16 teams for the 2021 RLWC?

[Springs09]

Why do we always panic like this? Half the games in the last WC were blow-outs, and half the games in the Union WC are blowouts. This isn't anything new. Tonga actually beat Scotland by more in 2008.

On one hand we want more domestic players in the WC, then we get embarrassed at blowouts and don't want the domestic teams like USA there at all. We want Tonga and Fiji to challenge the top teams, but then cry about it when they smash the lower teams.

There is no gap any more than there used to be. The reality is teams 4-13 (Samoa, Tonga, Fiji, PNG, France, Scotland, Ireland, Wales, Italy, Lebanon) all have 5-10 players who can pretty much make a 50 point difference. Take 5 class players out of Tonga and put 5 class players into Scotland and we have the 2013 result. Similarly, take Moses, Farah, Mannah, Twal and Lichaa out of Lebanon and put Escare, Gigot, Duport, Casty and Springer into France and France win by 20+. Fiji would have reached 80 on the weekend if they had their full forward pack and Radradra.

This is what World Cups are about, and it's what teams in all sports face. Different environments, conditions, crowds, players etc. There are plenty of problems with this tournament, but the product on the field and the players are not one of them.

 

[adamkungl]

Great post Springs

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

Slightly off topic, but a World 9s would be great in offering opportunites to countries that cant compete in the RLWC...

We would limit the floggings with the 20min games and we might even get some good upsets. We could have a field of 30+ teams if we were feeling ambitious and run the comp across 2/3 weekends and several different stadiums.

It would be great for the emerging nations to have something to hang their hat on. Whether its hosting the event or just challenging the top teams, it would help sell the sport to younger players.

The World 9s could be the stepping stone we need to a bigger and better RLWC....

 

[bowes]

lol Niue fmd.

Stop being so concerned about the results of 1 game or 1 week. Rugby League fans never look at the bigger picture. If injuries and defections fall slightly differently we aren't having this conversation.

Canada, Jamaica, Serbia, Malta, and Cook Islands will be the serious contenders for those 2 extra spots imo. Scotland will still be in the mix, I think they will sort out their domestic issues but even if they don't I wouldn't be surprised if the RLIF just conveniently ignores them

As things stand it's likely to be Russia or Serbia for one extra spot and Canada, Jamaica or Cook Islands for the other. If the RLIF enforce the domestic rules that Scotland have zero chance of meeting then we'll probably see Cook Islands and one of Jamaica or Canada qualify

 

[bowes]

Scotland have had 17 years since their first RLWC. And they only have one player in their squad for this years RLWC that has played domestically (For what i am aware), and now have no domestic competition.

They havent achieved much in 17 years, no way its going to happen in the next four.

They've also been trying and failing to run a league for four seasons so not sure what will be different in the next four years.

 

[hutch]

Why do we always panic like this? Half the games in the last WC were blow-outs, and half the games in the Union WC are blowouts. This isn't anything new. Tonga actually beat Scotland by more in 2008.

On one hand we want more domestic players in the WC, then we get embarrassed at blowouts and don't want the domestic teams like USA there at all. We want Tonga and Fiji to challenge the top teams, but then cry about it when they smash the lower teams.

There is no gap any more than there used to be. The reality is teams 4-13 (Samoa, Tonga, Fiji, PNG, France, Scotland, Ireland, Wales, Italy, Lebanon) all have 5-10 players who can pretty much make a 50 point difference. Take 5 class players out of Tonga and put 5 class players into Scotland and we have the 2013 result. Similarly, take Moses, Farah, Mannah, Twal and Lichaa out of Lebanon and put Escare, Gigot, Duport, Casty and Springer into France and France win by 20+. Fiji would have reached 80 on the weekend if they had their full forward pack and Radradra.

This is what World Cups are about, and it's what teams in all sports face. Different environments, conditions, crowds, players etc. There are plenty of problems with this tournament, but the product on the field and the players are not one of them.

Sensational post!

 

[Stallion]

They've also been trying and failing to run a league for four seasons so not sure what will be different in the next four years.

If the petition for sports recognition and status works then things will improve everywhere for rugby league. However this needs to happen. The reason for no government funding is the Achilles heel of rugby league growth in most countries. And I suggest we know which rival code has been using this fact for their own purposes for many decades.

 

[Coastbloke]

Why do we always panic like this? Half the games in the last WC were blow-outs, and half the games in the Union WC are blowouts. This isn't anything new. Tonga actually beat Scotland by more in 2008.

On one hand we want more domestic players in the WC, then we get embarrassed at blowouts and don't want the domestic teams like USA there at all. We want Tonga and Fiji to challenge the top teams, but then cry about it when they smash the lower teams.

There is no gap any more than there used to be. The reality is teams 4-13 (Samoa, Tonga, Fiji, PNG, France, Scotland, Ireland, Wales, Italy, Lebanon) all have 5-10 players who can pretty much make a 50 point difference. Take 5 class players out of Tonga and put 5 class players into Scotland and we have the 2013 result. Similarly, take Moses, Farah, Mannah, Twal and Lichaa out of Lebanon and put Escare, Gigot, Duport, Casty and Springer into France and France win by 20+. Fiji would have reached 80 on the weekend if they had their full forward pack and Radradra.

This is what World Cups are about, and it's what teams in all sports face. Different environments, conditions, crowds, players etc. There are plenty of problems with this tournament, but the product on the field and the players are not one of them.

This. Pretty much post of the tournament. I didn't feel that way after watching some games though..lol

Crowds on the other hand. Still an issue that needs addressing..

 

[Perth Red]

16 teams would be the ideal but arguably we don't even have 12 competive sides a the moment. Until we see more French players in SL and more png players in NRL it's unlikely we will see much strengthening in the space of Eight years let alone four.

 

[Perth Red]

As things stand it's likely to be Russia or Serbia for one extra spot and Canada, Jamaica or Cook Islands for the other. If the RLIF enforce the domestic rules that Scotland have zero chance of meeting then we'll probably see Cook Islands and one of Jamaica or Canada qualify

It would take very Little investment from the nrl to make rl the national game of the Cook Islands. Most players play union and league but some money on Rarotonga would see RL dominate and become the first choice comfortably.

 

[NRLMad]

The problem there is, Australia is so far ahead of tier 2 countries in quality and quantity of players that we could put our 5th best team on the field and still slaughter most if not all of the teams from that level.

I’m talking about vs England, New Zealand, Samoa and Tonga. Australia’s fifth team would be terrible.

 

[NRLMad]

16 teams would be the ideal but arguably we don't even have 12 competive sides a the moment. Until we see more French players in SL and more png players in NRL it's unlikely we will see much strengthening in the space of Eight years let alone four.

French players in the ESL has grown largely when compared to last World Cup. The players seem a lot better.

 

[PARRA_FAN]

16 teams is good for the next tournament. People are looking forward to seeing who will be the other 2 teams, assuming all the current 14 teams qualify. And there's plenty of countries chasing those spots for the first time. Serbia will be going for another shot once again, Canada could be good leading into the 2025 world cup, Jamaica, Malta, Greece, Belgium, Holland, Spain etc. Then there's Russia and South Africa trying to make a return to the World Cup.

We had 16 teams in 2000 but 15 were already named without any qualifying matches and very little internationals leading into the tournament.

This will be way different.

 

[Pedge1971]

No chance. Scotland have failed to run a four team domestic league season for four consecutive seasons now and I expect they won't even bother next year as there are only two teams in Scotland and neither are consistent at travelling to away games. The criteria state an eight team domestic league which is far beyond Scotland's capacility (and unlikely to be enforced as even Wales might struggle with that), though I really can't see them letting Scotland get away without a league at all

Just a suggestion and sorry if it has already been mentioned or tried. What about a provincial league of 8 to 10 teams comprising teams from Scotland, Wales and Ireland?

Might be able to attract more money from sponsors, a more parochial fan base and hopefully something that would start as tier 2 behind ESL but in time could become elite in it's own right?

Start with home grown players for each team and see what happens?

 

[langpark]

16 teams is good for the next tournament. People are looking forward to seeing who will be the other 2 teams, assuming all the current 14 teams qualify. And there's plenty of countries chasing those spots for the first time. Serbia will be going for another shot once again, Canada could be good leading into the 2025 world cup, Jamaica, Malta, Greece, Belgium, Holland, Spain etc. Then there's Russia and South Africa trying to make a return to the World Cup.

We had 16 teams in 2000 but 15 were already named without any qualifying matches and very little internationals leading into the tournament.

This will be way different.

Will be interesting if rules are enforced or not. If the rule requiring a certain amount of domestic activity is indeed applied, then Scotland, Belgium and Malta won't even be eligible to take part in the qualifying process.

 

[Irish-bulldog]

Will be interesting if rules are enforced or not. If the rule requiring a certain amount of domestic activity is indeed applied, then Scotland, Belgium and Malta won't even be eligible to take part in the qualifying process.

They need to enforce that rule in my opinion, we need to stop holding scotlands hand, invest the time into the country that's doing the hard yards at home.

 

[bowes]

Just a suggestion and sorry if it has already been mentioned or tried. What about a provincial league of 8 to 10 teams comprising teams from Scotland, Wales and Ireland?

Might be able to attract more money from sponsors, a more parochial fan base and hopefully something that would start as tier 2 behind ESL but in time could become elite in it's own right?

Start with home grown players for each team and see what happens?

That wouldn't even be close to viable

 

[Pedge1971]

That wouldn't even be close to viable

Serious and genuine question. Why?

If they can get a Toronto team playing in the English Championship (and maybe ESL in the future) why would a tier 2 league of this nature be overly ambitious?

Does union really have its claws into the game that much?

 

[bowes]

Serious and genuine question. Why?

If they can get a Toronto team playing in the English Championship (and maybe ESL in the future) why would a tier 2 league of this nature be overly ambitious?

Does union really have its claws into the game that much?

It's not about union as such, though the amateur games in Wales and Ireland are too reliant on RU players (there effectively is no amateur game in Scotland). Wales can only enter two clubs into the third tier in England (and one of those moves ground every season and is on the last roll of the dice. Asking them to travel further isn't going to make more clubs join. Ireland may be able to enter one club in the third tier at some point but any more would be pushing it. And as for Scotland, there are two teams in the whole of Scotland that can't always raise a team to play each other

 

[Pedge1971]

It's not about union as such, though the amateur games in Wales and Ireland are too reliant on RU players (there effectively is no amateur game in Scotland). Wales can only enter two clubs into the third tier in England (and one of those moves ground every season and is on the last roll of the dice. Asking them to travel further isn't going to make more clubs join. Ireland may be able to enter one club in the third tier at some point but any more would be pushing it. And as for Scotland, there are two teams in the whole of Scotland that can't always raise a team to play each other

Thanks. I guess the question becomes with the right level of investment from the world governing body could that situation be improved over a few years. Or does no one in those countries really give a f**k?