100 years to the day

[THECURSEDJET]

I hope the good folk at Newtown have organised a celebration of sorts to commemorate the birth of the mighty Blue Bags on the 14th January 2008, 100 years to the day!
with Glebe (formed 9th January 1908 & at the time the first club formed according to the NSWRL) now only a memory to those die hard historians, Newtown can lay claim to being the oldest established club in rugby league.

 

[cumberlandsashes81]

The official Newtown line is that they were formed on the 8th of January.

This has been pretty comprehensively proven to be untrue... so why does the club continue to go with that date?

Isn't it enough being the oldest existing club? Why try to pretend you pipped Glebe by a day?

 

[The Dawson Twins Minus 1]

No "pretending" needed.

We have the original club minutes book, which has that day written in as the date of the inaugural meeting.

We also have receipt no. 1 from the NSWRL. I've seen them both.

Before you bring up the 15/01/08 SMH report of a meeting being held the previous night, you have to remember that the SMH then (as now) were pro RU and anti RL. That they reported anything at all about the filthy breakaway code, much less did it accurately, was a miracle.

Therefore, that solitary article has to be viewed with some scepticism and, more importantly, balanced against a number of 1920s, 1930s and 1940s articles in the Sydney sporting press that affirmed the foundation meeting as being held on 08/01/08.

At that time there were many people still around who were at the meeting and could refute the date, but none did.

So, the count is:

TWO primary sources FOR the 08/01/08 date / first club status and NONE AGAINST.
ONE secondary source AGAINST and SEVERAL FOR.

That's why we say we were founded on 08/01/08.

 

[cumberlandsashes81]

http://www.rl1908.com/clubcomps/founding-clubs.htm

Sean's point is that the third party evidence (not just the SMH, but other papers of the day) is contrary to that in your minute book.

He posts on this forum as RL1908 - ask him about it...

TWO primary sources FOR the 08/01/08 date / first club status and NONE AGAINST.

No, one source for the 8 January date - in fact a self-created source. Several that show 14 January and that Glebe were the first.

I'm not trolling here - I'm genuinely perplexed as to why this is such a big deal for Newtown to have been the first when the evidence is against you... You have a great club, a great history and a great future -- why not just accept 14 January?

 

[RL1908]

I appreciate that no matter what I or any other RL historian has to say on the matter, Newtown supporters and the club won't change their position - but, for the benefit of everyone else, here are some points worth considering....

The receipt was given for payment of the premiership entry fee - it had to be paid to the NSWRL by April 1, 1908. The clubs didn't pay on the night they were founded. The numbering of the receipts doesn't correloate with the order of the founding dates e.g. Souths have receipt #2 (rather than #3) and it is dated weeks after January 17.

The Newtown receipt is signed by Victor Trumper, the NSWRL treasurer - Trumper wasn't in Sydney in early/mid January. Trumper was playing in "timeless" cricket Tests in Melbourne & Adelaide for Aust v England from 1st Jan to 16th Jan. There is no way he could have been in Sydney on Jan 8th. "The Australian Star" of Thursday Jan 16th lists who attended the Newtown meeting of the 14th - Trumper is not one of them.

It is recognised that newspapers published at the time of an event are a primary source when it comes to historical studies. The Newtown Minute Book is a secondary souce as there is no way to prove when the entry was written into the book. It would be a primary source if a newspaper had the same date. To date, Newtown have produced nothing to prove when the entry in the Newtown Minute Book was made.

In the absence of any other evidence, we can therefore only rely upon the eight or so major Sydney newspapers at the time (not just the SMH) - and they all state January 14th. None point to the 8th, and none have any claims by Newtown officials that the published date (Jan 14th) is wrong.

It is a bit hard to ignore the Sunday Sun of 12 January 1908 i.e. this is right in the middle of the two disputed dates of 8th and 14th: "The first rugby league club has been formed at Glebe...Meetings are to be held at Newtown and South Sydney early this week for a similar purpose."

Unfortunately, the Glebe club's demise in 1929 has left Newtown's claim as the first club formed to go largely unchallenged.

It seems that as Newtown were in possession of "receipt #1", a presumption was made that the club must have been the first formed. As Glebe were formed on Jan 9th, the presumption was that Newtown were formed before Jan 9th. However, the numbering of the NSWRL receipts doesn't match the order the clubs were formed in, and Victor Trumper wasn't in Sydney in early/mid January to sign "receipt #1". All "receipt #1" proves is that Newtown paid first.

All I can do is put the information before the public, and offer my conclusions based upon the available information. Newtown can do the same if they want to. The public will then be able to make up their own minds as to what date should be taken as Newtown's founding date.

In any event, being first hardly mattered when the Sydney metro area was divided by a residential scheme - it's not as if Newtown got dibbs on Easts or Norths area by being first!

 

[THECURSEDJET]

The official Newtown line is that they were formed on the 8th of January.

This has been pretty comprehensively proven to be untrue... so why does the club continue to go with that date?

Isn't it enough being the oldest existing club? Why try to pretend you pipped Glebe by a day?

egotistical, self appraisal and stupidity are but a few words that come to mind.that and the only grasp they have left on 1st grade recognition.

 

[THECURSEDJET]

No "pretending" needed.

We have the original club minutes book, which has that day written in as the date of the inaugural meeting.

We also have receipt no. 1 from the NSWRL. I've seen them both.

Before you bring up the 15/01/08 SMH report of a meeting being held the previous night, you have to remember that the SMH then (as now) were pro RU and anti RL. That they reported anything at all about the filthy breakaway code, much less did it accurately, was a miracle.

Therefore, that solitary article has to be viewed with some scepticism and, more importantly, balanced against a number of 1920s, 1930s and 1940s articles in the Sydney sporting press that affirmed the foundation meeting as being held on 08/01/08.

At that time there were many people still around who were at the meeting and could refute the date, but none did. grasping at straws will not change history, funny how proof of Victor Trumper not being in Sydney to sign off still is not enough proof! now explain how all the hand writing in the "Newtown"minute book is all of the same hand writing? has the thought ever crossed your mind they are re-productions? what about the fact the NSWRL does not recognise Newtown as being the first club formed?
So, the count is:

TWO primary sources FOR the 08/01/08 date / first club status and NONE AGAINST.
ONE secondary source AGAINST and SEVERAL FOR.from your where you sit, not that of history

That's why we say we were founded on 08/01/08,/quote]that's right, you say, once again,not history

 

[THECURSEDJET]

any way, Newtown got booted in 1982 and never did return to 1st grade, so truth be known from 1982-1991 Newtown were non existent.

grasp away with your egotistical proof!!! live in the past of little glory and continue in the second tier comp that is no better than A Grade park football

PITY SOME CAN'T ACCEPT THE TRUTH AND OTHERS NEED TO FALSIFY IT TO FEEL IMPORTANT.

 

[Die-Hard p/t Jet Fan]

Religion is made up of fictional stories presented as fact. Big Deal. Never stops them from doing it. Fact schmacts I say!

On a brighter note I got one of those Jets Centenary jerseys for Chrismas, those things are a work of art

 

[Dallas]

Sorry to put the cat amongst the jets but, as tcj says, the jets wernt around between 1982 and 1991, therefore, I think its a bit of a call that there is a claim to the 100 years. It should be 91 years. And in any case, wasnt the club reformed in 1991? I just think its a bit of a call to claim it.

Newtown have lots of history - and alot of respect from me - Im a massive traditionalist as most would know. I recognise that Newtown were and are a foundation club, however, I just dont accept the claim they have been around as an entity for 100 years.

Same goes for Souths - they didnt play for 2 or 3 seasons at all whilst they were out of the NRL. Their jersey flegg team was actually Souths Juniors, a seperate entity.

Balmain - well they merged with Ryde Eastwood - so that counts them out.

Easts - They changed their name to Sydney City Roosters - counts them out.

So that leaves justs Norths and Wests - Hey Norths fans - heads or tails?!

Nah, seriouslly though - Personally, just think that the claim that Newtown founded it all is a bit of a call. Its always been Glebe and second was Newtown.

Sean hits it on the head when he mentions The Sun publication of the 12th.

Newtown, if you want to claim it then go ahead - but, having only played league for 91 years - it puts you 9 years behind the foundation teams of Norths and Wests - the ONLY two continuious playing teams in Rugby League.

 

[Henson Park Hornets]

Firstly the Jets were excluded from the First Grade at the end of the 1983 season and not '82 as quoted above.

Secondly, the Newtown RLFC still fielded teams in the junior rep comps after 1983. The club, from what I believe, still held monthly board meetings and had AGMs etc and on that basis are still the same club with the same legal entity and the same constitution.

On the field the Jets were not represented during this time, however it takes a lot more to put together a club than just sticking 13 blokes on the field.

 

[cumberlandsashes81]

Presumably when the club entered the Metro Cup in 1990 it wasn't re-established from nothing... Just as the South Sydney DRLFC remained in business while out of the NRL I'm guessing the Newtown club carried on business of some kind for those six/seven years up to 1989/1990.

 

[THECURSEDJET]

Firstly the Jets were excluded from the First Grade at the end of the 1983 season and not '82 as quoted above.

Secondly, the Newtown RLFC still fielded teams in the junior rep comps after 1983. The club, from what I believe, still held monthly board meetings and had AGMs etc and on that basis are still the same club with the same legal entity and the same constitution.

On the field the Jets were not represented during this time, however it takes a lot more to put together a club than just sticking 13 blokes on the field.

your quote hold substantial meaning, pity the current board manipulate the wording of the so called constitution to suit the need to keep a closed shop!!

Have a read of the constitution, very interesting indeed, yet not adhered to when it comes to certain matters, yet others they over protect in order to save there bacon...

 

[Die-Hard p/t Jet Fan]

your quote hold substantial meaning, pity the current board manipulate the wording of the so called constitution to suit the need to keep a closed shop!!

Have a read of the constitution, very interesting indeed, yet not adhered to when it comes to certain matters, yet others they over protect in order to save there bacon...

Yawn....if all is so bad, I reckon topping yourself is the best course of action.

 

[Dallas]

Im not here to put s**t on boards or anything like that, nor am I wishing to put it on the fans - Ive been a Magpies fan since I was old enough to goto the footy, I know what its like to cop s**t for following a team.

All Im saying is that its a bit rough on Wests and Norths who have struggled and begged to play 100 years of CONSTANT SENIOR football to have to share the limelight with those who havent - including Souths, Easts and Balmain.

Yes, Newtown is a foundation team. Yes, they are a traditional team, yes they are a club (just like Wests and Norths). No, they havent played 100 years of professional Senior football, and thats what this year should be - a celebration of 100 years of the highest level of NSW Rugby League.

For sure, celebrate 100 years of being a club - but only on the proviso that you were an operating entity between 1984 and 1991, if not, then its like saying that the Cumberland club, who played a handfull of games in 1908, or Newcastle who played only away games in 1909 are also celebrating 100 years.

Yes, I recognise that Newtown were a foundation club - however, your participation in the Metro cup doesnt mean you are able to celebrate 100 years of top level NSWRL participation - nor were you the first club formed - that honour, as previouslly mentioned goes well and truely to Glebe.

I really think it would be a crying shame for the game, and for our history for there to be confusion about the first club in the game - that first club was Glebe, followed closely by Newtown.

 

[Die-Hard p/t Jet Fan]

Im not here to put s**t on boards or anything like that, nor am I wishing to put it on the fans - Ive been a Magpies fan since I was old enough to goto the footy, I know what its like to cop s**t for following a team.

All Im saying is that its a bit rough on Wests and Norths who have struggled and begged to play 100 years of CONSTANT SENIOR football to have to share the limelight with those who havent - including Souths, Easts and Balmain.

Yes, Newtown is a foundation team. Yes, they are a traditional team, yes they are a club (just like Wests and Norths). No, they havent played 100 years of professional Senior football, and thats what this year should be - a celebration of 100 years of the highest level of NSW Rugby League.

For sure, celebrate 100 years of being a club - but only on the proviso that you were an operating entity between 1984 and 1991, if not, then its like saying that the Cumberland club, who played a handfull of games in 1908, or Newcastle who played only away games in 1909 are also celebrating 100 years.

Yes, I recognise that Newtown were a foundation club - however, your participation in the Metro cup doesnt mean you are able to celebrate 100 years of top level NSWRL participation - nor were you the first club formed - that honour, as previouslly mentioned goes well and truely to Glebe.

I really think it would be a crying shame for the game, and for our history for there to be confusion about the first club in the game - that first club was Glebe, followed closely by Newtown.

Why do you care so much? Some of the maggies seasons from late 80's to early 90's hardly count as participation.

 

[THECURSEDJET]

Yawn....if all is so bad, I reckon topping yourself is the best course of action.

yawn!!!! your so predictable, you Bruce Willis wannabe

come up with something fresh, unlike your breath

 

[THECURSEDJET]

Im not here to put s**t on boards or anything like that, nor am I wishing to put it on the fans - Ive been a Magpies fan since I was old enough to goto the footy, I know what its like to cop s**t for following a team.

All Im saying is that its a bit rough on Wests and Norths who have struggled and begged to play 100 years of CONSTANT SENIOR football to have to share the limelight with those who havent - including Souths, Easts and Balmain. Dallas, as much as I rattle the cage on this forum, I do really need to take you too task over this comment, truth of the matter is the roosters are the only club to have participated in every year for the past 100 seasons. you can "technicaly" spin doctor all you like, eg: the NSWRL 1st formed the rugby league competition, then came along the super league war, from that came the ARL/NRL whom now are the current administrators, so if you wish to discredit a team on the basis of a name change, we in fact are not celebrating 100 season at all, it would be something like 10 maybe 12 years of NRL! ask your mate shuan what he thinks and lets us know?

Yes, Newtown is a foundation team. Yes, they are a traditional team, yes they are a club (just like Wests and Norths). No, they havent played 100 years of professional Senior football, and thats what this year should be - a celebration of 100 years of the highest level of NSW Rugby League.

For sure, celebrate 100 years of being a club - but only on the proviso that you were an operating entity between 1984 and 1991, if not, then its like saying that the Cumberland club, who played a handfull of games in 1908, or Newcastle who played only away games in 1909 are also celebrating 100 years.

Yes, I recognise that Newtown were a foundation club - however, your participation in the Metro cup doesnt mean you are able to celebrate 100 years of top level NSWRL .( one could argue this point, they played in a NSWRL sanctioned competition) participation - nor were you the first club formed - that honour, as previouslly mentioned goes well and truely to Glebe.

I really think it would be a crying shame for the game, and for our history for there to be confusion about the first club in the game - that first club was Glebe, followed closely by Newtown.

I do agree strongly with you here, it is a shame the people at present wish to bask in glory of the many dedicated founding members of yesteryear.

 

[Sterling]

1908- 1983. ..

not quite 100 years

 

[Dave Q]

Happy Birthday Newtown.

A grand old club which as far as I am concerned, are equal in stature to all of the clubs in the top comp.

100 excellent years.