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100% Official Griffin for the next 2 years

Rob Dragon 1

Juniors
Messages
172
Opinions are opinions , that’s fine. No surprises people hate McGregor. I don’t one bit. The bloke basically dedicated his life to the Steelers, then dragons in the JV. He was never malicious hateful selfish or and negative traits I can think of. “Rotten apple”… wow…

But the post is who did the best in order. Not “liked” or otherwise. My list is based on where a coach took over and how far they took them.

Bennett got a great team but like scaling Everest, they couldn’t get up the “Hilary step”… he did. Club went up with him.


Brown got a decent but disjointed side. Then blessed with a burst of talent he got them places as a rookie coach. He got them to the Hilary step but they couldn’t go any further. That said, the club went up with him.

I loved Waite for what he did in 96. We think now are the furthest depths the club has plummeted to, has nothing on the start of 96 and he took us to a gf that year. Yes I quoted the NRL era and he got “lumbered” with Farrar. Why we kept Farrar and not Waite afterwards I’ll never know or understand. The club went up with him.

Farrar with Waite got us the the 99gf with a combined team from 2 “well performed clubs”. Still not easy but an embarrassment of riches. Farrar got the nod, Waite leaving. Then as the cap tightened and we had to shed players… we fell away… with all we still did have and the belief in 99 the club could be a powerhouse, we could sustain it. Club went down with him.

Steve price taking over was like going into bat after Bradman…. But he had the advantage of working under the best coach of the time and inheriting an outstanding roster - who because of Bennett now possessed self belief. But it wasn’t to be and only a few years later we wallowed at the bottom. The club went down, far down under him.

And now for most people’s favourite poster-boy, Paul McGregor. He took over, reluctantly, when Price got the boot. We were 13th on the table and a complete mess after winning a gf only a few years before… early years weren’t dazzling but we snagged a finals berth a few years later.. and we’re running red hot in 2018 until mid season. We battled for the rest of the year without our captain Widdop but jagged a finals spot and a whisker away from a prelim final. 2019 and on has been well discussed here… there’s no correct definitive answer as to why… but my opinion has always been it’s never just been because of the coach.

The club went up, then down with McGregor.

But all have had to work under a disjointed, self-interest, proud, protective management team.

I don’t hate any of these coaches. Skill n results are a side issue for me in terms of liking/disliking someone.
They all busted their guts trying to coach our side under all the circumstances they individually had at the time. Similarly I don’t hate Anthony Griffin. I just don’t see that he’s any better than what we had before…. He’s just different.
I didn't see McGregor as being reluctant for a second. The news I heard from a club source is that he undermined Price from Day 1 to get the job. This might be scuttle-bug news as the person who advised this is not a McGregor fan, so take that as you will.

I thought McGregor was one of those types who we run into in the workforce who are almost totally unqualified for a position but who weasel there way into the role and then spend their entire time "managing up". In McGregor's case he is reported to be great mates with Andrew Gordon. What a great double those two make!

But here is the real McGregor coaching reputation exposed. On the Sunday Footy Show today Sterling and the journo's were discussing Brad Arthurs tenure at the Eels and they noted that one of the things that could save him is there are no qualified coaching candidates to take over from here. No mention of our dear Paul? I mean this is a bloke who coached 1st grade for 7 years and until quite recently. Why aren't suitors lining up for him, even as an assistant coach? Because no-one rates him. When back to back Club Captains leave it is not a great endorsement of the Coach.
 
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8,480
The list of our past coaches from the commencement of the joint venture to now leads me to say that I would place Griffin between Brown and McGregor. I agree with your ratings BBJF with Bennett at the top and daylight between him and Waite and not too far back from Waite, Brown is registered.

How would the likes of Griffin, who I have put behind Brown, and McGregor been rated if the squad of players that Waite had at the commencement of the joint venture were given to Griffin and McGegor during their coaching terms (Griffin of course yet to complete his)? How would Bennett be rating if he had the squad of players that Griffin and McGregor has/had? Somehow, I don't think that that daylight would be that great a gap. But Bennett had the ability to "improve" the players with his good man management skills.

McGregor loved the Dragons. He played great football for the joint venture and if he had have coached the Dragons with the likes of the 2010 team, his rating could have been up there but maybe not to reach the grand final as he would have lacked the man management skills.

To me, much of what coaches are able to achieve is relative to what the club is doing to get the right players at the club. We had Frank Facer who was able to get those great players to sign with the Dragons and because of his astute running of the club, the players wanted to stay. The coaches at the time, several being captain/coach, imo would not have that much work to do as the players themselves were the key to our success rate in that period.

The Storm, which is used a great deal to compare other clubs with, have been able to "attract" many players who show potential and then are coached to play the "Storm" way with obvious great results and Bellamy no doubt would have a sort of manual which sets down all of the criteria each player must do before playing first grade and they must endure strenuous measures to achieve the nod. Cam Smith wasn't "great" before the Storm signed him. He had the potential and they just trained him right to fit into the manual guidelines. So many others as well. In this case it has been the coach and the players were trained to believe in the coach. Once the players know the drill, the coach just sits back and lets the guys do their thing which he has faith in them to do. All he has to do is set the game plans for the clubs they face.

When Billy Slater hung up his boots, no one knew that the Storm had a young fella by the name of Ryan Papenhuyzen waiting in the wings or a Jahrome Hughes ready to take over from Cooper Cronk or Brandon Smith/Harry Grant to take over from Cam Smith. These players all had potential and trained the Storm way. Bellamy has set the "guidelines" in concrete and when he retires, the new coach just has to know the guidelines and do what Bellamy has done for the club for the past umpteen years. So the success will continue.

None of our coaches since Bennett have been able to improve the majority of the players "potential" to the extent of them becoming top consistently playing well footballers. Most still plod along as there is no set "guidelines" for improvement manual, I don't think anyway, for the coaches to apply to the players. If we were able to get a player like a young Cam Smith, would have McGregor or now Griffin be able to "improve" him. I don't think so, because there isn't a system in place for this at the Dragons, I don't think anyway.

Griffin is on a get success quick mission by hiring "experienced" players because of his short term contract. He doesn't have the time to sign players with potential. Maybe if he does have the time given to him, he might be able to do the "Storm" thing. But at this stage I rate him between Brown and McGregor.
Great post mate enjoyed the read.

We are all passionate fans in here, absolutely no doubt.
 

Ghostrider22

Juniors
Messages
519
Rating out coaches since the JV…. I wonder where Griffin will end up …

Mine in order…

Bennett

Daylight

Waite
Brown
McGregor
Farrar
Price

I’m hoping he pulls this disaster together like us all, but I’m not confident.

Realistically at the absolute best I think he could match brown. But we are years and years off pulling together a squad like that again. Where I think he’ll end up?

With Farrar, Above Price.

And it won’t just be his doing. Ryan Webb comes across really well but apart from him, I have zero confidence in the effectiveness and influence of our management. It smacks of self-protectionism and fawlty-towers strategies…

Bennett got what he wanted… ran the ship. Doust got him in. Doust is back, will he pull off another coup like this?

I’m hopeful but doubtful. I think a Bennett-eque coup is the only thing that’ll see us back at the top of the table any time this decade…
John I would have David closer to Coach, the reason he had no team and David worked so hard to put a team together with all the Bullshit from SL it was absolutely a shit time.
 

Ghostrider22

Juniors
Messages
519
I didn't see McGregor as being reluctant for a second. The news I heard from a club source is that he undermined Price from Day 1 to get the job. This might be scuttle-bug news as the person who advised this is not a McGregor fan, so take that as you will.

I thought McGregor was one of those types who we run into in the workforce who are almost totally unqualified for a position but who weasel there way into the role and then spend their entire time "managing up". In McGregor's case he is reported to be great mates with Andrew Gordon. What a great double those two make!

But here is the real McGregor coaching reputation exposed. On the Sunday Footy Show today Sterling and the journo's were discussing Brad Arthurs tenure at the Eels and they noted that one of the things that could save him is there are no qualified coaching candidates to take over from here. No mention of our dear Paul? I mean this is a bloke who coached 1st grade for 7 years and until quite recently. Why aren't suitors lining up for him, even as an assistant coach? Because no-one rates him. When back to back Club Captains leave it is not a great endorsement of the Coach.
Why do you think Coach got rid of that person when he arrived.
 

Dragon David

First Grade
Messages
7,600
Agree DD. I also follow Manchester United and it was the same with Sir Alex. He had a system and knew what he wanted. When a striker moved in he went and bought the best one that fitted his system. It was not a scattergun approach.He also had a core group of senior players like the Storm who set the standards. Roy Keane was not everyone's cup of tea and he also did not get on with Sir Alex but Keane knew his role was to make sure the team followed the manager's directions and win games. If you stepped out of line, watch out. I'm sure something similar happens at the Storm. Even though Smith, Cronk, Slater etc have moved in, the current crop saw what was needed and they now set the standard for the next generation. I'm sure this was also the case during the Dragon's golden run in the 50's and 60's.
Nicely said Trifili13 and a very good analogy. MU was the Storm of football with Sir Alex at the helm. What a club. Mine is Liverpool and it was great to see them as Premier League champions in the 19/20 season.
 
Messages
8,480
heres your guarantee...
"Anthony has missed finals football only once which speaks to the strong discipline and ability to develop young talent of which he has exhibited both throughout his career.
I hit the first page of this thread by mistake, but read a number of posts which made for interesting reading - but this one stood out for mine…

Missed finals football once… chalk up number 2 please!

Strong Discipline …. BBQ’s galore! And let’s recruit a bloke in McGuire who spends more time on a charge sheet than the field..

Junior talent…hmmm anyone blooded this season from our juniors that’s been trusted to stay in first grade….? First thing he did was bring mcullough in for 3 years, then later - brought a bloke in Beale back from the Q cup…

Not a pop at Mickey here… just funny how in hindsight you see these PR comments from clubs and media for what they really are… hopeful spin.

So if the club is in any way looking at keeping Griffin on, surely finals are a must, junior talent is fostered Into first grade - no more bog-average signings (Mbye!!) and instead sticking to what he said he’d do - develop juniors…

And having a culture where the players respect his word and the club itself. We are far from that at present.

What that quote failed to mention is he was sacked twice… and from Penrith for the most part due to player relationships….

Anyway let’s see what 2023 brings..
 
Messages
8,480
YOU BLOODY BEAUTY.......WAS ALWAYS MY CHOICE......NOW LETS GET RID OF THE DEAD WOOD AND START A FAIR DINKUM RECRUITMENT DRIVE IN CONJUNCTION WITH OUR YOUNGER UP AND COMERS......AND PLEASE NO MORE USED BY DATE PLODDERS

Mate I can see the optimism with the use of capitals with your post here many moons ago, but alas…

And last line … no more used by date plodders…. That Nails it for me.

Like you I can’t watch them at the moment. Like watching my favourite pub burning down.
 

Trifili13

Juniors
Messages
790
Despise is a harsh word. I prefer to say that I simply don't like any teams that I don't follow. At least your team has a history (of winning) and you are not a Chelsea or City supporter for whom football only started in the last decade or so. I am not naive and realise you need to spend money to win anything, but those teams would be nowhere without their sugar daddies.
 

Dragon David

First Grade
Messages
7,600
Despise is a harsh word. I prefer to say that I simply don't like any teams that I don't follow. At least your team has a history (of winning) and you are not a Chelsea or City supporter for whom football only started in the last decade or so. I am not naive and realise you need to spend money to win anything, but those teams would be nowhere without their sugar daddies.
Agreed.
 

Rob Dragon 1

Juniors
Messages
172
David Waite is St Gorge royalty.

He and the players represented the emblem of the great St George club. I have never been as shattered and proud at the same time.
Yep agreed. Waite did a great job. Same pattern though. Outsider Coaches have been the best performed in the last 50 years. I know Harry Bath was originally from the Dragons but he had been gone for + 20 years before he returned to coach. Brian Smith (2 x GF's). David Waite (2 x GF's). Roy Masters (1 x GF). Wayne Bennett (1 x GF and 1 Premiership). Harry Bath ( 2 x GF's and 2 Premierships). All outsiders not corrupted by the BOD stench.

Here is an indictment on 50 years of administration. If we don't win another premiership by 2029 (and we ain't close at this rate) we will have won ONE premiership in 50 years. Shameful.
 

Dragon David

First Grade
Messages
7,600
Yep agreed. Waite did a great job. Same pattern though. Outsider Coaches have been the best performed in the last 50 years. I know Harry Bath was originally from the Dragons but he had been gone for + 20 years before he returned to coach. Brian Smith (2 x GF's). David Waite (2 x GF's). Roy Masters (1 x GF). Wayne Bennett (1 x GF and 1 Premiership). Harry Bath ( 2 x GF's and 2 Premierships). All outsiders not corrupted by the BOD stench.

Here is an indictment on 50 years of administration. If we don't win another premiership by 2029 (and we ain't close at this rate) we will have won ONE premiership in 50 years. Shameful.
Well, now that we have another outsider, going from our history of outside coaches, Hook should get us to at least a grand final. If he doesn't, instead being an outsider, he will be an outcast.
 

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