into it, why isn't he already doing this off his own bat? Why should the club be forced to push this agenda with him?

Why indeed! It's almost as if his intentions arent all that pure...