Rumoured Signings and General Dribble XIII

[caylo]

Don't get me wrong I would much rather hayne at 1 but the selectors seem to want Dugan there. And if they do pick the dead shit Dugan I reckon hayne provides more value to the team at 6 than he does at wing. He would also offer more than Maloney .

Hayne can play positions 1-6 at a pinch regardless of what he does at parra

I can see the logic with that if there isn't any quality on the wing but next year there will be Morris, Hoppa and Ferguson if he comes back with the other Morris and Jennings in the centres as options before even considering moving hayne. Then there are guys like McManus and Uate who can also fill in. Dugan should be competing with Hayne for the #1 unless there is a shortage of players (injury or being f*ckwits etc).

A halves paring of Carney and Maloney would do well IMO, Carney right and Maloney left

 

[Casper The Ghost]

Jarryd Hayne, 25, 155 NRL games, 17 Origins, 6 tests for Australia.

+ one bullet shot and saving a woman drowning in the surf.

 

[Eelementary]

Mate, he's pretty good. He doesn't have the punch that some more compact (i.e. shorter) props do, but the height (coupled with his strength) gives him greater leverage with offloads and the defensive wrestle.

Plus he does make a lot of metres and he's athletic so he can play 60 minutes if needed.

He makes a lot of overall metres per game, but his metres per hit up is rather mediocre, as I found in my research. Scott, Mannnah, Gallen and Fifita (if memory serves) all made more metres per run than Tamou.

Now, there are two predominant schools of thought in regards to making metres in rugby leagues, as my coach once said (and he modelled it on the NFL and their running backs):

(1) total metres per game; and

(2) average metres per carry.

In the NFL, they use an important metric called "yards per carry" (often abbreviated to "ypc"). Most NFL coaches would rather see their running back's ypc high, regardless of their total yardage for the match. The reason is simple:

Let us assume a running back makes 20 runs in a match, and makes 150 total yards. He's made an average of 7.5 ypc. Considering a down is 10 yards (allowing for no penalties or sacks), making 75% of the yardage required for a first down on average every time he runs the ball is solid work.

Other coaches prefer running backs who shine in the first category; they'd rather see a running back run for 300 yards off 30 carries. But these coaches think that, firstly, repeated runs will sap the defence, and secondly, quantity is better than quality.

Appropriating that into rugby league, you can have forwards who make good overall metres from lots of runs (like Tamou), and forwards who make less metres on average, but they make more metres per carry.

James Tamou is very good at making 15 runs a game or so, and making 115 metres a match or so. But then you might have a prop who makes 10 hit ups and makes 100 metres - at first glance, his numbers look poor. But he's making a solid run every time he touches it (on average).

In conclusion, I think that Tamou, given his sheer size, is overrated. He should be making more metres per carry than Mannah.

 

[spiderdan]

Agree Hayne and Carney need to be in the spine, but I'd stick with Pearce at 7. It's fashionable to put shit on him but I reckon he's New South Wales' best halfback after Carney. Plus he's incumbent, which would be meaningless if he was shit, but he's not.

But if we were to arsehole Pearce we should partner Carney with a half who defends well - Mullen, Campese and Sutton are all good options, even though two of those have been (unfairly) thrown on the 'never again' pile.

i see what you're getting at. My thoughts for Mullen before Pearce is that I think Mullen is the best south paw half in the comp and his left to right passing is streets ahead of anyone else which would add a lot to that right side attack (most sides attack down the left as most players are right handed and pass better in that direction, which then makes players defending on the right look worse as they get more points scored on them).

Pearce though has had more time to cement himself than any other half for nsw post johns/fittler. I don't think carney, campese, mullen (and to a lesser extent Wallace, soward)
have been given the same latitude to prove their worth.

 

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

If any running back (NFL not College) ever averaged 7.5 ypc or 300 yards per game he would be the annointed as the greatest player ever. The yards per carry metric has merit, but the big difference across the codes is that in NFL the running back invariably gets ball as part of a set play (i.e. everyone else knows its a running play and who is getting the ball). If you have a star running back he will do well at both ypc and ypg....he'll get plenty of plays.

 

[Gary Gutful]

Also in the NRL sometimes you need a forward to stick their hand up when a team is caught in their own half and getting smashed by the opposition.

Back in the day someone like Webcke would have been that forward who would have had a couple of runs each set. He might not have made more than 10 metres each run but he probably contributed a lot more to team morale.

A forward who is selfless in those instances is likely to have a lower ypc.

 

[Eelementary]

Also in the NRL sometimes you need a forward to stick their hand up when a team is caught in their own half and getting smashed by the opposition.

Back in the day someone like Webcke would have been that forward who would have had a couple of runs each set. He might not have made more than 10 metres each run but he probably contributed a lot more to team morale.

A forward who is selfless in those instances is likely to have a lower ypc.

Very true, mate.

I think Tamou has potential, but he needs to alter the way he plays. I think last night he was dreadful.

 

[Eelementary]

If any running back (NFL not College) ever averaged 7.5 ypc or 300 yards per game he would be the annointed as the greatest player ever. The yards per carry metric has merit, but the big difference across the codes is that in NFL the running back invariably gets ball as part of a set play (i.e. everyone else knows its a running play and who is getting the ball). If you have a star running back he will do well at both ypc and ypg....he'll get plenty of plays.

To give you an example, Darren McFadden was criticised because he was making 200+ yards a game, but they were coming off of 30+ carries a game.

The ypc count isn't the be-all and end-all, but it's important in gauging how well a RB is playing.

We could apply a similar philosophy to the NRL, I believe.

 

[spiderdan]

To give you an example, Darren McFadden was criticised because he was making 200+ yards a game, but they were coming off of 30+ carries a game.

The ypc count isn't the be-all and end-all, but it's important in gauging how well a RB is playing.

We could apply a similar philosophy to the NRL, I believe.

i think in nrl the continuous play takes away a little from that stat (seems more relevant in nfl reset line scrimmages each play). I used to think that if a player could make 8m per hit up they were doing well but now I am a big believer that if you make a bit less but manage to get a quick play the ball it's just as valuable.

 

[Eelementary]

i think in nrl the continuous play takes away a little from that stat (seems more relevant in nfl reset line scrimmages each play). I used to think that if a player could make 8m per hit up they were doing well but now I am a big believer that if you make a bit less but manage to get a quick play the ball it's just as valuable.

There's something to be said for that.

But I think that someone Tamou's size should be able to dominate both stats. With his height and sheer size, he should be able to make quite a few metres per carry, as well as get down quickly to play the ball quickly.

 

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

To give you an example, Darren McFadden was criticised because he was making 200+ yards a game, but they were coming off of 30+ carries a game.

.

That tells you more about the team's depth at RB (and the quality of passing/receiving options), than about his quality as a runner then.What was their win/loss record while he achieved this?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

There's something to be said for that.

But I think that someone Tamou's size should be able to dominate both stats. With his height and sheer size, he should be able to make quite a few metres per carry, as well as get down quickly to play the ball quickly.

His height works against him in the sense that defenders can get under him.

His quality isn't in his power but in his range and athleticism - he gets around the field, has a good workrate, and uses his height for offloads and to wrap the ball up in defence.

If you want a yardage man you go for a stockier prop like Scott, Mannah or Maria-Hargreaves. Tamou is quality because he does everything else well, plus he can make the tough runs when required (as every prop should).

So he's certainly not the best at yardage/quick play-the-balls, and that is an important part of the game for front rowers, but it's only part of the game. That's why he's in the Australian team.

 

[The Elephant In The room]

His height works against him in the sense that defenders can get under him.

His quality isn't in his power but in his range and athleticism - he gets around the field, has a good workrate, and uses his height for offloads and to wrap the ball up in defence.

If you want a yardage man you go for a stockier prop like Scott, Mannah or Maria-Hargreaves. Tamou is quality because he does everything else well, plus he can make the tough runs when required (as every prop should).

So he's certainly not the best at yardage/quick play-the-balls, and that is an important part of the game for front rowers, but it's only part of the game. That's why he's in the Australian team.

He's less than an inch taller than JWH. I think its as much his running style, than height that cause his problems.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

He's less than an inch taller than JWH. I think its as much his running style, than height that cause his problems.

He's also about 10kg lighter than JWH. When we talk about height and weight we need to consider how they relate to each other. Use BMI if you prefer.

 

[Eelementary]

That tells you more about the team's depth at RB (and the quality of passing/receiving options), than about his quality as a runner then.What was their win/loss record while he achieved this?

I think we went 4-12 or something. We've sucked for a long time.

 

[Eelementary]

His height works against him in the sense that defenders can get under him.

His quality isn't in his power but in his range and athleticism - he gets around the field, has a good workrate, and uses his height for offloads and to wrap the ball up in defence.

If you want a yardage man you go for a stockier prop like Scott, Mannah or Maria-Hargreaves. Tamou is quality because he does everything else well, plus he can make the tough runs when required (as every prop should).

So he's certainly not the best at yardage/quick play-the-balls, and that is an important part of the game for front rowers, but it's only part of the game. That's why he's in the Australian team.

I can understand what you're saying. You make some good points.

 

[Jason70]

Old news now, but Anthony Milford looks like he won't be at the raiders next year. Ain't karma a bitch Ricky!

 

[Sensai Cobra]

Suck shit Ricky....




I feel better now

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I feel bad for Canberra, and pissed at the Broncos though. That kind of thing could happen to any of our players. It's not good for the game.

 

[Daneel]

I feel bad for Canberra, and pissed at the Broncos though. That kind of thing could happen to any of our players. It's not good for the game.

I dont feel bad for canberra, but the broncos are giving me the sh*ts. Hoffman tells them he wants out and they tell him his contracted so tough. It stinks of hypocrisy. Mind you canberra have the same stench themselves. I read where don furner was going off about his players being approached while still under contract. Sound familiar Don? Offered any under contract coaches a job recently Don?