3-2-1 v Raiders

[Penrose Warrior]

Fair question. To be honest, it's equal parts because I heard them say it and my frustration with that sin binning.

I thought the sin binning was a bit harsh. The Raiders got more than adequately warned (although was Horsburgh's for a crusher?) but it didn't seem to me like we were. CNK looked genuinely bemused that he got marched. No doubt it was a penalty but 17 clubs do that every week in on-line D, I thought it was unlucky.

I thought Sunday played out exactly as I thought it would, although I thought the Raiders would score more points.

I'm just really not liking our chances of making the top 4 and going on a run unless we can find a way to convert field position into points.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

I think the lack of votes is due to CNKs' part in the gameplan which is basically getting reasonable field position by the kick. But it would be good to mix that up a bit more rather than see CNK twice in a set of six. We cant score in their 20 so why not use that CNK possession with a bit more risk. One of our best tries was Lekas against the Tigers from inside our half. I would like to see more of that

The whole team's game plan is often just 5 hit ups and kick so I think it's hard to single out individuals to blame for not doing something more. Basically you have DWZ/CNK/RTS take 3 hit ups, then a couple of carries by forwards. I can't think of many occasions where CNK took a second carry where it looked like anything else was on, mostly he just took a carry that a forward/Ford would usually take, but often did a better job of it.

Ford was taking multiple hit ups a set (annoyingly he seemed to keep getting the ball when we were hot on the attack, shades of Michael Luck in his prime) but he seems to get a pat on the back for it. RTS and CNK do basically the same thing but it seems to be seen more favourably when RTS does it. Just subtle double standards imo.

 

[Bobby DIGital]

3. Clark - a tremendous warrior. He's also good when it comes to sorting out grubby opposition players. He's taken over from Addin there.

Who did he sort out?

 

[Meth]

Who did he sort out?

I can't speak for @Blair, but I think that we were missing some serious firepower in the middle and you need that firepower against the Raiders. Clark was really the only resistance we had in the middle in terms of actual physicality.

 

[Meth]

I thought the sin binning was a bit harsh. The Raiders got more than adequately warned (although was Horsburgh's for a crusher?) but it didn't seem to me like we were. CNK looked genuinely bemused that he got marched. No doubt it was a penalty but 17 clubs do that every week in on-line D, I thought it was unlucky.

Harsh, perhaps. I remember thinking that we were pushing it, precisely because of the number of infringements that were being called on our line.

 

[Blair]

In regard to Ford getting ball on attack I can see its benefit if it's the fifth tackle and he storms towards the posts, tackled short. What we then need is a quick ptb and our attack knowing exactly what side to go to, with a well-thought out move.

The day he gets the ball on the last and dies with it is the day we go back to the drawing board.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

In regard to Ford getting ball on attack I can see its benefit if it's the fifth tackle and he storms towards the posts, tackled short. What we then need is a quick ptb and our attack knowing exactly what side to go to, with a well-thought out move.

The day he gets the ball on the last and dies with it is the day we go back to the drawing board.

Well yeah but the same would apply for every other player in the team and the NRL, and I rate Ford approximately 17th out of 17 if what we're looking for is an effective run and quick play the ball.

(I exaggerate slightly, he's possibly better at hitting the ball up than some halfbacks for example. However there's an element of truth in what I say because when I checked the stats from Sunday's game he ranked 17/17 for play the ball speed for us).

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

Who did he sort out?

I mean tbf apart from running and tackling hard, there's no such thing as "sorting out" in the modern game. Clark played well and offers that every week.

The closest thing we have now to "sorting out" opposition troublemakers is basically committing foul play, having it captured on camera in HD, and then crossing your fingers and hoping it's your week for the crooked NRL to turn a blind eye (everyone seems to get a turn, hell even the Warriors and the Raiders).

Or I guess you could do some snarky gestures at the camera.

 

[RHYTHM AND STEALTH]

The whole team's game plan is often just 5 hit ups and kick so I think it's hard to single out individuals to blame for not doing something more. Basically you have DWZ/CNK/RTS take 3 hit ups, then a couple of carries by forwards. I can't think of many occasions where CNK took a second carry where it looked like anything else was on, mostly he just took a carry that a forward/Ford would usually take, but often did a better job of it.

Ford was taking multiple hit ups a set (annoyingly he seemed to keep getting the ball when we were hot on the attack, shades of Michael Luck in his prime) but he seems to get a pat on the back for it. RTS and CNK do basically the same thing but it seems to be seen more favourably when RTS does it. Just subtle double standards imo.

Maybe thats why our defence is so good cos the middles dont do much carries

 

[Beavers Headgear]

The main thing that jumped out to me with the points for this game is that you have Ford getting through a power of work which for me was largely ineffective, whereas you have CNK getting through a power of work which for me was much more effective, and yet the perception for a lot of people is obviously the opposite.

I think there is a bias against CNK because he is not as talented as RTS or as elusive as TT, and so it's like he is annoying people by existing even when he does something good. What I saw was he made our best run of the game (a 50m break) but he also regularly makes strong 10-12 metre carries and finds his front even when we are struggling for go-forward. For a guy who is not particularly big or fast he seems to have a knack for getting us on the front foot.

You can basically trace this back to the signing of RTS, plus a little bit of other teams working out our right edge attack. CNK being CNK was great in 2023, but ever since we had RTS waiting in the wings, CNK being CNK wasn't good enough anymore. I also think it's pretty absurd to blame CNK for our right edge attack becoming too predictable, but it's definitely a bonus he had to his game in 2023 which isn't really working now.

My version of that is other posters are obviously seeing Ford make 10-12 metre hit ups and are impressed by that, while all I can see is a guy who is basically giving the opposition a free rest and a chance to think about the next play every time he runs the ball. But then you could argue that just like CNK, while Ford doesn't look big or strong or fast, he just has a knack of going forward (no pun intended).

I agree with you on CNK, and it gets compounded by people’s memories of 2018-19 RTS, but I haven’t seen anything from him in his return that suggests 2025 RTS is anywhere near that player anymore

Where CNK will want to be careful though is that he is starting to get a bit of a rep in the game as a milkman, and rightly or wrongly there could be a point where a genuine thing is missed because of his rep

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

I agree with you on CNK, and it gets compounded by people’s memories of 2018-19 RTS, but I haven’t seen anything from him in his return that suggests 2025 RTS is anywhere near that player anymore

Where CNK will want to be careful though is that he is starting to get a bit of a rep in the game as a milkman, and rightly or wrongly there could be a point where a genuine thing is missed because of his rep

Another thing with RTS is he was never really a playmaking fullback, so putting him there wouldn't really change the shape of our attack much.

And yeah we 100% have milkmen in the team, CNK and DWZ are elites. I've sort of given up on caring because it's ubiquitous now.

Funny thing is when Tapine did his crybaby thing there wasn't even a milk, the ref blew the penalty immediately (unusual for a crusher).

 

[Penrose Warrior]

Yeah, I genuinely hate the milking thing. I can't remember the game (pretty sure it was CNK) where his milking may have contributed to us winning the game, but I hated it. The Tigers game, now comes to mind? It's shit.

Leka got smacked in the chops on the weekend but it's not in his DNA so he didn't go down, when the Raiders defender clearly hit him high. I'd rather our players had that integrity about them, even if it means we lose a game. I hate that sorta shit, the Panthers' trainers wetting the ball, the Storm doing anything the Storm do, etc.

 

[Beavers Headgear]

Garrick winds me up every game when he cries to the ref rather than playing the bloody ball

 

[Blair]

Wrong thread.