'11 | AAMI CvC | Fri | Country 18-12 City | Lavington SG, Albury

[caylo]

Stop reading the papers? :lol:
Hayne not in bad form? That's dribble and you know it. Hayne has been ordinary and quiet the whole year, he occasionally has his moments of brilliance and I will give him credit, he is doing a lot of work. But he is far from playing as he should be and as such it is understandable that for a player of his quality, many would consider his form to be ordinary.

Hayne has 6 LBA, 5TA, 2LB and 2Tries from 6 games in the worst attacking team in the comp, also did you miss his two brilliant tries against the dogs? He is only behind Thurston and Benji for TA and LBA in the team that scored the least tries and makes the least line breaks. Jennings has also been ordinary from Penrith but when put in a good team he performed expetional tonight.

Dugan has played 2 games and has scored 3 tries in those games!

How can you call them out of form, that is very uneducated of you Boxy

Currently Dugan and Hayne are both playing better then Gorden (i don't care how far from their best they are)

 

[boxhead]

QLD picked JT when Prince was in great form, they picked slater when wesser and bowen were in great form etc. If you picked teams on form every week you would have a different origin side... that is a dumb argument.

You said Hayne and Dugan were out of form, that is ridiculous. Hayne and Dugan have been in sides struggling also Hayne has missed the last two weeks while Dugan has completed only two matches this year. You can't judge form on such few performances.

Hayne is leading stats for most deparments for fullbacks this year while both fullbacks scored two tries in their last match. Gorden has been a shining light for Penrith but that is because people have come to expect that sort of form from Dugan and Hayne.

IMO neither Dugan or Hayne could have done much more, I think Hayne looked better in attack and played a more prominent role and so I would chose him but I understand people who go the other way. Very much a 50-50 call just like it will be near impossible to seperate Mullen and Pearce IMO.

Your completely missing the point of my original post. I said if the selectors picked on form as some people said they would and if they picked on who deserved to be there based on that form, and my answer was that Gordon has been far superior to either of them. Compare Hayne of 2010 to Hayne of 2011, so far he has been mediocre and most Eels fans admit that gladly. Dugan has been injured and I'm probably giving him more flak than I should.

I never said he set the world on fire, I asked what more you expected of him - you have, so far, failed to come up with an answer.

Tonight wasn't the sort of game where one player stood out above all, but I will say one thing for Dugan: he looked far more enthusiastic and I interested than Hayne did.

Dugan wanted the ball all night. He wanted to take the game by the scruff of the neck and make it his own. It wasn't the sort of game where thatwas going to happen, but his desire was there for all to see.

What more did I expect of him? I expected more tackle busts and blinding runs. I'll ask you the same question; what more did you expect of Hayne? There's no question either player can play much better than they are at the moment. I will say this to you though, of the two that can be selected for the number 1, Dugan deserves it more.

 

[caylo]

Your completely missing the point of my original post. I said if the selectors picked on form as some people said they would and if they picked on who deserved to be there based on that form, and my answer was that Gordon has been far superior to either of them. Compare Hayne of 2010 to Hayne of 2011, so far he has been mediocre and most Eels fans admit that gladly. Dugan has been injured and I'm probably giving him more flak than I should.

I think you missed the point

I am saying even thou 2010 Hayne > 2011 Hayne (so far) and 2010 Dugan >2011 Dugan (so far) both 2011 Hayne and 2011 Dugan are >> 2011 Gorden.

You are saying Gorden has out performed Dugan and Hayne when he hasn't it is just you expect more from Hayne and Dugan.

 

[Doomednow]

I think you missed the point

I am saying even thou 2010 Hayne > 2011 Hayne (so far) and 2010 Dugan >2011 Dugan (so far) both 2011 Hayne and 2011 Dugan are >> 2011 Gorden.

You are saying Gorden has out performed Dugan and Hayne when he hasn't it is just you expect more from Hayne and Dugan.

Gordon*

You're doing it wrong. Over, and over, and over again.

 

[851]

After this game, certainties for the blues: Uate, Jennings.

Who else?

Jennings blew 2 tries by hogging the ball with an unmarked winger,he should not be in origin.

 

[Charles Bronson]

when is the replay on fox???

 

[Bwuce]

Is Soward busted? Imho, Jennings should not be let near a Blue jersey - Qld see him coming and breathe a sigh of relief.

 

[caylo]

Gordon*

You're doing it wrong. Over, and over, and over again.

haha... sorry mate. I've learnt now wont make the mistake again

 

[Doomednow]

Jennings blew 2 tries by hogging the ball with an unmarked winger,he should not be in origin.

I must have missed those.

 

[boxhead]

Hayne has 6 LBA, 5TA, 2LB and 2Tries from 6 games in the worst attacking team in the comp, also did you miss his two brilliant tries against the dogs? He is only behind Thurston and Benji for TA and LBA in the team that scored the least tries and makes the least line breaks. Jennings has also been ordinary from Penrith but when put in a good team he performed expetional tonight.

Dugan has played 2 games and has scored 3 tries in those games!

How can you call them out of form, that is very uneducated of you Boxy

Currently Dugan and Hayne are both playing better then Gorden (i don't care how far from their best they are)

Mate, the fact that he produces those stats in the worst team in the competition is both a good sign and a bad sign. He is expected to do much better than he is right now, and, unfortunately, with him leading our attack we are deficient because we lack halves. Compared to their best form they are definitely not playing as well as they could be, which was my whole bloody point! Read my posts carefully.

Everyone knows statistics are merely one indication of form. Whilst Jarryd certainly was our best try-scorer, try-assister and line-break assister in 2010 there was definitely indications from all that he was nowhere near his best. How is that not evidence enough that he was comparitively not playing as well as expected?

You should read up on Gordon and watch him play, you forget to mention that he is also playing in a badly struggling team!
Let's compare a few important stats;
All Run Metres:
Hayne - 827
Gordon - 1162
Gordon makes more runs but, hell, 300 more metres already? That's quite a margin.
Gordon is second in terms of average metres per run, Jarryd doesn't even come close.

Gordon's tackle-busts stat also eclipses Hayne's.

The real killer though is what skeepe pointed out, Dugan looked far more interested and did far more work off the ball than Hayne did. Gordon is much the same with Penrith this year, he is everywhere and he is constantly working. As I said earlier, stats are only part of the calculation and it's hard to describe it to people when they can't see for themselves the differences between the two players when they are on the pitch.
I'm sorry, but as far as fullback's go, whilst Hayne may be more the play-maker, he doesn't come anywhere close to Gordon as far as natural fullback-play goes, at least at the moment.

By the way, Gordon has 5 line-breaks to Hayne's 2. Go figure.

 

[caylo]

Is Soward busted? Imho, Jennings should not be let near a Blue jersey - Qld see him coming and breathe a sigh of relief.

He did but he created a lot more havoc then any other centre.

I personally dont like changing the side centres play on because some centres are very ineffective on the other side (i.e Gaz would be near usless on the left). So i see the left centre position between Jennings, Morris and Lawrence. Since Lawrence did play and Jennings out performed Morris its a no brainer. If Idris was a left centre I would have him but he is a right centre and so I wouldn't consider him tbh.

 

[boxhead]

I think you missed the point

I am saying even thou 2010 Hayne > 2011 Hayne (so far) and 2010 Dugan >2011 Dugan (so far) both 2011 Hayne and 2011 Dugan are >> 2011 Gorden.

You are saying Gorden has out performed Dugan and Hayne when he hasn't it is just you expect more from Hayne and Dugan.

Nope. Mate, honestly, watch Penrith play. If I was sitting here, not a fan of either of the three clubs and I asked myself after watching each team play every game, which player has been the best so far this year?
The answer is quite simple. Dugan has missed quite a bit of footy through injury, Hayne has been quiet and racking up nowhere near the stats he usually does, and Gordon has been flying at the back.

 

[steven_tiger]

Dugan has played 2 games and has scored 3 tries in those games!

Yes, but one was from a knock on and one from a grid iron pass.

Neither really shone if you ask me. I wont be disappointed if/when either of them get named.

I would like to see Gordon get a run there though - he's an electric fullback.

I thought big Galloway played a really good game tonight. He bent the line and made a lot of tackles. I hope he can snag a bench spot.

None of it matters anyway - QLD will roll us again.

 

[boxhead]

Yes, but one was from a knock on and one from a grid iron pass.

Neither really shone if you ask me. I wont be disappointed if/when either of them get named.

I would like to see Gordon get a run there though - he's an electric fullback.

I thought big Galloway played a really good game tonight. He bent the line and made a lot of tackles. I hope he can snag a bench spot.

None of it matters anyway - QLD will roll us again.

Which is exactly the reason Dugan and Slater have been so successful, the former in a shorter time. Slater is the best on the world not only because of what he does on the ball, but because of what he does off the ball; his positioning, reading of the game, communication and running around the field are second to none. He works his arse off, and Dugan and Gordon are much the same. Hayne is lazy but trades this with injections into the game that often result in tries.
Slater has shown the need for a fullback that keeps working throughout the whole eighty minutes and plays with energy and pace. Gordon and Dugan are far better equipped to live up to that.

 

[caylo]

Mate, the fact that he produces those stats in the worst team in the competition is both a good sign and a bad sign. He is expected to do much better than he is right now, and, unfortunately, with him leading our attack we are deficient because we lack halves. Compared to their best form they are definitely not playing as well as they could be, which was my whole bloody point! Read my posts carefully.

Everyone knows statistics are merely one indication of form. Whilst Jarryd certainly was our best try-scorer, try-assister and line-break assister in 2010 there was definitely indications from all that he was nowhere near his best. How is that not evidence enough that he was comparitively not playing as well as expected?

You should read up on Gordon and watch him play, you forget to mention that he is also playing in a badly struggling team!
Let's compare a few important stats;
All Run Metres:
Hayne - 827
Gordon - 1162
Gordon makes more runs but, hell, 300 more metres already? That's quite a margin.
Gordon is second in terms of average metres per run, Jarryd doesn't even come close.

Gordon's tackle-busts stat also eclipses Hayne's.
I'm sorry, but as far as fullback's go, whilst Hayne may be more the play-maker, he doesn't come anywhere close to Gordon as far as natural fullback-play goes, at least at the moment.

Meters run indicated next to nothing, it depends the role you play. SK has asked Hayne to do less hitting up of the ball so his run meters are down and he is only getting involved in attack plays. Slaters running meters last year were amoung the least of all fullback simply because he doesn't play that role while Gorden must.

Gorden has also played games on the wing and played more games then Hayne, hence why his running meters are up. More importantly Gorden plays with halves that can put him in a gap while Hayne doesn't so obviously if you make less line breaks you are going to run less meters.

You fail to consider Gordens running meters compared to his team, Parramatta make the less meter of any team in the comp meaning we have teams on the back foot less and creates less space. I tell you now, no fullback would look anywhere near as good as hayne does in our team and that is the true test. Hayne creativity this year is at the same standard as guys like Lockyer and Benji it is the players around him who are failing him.

I already said that Haynes form is down on last years but even so he is in better form in 2011 then Gordon.

 

[boxhead]

Meters run indicated next to nothing, it depends the role you play. SK has asked Hayne to do less hitting up of the ball so his run meters are down and he is only getting involved in attack plays. Slaters running meters last year were amoung the least of all fullback simply because he doesn't play that role while Gorden must.

Well then what does your try-assists and tries stat reveal about how Hayne has apparently played better then? You throw up those stats, then say that it depends on the role the fullback is used for, and disregard the stats that are generally used to differentiate fullbacks? That's hypocritical.

Gorden has also played games on the wing and played more games then Hayne, hence why his running meters are up. More importantly Gorden plays with halves that can put him in a gap while Hayne doesn't so obviously if you make less line breaks you are going to run less meters.

Playing games on the wing, especially considering the difference in form, means that his metres would be down! I can show you the average metres gained of most wingers compared to fullbacks in their respective teams and the fullbacks generally lead in that area. The fact that he has played games on the wing, has only played one/two games more and yet has over 300 more metres than Hayne is a definite indication of who is the better performer here. I think you are being a bit generous regarding the Panther's halves, Walsh is noted for his kicking game but his passing game is not up to par either. Whilst the difference between the two definitely is the role they play, if you study the periods of the game when the fullback receives the ball from a kick and returns the ball, Gordon's meterage in this section of the game would eclipse Hayne's. Coincidentally, you'll be surprised to know that Gordon and Hayne have 4 and 2 linebreaks, respectively, so you can't say that's the main reason for the gulf in the statistics.

You fail to consider Gordens running meters compared to his team, Parramatta make the less meter of any team in the comp meaning we have teams on the back foot less and creates less space. I tell you now, no fullback would look anywhere near as good as hayne does in our team and that is the true test. Hayne creativity this year is at the same standard as guys like Lockyer and Benji it is the players around him who are failing him.

The problem is caylo, is that the role Jarryd plays is not the role he should be playing. He's too good an attacking weapon in terms of finishing to be the primary play-maker, which is obviously why he has struggled the past few years. But regardless of this, if the player is playing the role the coach asks them to play and that is best suited to their team at present, then comparisons will be drawn.

I already said that Haynes form is down on last years but even so he is in better form in 2011 then Gordon.

Have you even watched Gordon play this year?
In fact, his short stint at fullback at the end of 2010 probably far eclipses anything Jarryd did throughout the whole of 2010, and I say that with duress and I say that having watched essentially every minute of all but one Eels game.
The fact that he came in as a fill in and basically pushed Coote out of the side because of his form is a bloody good indication of what he is capable of.
I think that whilst I am definitely being harsh on Hayne, you are giving Gordon too little credit.

 

[caylo]

Gordon and Hayne have 4 and 2 linebreaks, respectively, so you can't say that's the main reason for the gulf in the statistics.

It does when you consider the two line breaks Hayne made were 10 meters out and in one game Gordon made two line breaks and ran about 150 meters collectivly (in that game he ran 300 meters).
Kick returns is a much better indicator or that
Gordon v NZ (61 Mts, 5 KR), v Manly (39Mts, 4KR), Melbourne (150Mts, 8KR) and Canberra (29 Mts, 5KR)
SO outside of the Melbourne game his Kick return stats are so far inferior to Hayne its not funny, an area you have critized Hayne. I have watched all penriths games this year and they are a team i have a soft spot for but Coote is a better fullback then Gordon so don't even compare him to Hayne.

The problem is caylo, is that the role Jarryd plays is not the role he should be playing. He's too good an attacking weapon in terms of finishing to be the primary play-maker, which is obviously why he has struggled the past few years. But regardless of this, if the player is playing the role the coach asks them to play and that is best suited to their team at present, then comparisons will be drawn.

Have you even watched Gordon play this year?
In fact, his short stint at fullback at the end of 2010 probably far eclipses anything Jarryd did throughout the whole of 2010, and I say that with duress and I say that having watched essentially every minute of all but one Eels game.
The fact that he came in as a fill in and basically pushed Coote out of the side because of his form is a bloody good indication of what he is capable of.
I think that whilst I am definitely being harsh on Hayne, you are giving Gordon too little credit.

What LBA and TA prove creativity and fullbacks in this day and age have to be able to throw the last pass and finish of tries. Gordon is inferior to Hayne in both departments, he is a live wire but makes more errors and is less dependable at the back then Hayne. Gordon is better then Hayne at fullback in stats and stats only.

Hayne has proven at all levels of the game and his form is atleast as good as Gordons if not better. I never claimed Gordon was poor rather Hayne and Dugan have been better with their time on the field. Most importantly is Hayne is proven at the highest level and Gordon has played one origin match. I am all for having Gordon in the team but to suggest him as a fullback over Hayne, Dugan or even Stewart is just laughable.

 

[mrpwnd]

Just quietly, I'd have Hayne over Dugan.

Didn't see much from Dugan, especially when the quality of the battle between CvC was less one-sided as it was last year.

Just my opinion coming back from the game.

 

[hybrid_tiger]

Farah got players player BTW. Thought he was good, nothing flash but good, slick service from dummy half and very good in defense. Stuart would have liked what he saw.

I also though Galloway had a strong game, deserves a bench spot IMO.

 

[Gaba]

if pearce could handle pressure city would have won, but again he doesnt have the ability