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Who's to Blame

mickeylane

Bench
Messages
4,926
If Coaches have 95% influence over training sessions and players have 95% influence on game day- can we assume that both players and coach are equally at fault for our performance this year?

Its a question that was put by a leading coach when he got sacked by his club in Europe...I still think the coach is still at fault even on game day as it's his tactics that players take into the game...but interesting argument overall by the said coach...
 

getsmarty

Immortal
Messages
33,485
The Dragons won't fix their woes until they have a new coach



Andrew Ferguson

Expert
Yesterday



In Round 10, 2014, St George Illawarra lost 36-0 to Parramatta, a result which saw them fall from competition leaders to 13th on the table in the space of six weeks. It was the point of no return for Steve Price.

Price took over the Dragons in the post-Wayne Bennett era, but he couldn’t get the side to fire like the super coach had.

From 2012 to 2014, he was in charge 58 times for 22 wins – a success rate of just 37.9 per cent.


The club didn’t accept prolonged failure then. He was replaced by former player Paul McGregor.

Fast forward to this April, when the Dragons had opened their season with back-to-back losses before winning their next three straight games. That was enough for officials to decide that McGregor deserved a new contract.

Up until that point, ‘Mary’ had won 60 of 118 games – just over half. He’d snuck his side into the top eight in 2015, finished 11th in 2016, ninth in 2017, before rising to seventh last year.

After his new deal, St George Illawarra have won just four of their 18 games – a paltry 22.22 per cent success rate.

Now there’s talk he could lose his job at the end of the year. Madness.

Dragons-755x515.jpg

(AAP Image/Michael Chambers)



There have been mumblings all year that the Jack de Belin saga was largely to blame for their season. But given the fact they won four of their opening six games, this is improbable.

In 2019, the Red V have had their lowest possession percentage of all their full seasons under McGregor. In 2015 and 2017 it was over 51 per cent, 2016 was at 49.3 per cent, 2018 was 48.8 per cent, and 2019 is slightly lower at 48.7.

This year is their second-worst for completions over that time, at 76.3 per cent, with only 2016’s 75.4 per cent worse.

They’ve also made fewer line breaks in 2019 than their previous two seasons – 5.1 per game in 2017 and 3.4 in 2018, compared to 3.2 this year.

But most glaring is the field of post-contact metres. In 2015, 2016 and 2017 the Dragons averaged more per game than the competition average. But in 2018, that number dipped below the average. And while the number of post-contact metres has dropped competition-wide in 2019, McGregor’s team have fallen even further.

Tackle breaks also peaked in 2017, at 40.4 per game. In 2018 they were down to 35.8 and have plummeted to 28 in 2019.

Dummy-half running is the lowest it’s ever been under McGregor. In 2016 they made 14.6 runs from dummy half per game but that number fell to 12.5 and 12.3 in 2017 and 2018 respectively. In 2019, it’s down to just 10.

Offloads, which had been a team trait, have dropped by two per game in 2018 and almost another two again this year. Try assists have also fallen over the last two seasons, as have line-break assists.


There have been increases – but not in good areas. Missed tackles have gone up, as have handling errors. Ineffective tackles and penalties conceded have ever so slightly improved from 2018, but are still notably worse than in 2017.

Given de Belin’s absence is being cited as a major factor for the poor year, it’s only fair to look at his stats.

In 2018, he had four line breaks, 40 tackle breaks, 29 offloads, no try assists, 26 missed tackles, 12 errors, and conceded 16 penalties.

If added to their 2019 stats, his figures do not improve the team’s numbers enough to stop the downward trend.

Now obviously this is a simplistic view, however if a pack brimming with international stars like James Graham, Paul Vaughan, Tyson Frizell, and Korbin and Tariq Sims cannot cover for de Belin’s loss – let alone maintain solid numbers for three years – then there’s a much bigger issue.

Despite the magnificent squad all at the peak of their careers, this team is going backwards. They started heading in that direction before the last off-season.

The problem is a one-dimensional coach who is incapable of adapting and implementing changes to the point his side has become pedestrian. They are now the worst thing a team can be in attack: predictable. Much like the excuses he constantly trots out.

The Dragons should have waited until the end of 2019 to determine what to do with the gaffer. Not one club would have been chasing him in April, so why rush into re-signing him? The writing was on the wall last year, but a finals appearance papered over the cracks.

McGregor is the sixth coach in the joint-venture’s history and has a success rate of 47.4 per cent, which is better than Steve Price (37.9%) and Andrew Farrar (43.3%), but well behind Bennett (65%), David Waite (56.3%) and Nathan Brown (53%).

The Round 24 loss to the Tigers saw Paul McGregor become the St George Illawarra Dragons’ losingest coach in 21 years of existence.

He, and those responsible for extending his tenure as coach, need to be replaced immediately if the club is to turn their fortunes around.

https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/09/...eir-current-woes-until-they-have-a-new-coach/
 

denis preston

First Grade
Messages
8,229
The Dragons won't fix their woes until they have a new coach



Andrew Ferguson

Expert
Yesterday



In Round 10, 2014, St George Illawarra lost 36-0 to Parramatta, a result which saw them fall from competition leaders to 13th on the table in the space of six weeks. It was the point of no return for Steve Price.

Price took over the Dragons in the post-Wayne Bennett era, but he couldn’t get the side to fire like the super coach had.

From 2012 to 2014, he was in charge 58 times for 22 wins – a success rate of just 37.9 per cent.


The club didn’t accept prolonged failure then. He was replaced by former player Paul McGregor.

Fast forward to this April, when the Dragons had opened their season with back-to-back losses before winning their next three straight games. That was enough for officials to decide that McGregor deserved a new contract.

Up until that point, ‘Mary’ had won 60 of 118 games – just over half. He’d snuck his side into the top eight in 2015, finished 11th in 2016, ninth in 2017, before rising to seventh last year.

After his new deal, St George Illawarra have won just four of their 18 games – a paltry 22.22 per cent success rate.

Now there’s talk he could lose his job at the end of the year. Madness.

Dragons-755x515.jpg

(AAP Image/Michael Chambers)



There have been mumblings all year that the Jack de Belin saga was largely to blame for their season. But given the fact they won four of their opening six games, this is improbable.

In 2019, the Red V have had their lowest possession percentage of all their full seasons under McGregor. In 2015 and 2017 it was over 51 per cent, 2016 was at 49.3 per cent, 2018 was 48.8 per cent, and 2019 is slightly lower at 48.7.

This year is their second-worst for completions over that time, at 76.3 per cent, with only 2016’s 75.4 per cent worse.

They’ve also made fewer line breaks in 2019 than their previous two seasons – 5.1 per game in 2017 and 3.4 in 2018, compared to 3.2 this year.

But most glaring is the field of post-contact metres. In 2015, 2016 and 2017 the Dragons averaged more per game than the competition average. But in 2018, that number dipped below the average. And while the number of post-contact metres has dropped competition-wide in 2019, McGregor’s team have fallen even further.

Tackle breaks also peaked in 2017, at 40.4 per game. In 2018 they were down to 35.8 and have plummeted to 28 in 2019.

Dummy-half running is the lowest it’s ever been under McGregor. In 2016 they made 14.6 runs from dummy half per game but that number fell to 12.5 and 12.3 in 2017 and 2018 respectively. In 2019, it’s down to just 10.

Offloads, which had been a team trait, have dropped by two per game in 2018 and almost another two again this year. Try assists have also fallen over the last two seasons, as have line-break assists.


There have been increases – but not in good areas. Missed tackles have gone up, as have handling errors. Ineffective tackles and penalties conceded have ever so slightly improved from 2018, but are still notably worse than in 2017.

Given de Belin’s absence is being cited as a major factor for the poor year, it’s only fair to look at his stats.

In 2018, he had four line breaks, 40 tackle breaks, 29 offloads, no try assists, 26 missed tackles, 12 errors, and conceded 16 penalties.

If added to their 2019 stats, his figures do not improve the team’s numbers enough to stop the downward trend.

Now obviously this is a simplistic view, however if a pack brimming with international stars like James Graham, Paul Vaughan, Tyson Frizell, and Korbin and Tariq Sims cannot cover for de Belin’s loss – let alone maintain solid numbers for three years – then there’s a much bigger issue.

Despite the magnificent squad all at the peak of their careers, this team is going backwards. They started heading in that direction before the last off-season.

The problem is a one-dimensional coach who is incapable of adapting and implementing changes to the point his side has become pedestrian. They are now the worst thing a team can be in attack: predictable. Much like the excuses he constantly trots out.

The Dragons should have waited until the end of 2019 to determine what to do with the gaffer. Not one club would have been chasing him in April, so why rush into re-signing him? The writing was on the wall last year, but a finals appearance papered over the cracks.

McGregor is the sixth coach in the joint-venture’s history and has a success rate of 47.4 per cent, which is better than Steve Price (37.9%) and Andrew Farrar (43.3%), but well behind Bennett (65%), David Waite (56.3%) and Nathan Brown (53%).

The Round 24 loss to the Tigers saw Paul McGregor become the St George Illawarra Dragons’ losingest coach in 21 years of existence.

He, and those responsible for extending his tenure as coach, need to be replaced immediately if the club is to turn their fortunes around.

https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/09/...eir-current-woes-until-they-have-a-new-coach/


Great article, don't know if this bloke has enough media cred to be taken seriously by the mainstream but the statistics on post contact metres really hits home. He could also have mentioned the stagnation of development of young players coming through by playing kafusi, Latimore, maranta, etc and persevering with non performing players.
 

JohnnoMcJohnno

Juniors
Messages
2,379
It's a vicious cycle, but its started by the coach. His miserable game plans and lack of strategic nous ensure the players turn off, the fans see unmotivated players so they turn off, the sponsors see the drop-off of fans so they turn off.

Only way to break the cycle is to get rid of the coach. Souths did that with McGuire. Manly did that with Barrett. We need to do that with Mary.
 

BLM01

First Grade
Messages
9,063
You can blame anything and everything for our form except Mary himself.
He is the only one in the club (infact probably the only coach in the world) to have worked hard and long hours and as Blocker puts it no one could do any more in getting a team prepared better for game day than Mary.
That about sums it up and I hope answers your question Mickey but i have a sneaky that this has been asked elsewhere.
 

Dragons 09

Juniors
Messages
1,760
It's the bosses fault. The big boss. The dude or dudette who is highest up the tree, or in our case, deepest in the trough. This is the person who all others ultimately answer to, so he or she is ultimately responsible for everything that happens, good or bad. He or she is responsible for allowing things to continue to happen that should not be happening and responsible for commissioning and ensuring positives are fostered. Who is this person? it's not the coach or the players, they are mere subjects of this person. Find this person now and eradicate them. Replace them with an experienced, success driven, proven administrator who will ensure every branch or twig below them on the tree is up to the task. I have a suggestion, we should conduct a world wide recruitment campaign to identify and secure the most experienced available person and the campaign should be conducted by an experienced independent sports management recruitment agency. Ground breaking stuff i know, but it's worth a shot.:rolleyes:
 

madunit

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
62,358
Great article, don't know if this bloke has enough media cred to be taken seriously by the mainstream but the statistics on post contact metres really hits home. He could also have mentioned the stagnation of development of young players coming through by playing kafusi, Latimore, maranta, etc and persevering with non performing players.
I don't have much/if any cred amongst the public.

But within the media, they know me pretty well. Some of them have been ripping me/my site off for a few years now.
 

R&WTILLIDIE

First Grade
Messages
5,315
You can blame anything and everything for our form except Mary himself.
He is the only one in the club (infact probably the only coach in the world) to have worked hard and long hours and as Blocker puts it no one could do any more in getting a team prepared better for game day than Mary.
That about sums it up and I hope answers your question Mickey but i have a sneaky that this has been asked elsewhere.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not...
 

Slippery Morris

First Grade
Messages
7,471
The coach I think is responsible for 90% players 10%.

If the coach is not picking the best possible line up on game day then that is his fault not players. If the coach is telling the players to play his style and they follow that (which looks like what they are doing hence why they are so predictable and boring) then again coaches fault. If the players look fatigued again coaches fault. He has a whole squad and should put the fresh players on not one that is busted. Tariq was injured all season. You can see it but Mary kept him on only until he realised they were out of the race for finals.

The coaches job is to prepare the team and if he see's something is not working fix it or at least try to no do the same thing over and over again and hope it comes good eventually.

The only time a player is to blame is if they continue to make the same errors and show no improvement then they are letting their mates down and the team suffers. How many times did Saints get in top position only for Lafai to throw a bull$hit offload to nobody or Aitken let a try in for poor defensive read? Lafai is a showpony and Aitken is a player with potential but poorly coached. His deficiencies can be fixed but Mary honestly can't see it.
 

Old Kogarah Boy 1

First Grade
Messages
5,415
It's a vicious cycle, but its started by the coach. His miserable game plans and lack of strategic nous ensure the players turn off, the fans see unmotivated players so they turn off, the sponsors see the drop-off of fans so they turn off.

Only way to break the cycle is to get rid of the coach. Souths did that with McGuire. Manly did that with Barrett. We need to do that with Mary.

Precisely Johnno,
Everything ............... starts and comes from the coach, everything!
 

dragonfire

Bench
Messages
3,081
Great article!

But there really is nothing here for the fans to be excited about. Another year of the mediocrity, people have mentioned that half the players don’t believe in him. That’s enough for me to know next year will be another year of disappointment.
 

hazzbeen

Bench
Messages
4,617
Great article!

But there really is nothing here for the fans to be excited about. Another year of the mediocrity, people have mentioned that half the players don’t believe in him. That’s enough for me to know next year will be another year of disappointment.
Yep get ready for it , stock up on the grog , pills or what ever makes you happy , because it's going to be another loooooooong season........
 
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