17th TEAM

[The Great Dane]

That would make the Titans the Gold Coast's most successful team then....

Sure, but being the most success club from the GC isn't much of an achievement...

The thing about the GC, when you compare it to Townsville, is that the GC's population is mostly transient. Its full of tourists, international students, retirees from interstate (not just Vic. Plenty there from NSW/Sydney as well) and FIFO workers with a bit of coin who are only there a couple of weeks at a time. The population, particularly in the that along the coast line, isn't a guaranteed population. I mean, its almost impossible to go out your door on the GC without tripping over someone from South America, Asia or Europe.

When you look at Townsville its a lot more settled. Long-term uni students, Military Families who are there for a few years at least and locally born Australians who have probably never left Townsville. Yes it has some of the aspects that the GC has as well but not in as greater number as the GC.


If anything, the GC needs to target those international travellers and short stay students to spread the gospel of NRL to international markets. They come to a game, encourage them to sign up as an international member and give them a 'member's pack' on the spot at the game (souveniers), make it a party atmosphere, sell the sport as a whole and then people take the Titans name back home with them. Unfortunately, they need some on-field success to improve that name.

Canberra has a similarly transient population, and with the exception of a 5-10 year period when the club was actively antagonistic to the fan-base, the club hasn't really struggled to build a fan-base.

Why is Canberra different from the GC; the Raiders are simply a better run club than the Titans (or any of the GC clubs) that do more to promote themselves in the community and have had some success on the pitch.

If the Titans had good marketing and advertising, promoted themselves at every opportunity through community engagement, and invested in improving their game day experience, their support on the GC would start growing rapidly. Add some success on the pitch and they'd explode in popularity.

There's really no reason why they couldn't be as successful in growing their support base, if not more successful, than the other regional clubs (i.e. NQ, Newcastle, and Canberra), except for poor decisions that they have made.

 

[The Great Dane]

Gold Coast United were a professionally run soccer club that had onfield success. They averaged 5,000 to their games.

Though they were reasonably successful on the pitch, the whole reason that their A-league license was revoked was because they were poorly run by Clive Palmer, who was a massive pain in the FFA's arse.
In other words they were literally kicked out of the A-league because of how poorly they were run.

GCU still exist BTW.

Fumbleball will never be popular in Queensland. The only people who watch it up here are the Victorians that have moved interstate to retire on the Gold Coast. Most of them are old and will soon die from old age.

Such hubris is the exact reason why Baseball is no longer 'America's favorite pastime', and why the Swans and Storm, who would 'never last' in Sydney and Melbourne, are each having so much success...

There's no such thing as too big to fail.

 

[The Great Dane]

You misunderstand me. I don't explain myself very well. Put a Leagues Club here for an NRL team that represents the area and rugby league fans will gladly overlook the Lions@Springwood. Provide better food and entertainment and neutrals will choose it over Lions@Springwood.

That's not my experience in Canberra at all.

Most people go to a club either because it's convenient, it's got good food, it's where their friends go, or some mixture of all of the above.

Most people won't go out of their way just because it's owned by a professional sports club that they like.

 

[Perth Red]

Sure, but being the most success club from the GC isn't much of an achieve...

Canberra has a similarly transient population, and with the exception of a 5-10 year period when the club was actively antagonistic to the fan-base, the club hasn't really struggled to build a fan-base.

Why is Canberra different from the GC; the Raiders are simply a better run club than the Titans (or any of the GC clubs) that do more to promote themselves in the community and have had some success on the pitch.

If the Titans had good marketing and advertising, promoted themselves at every opportunity through community engagement, and invested in improving their game day experience, their support on the GC would start growing rapidly. Add some success on the pitch and they'd explode in popularity.

There's really no reason why they couldn't be as successful in growing their support base, if not more successful, than the other regional clubs (i.e. NQ, Newcastle, and Canberra), except for poor decisions that they have made.

Whilst I dont disagree about being better run the Titans do actually have a higher attendance avg than Canberra. Id like to see what happens with them with a bit of on-field success and when run properly, then we can judge if the GC public want to watch NRL or not.

 

[Perth Red]

That's not my experience in Canberra at all.

Most people go to a club either because it's convenient, it's got good food, it's where their friends go, or some mixture of all of the above.

Most people won't go out of their way just because it's owned by a professional sports club that they like.

I think thats reflective in membership numbers between LC and NRL club!

 

[The Great Dane]

Whilst I dont disagree about being better run the Titans do actually have a higher attendance avg than Canberra. Id like to see what happens with them with a bit of on-field success and when run properly, then we can judge if the GC public want to watch NRL or not.

The Titans didn't average more than the Raiders last year (CBR 14864, GC 11587), but considering the differences between the two markets they should be easily outdrawing the Raiders.

The fact they're not shows that they've got serious problems.

 

[Perth Red]

The Titans didn't average more than the Raiders last year (CBR 14864, GC 11587), but considering the differences between the two markets they should be easily outdrawing the Raiders.

The fact they're not shows that they've got serious problems.

TBF you've cherry [picked Canberra best year since the 80's there! Over last 5 years GC have better crowds 3 of the 5 years and overall avg over last 5 years has GC very slightly ahead. Considering on field form and the fact they went bust and had to be taken over by NRL I'd say that's not bad going!

2019
Can 14.8k
GC 11.6k

2018
GC 12.8k
Can 11.8k

2017
Can 14.1k
GC 13.7k

2016
GC 13.8k
Can 12.1k

2015
GC 11.2k
Can 9.6k

 

[The Great Dane]

TBF you've cherry [picked Canberra best year since the 80's there! Over last 5 years GC have better crowds 3 of the 5 years and overall avg over last 5 years has GC very slightly ahead. Considering on field form and the fact they went bust and had to be taken over by NRL I'd say that's not bad going!

2019
Can 14.8k
GC 11.6k

2018
GC 12.8k
Can 11.8k

2017
Can 14.1k
GC 13.7k

2016
GC 13.8k
Can 12.1k

2015
GC 11.2k
Can 9.6k

IMO things change so quickly that you're only as good as your last season in subjects like this. But you've missed my point anyway.

What is a good or bad crowd is different depending on the factors in each market, and considering the differences and constraints on the markets Canberra's peak is lower than the GC's.

So though Canberra's crowds may be numerically lower on average than the GC's, they are actually better crowds in a lot of ways when you take into consideration things like population, competition in the market, time slots, climate, infrastructure and facilities, etc.

When you consider the size of the GC's market and the fact that there're millions more people within short distance of the GC market, the quality of it's stadium, the climate on the GC, etc, etc, they could/should be getting close to 10k more then they currently are.

BTW, I think that the Raiders (and pretty much all the NRL clubs) crowds are below what they could/should be getting, so though I'd say that their crowds are better than the GC's, they're still sub par in my opinion.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Though they were reasonably successful on the pitch, the whole reason that their A-league license was revoked was because they were poorly run by Clive Palmer, who was a massive pain in the FFA's arse.
In other words they were literally kicked out of the A-league because of how poorly they were run.

GCU still exist BTW.

Such hubris is the exact reason why Baseball is no longer 'America's favorite pastime', and why the Swans and Storm, who would 'never last' in Sydney and Melbourne, are each having so much success...

There's no such thing as too big to fail.

GCU were probably the richest club in the history of the A-League. The team had its own plane to fly around in. A poorly run club wouldn't have been so successful on the pitch. The reason they fell over was because they averaged about 5,000, so Clive Palmer only paid to have the western stand opened to save money. He was in the right. Soccer fans threw a tantrum because they have an entitlement complex and are bitter about being irrelevant to most Australians. The Titans don't open the southern stand due to the high costs charged by Stadiums Queensland.

 

[mongoose]

What is a good or bad crowd is different depending on the factors in each market, and considering the differences and constraints on the markets Canberra's peak is lower than the GC's.
.

If you factor in all those things then you want to know what team really has the poorest crowds? look no further than the Broncos.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

IMO things change so quickly that you're only as good as your last season in subjects like this. But you've missed my point anyway.

What is a good or bad crowd is different depending on the factors in each market, and considering the differences and constraints on the markets Canberra's peak is lower than the GC's.

So though Canberra's crowds may be numerically lower on average than the GC's, they are actually better crowds in a lot of ways when you take into consideration things like population, competition in the market, time slots, climate, infrastructure and facilities, etc.

When you consider the size of the GC's market and the fact that there're millions more people within short distance of the GC market, the quality of it's stadium, the climate on the GC, etc, etc, they could/should be getting close to 10k more then they currently are.

BTW, I think that the Raiders (and pretty much all the NRL clubs) crowds are below what they could/should be getting, so though I'd say that their crowds are better than the GC's, they're still sub par in my opinion.

The Titans have been around for 13 years. A generation have grown up on the GC with them as their team. They have a wonderful stadium and a great climate. The team is unsuccessful, but that doesn't stop fans from getting behind a team if they really like them. GC's problem is the people there are spoilt for choice and would rather go to the movies, play video games, surf and swim at the beach, go clubbing or take their kids to a theme park a few times a year to get them out of their hair.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

If you factor in all those things then you want to know what team really has the poorest crowds? look no further than the Broncos.

Now you know why I chose "Get Rid of the Donkeys". The deliberate destruction of the BRL by the Broncos created a huge void that is yet to be filled. You, The Great Dane and Perth Red think the Donkeys and another team called Brisbane is the answer. It won't undo the damage. The only way to fix this mess is to cut out the malignant tumour that is the Donkeys and replace it with BRL clubs that have history dating back to 1909.

Brisbane is the second largest rugby league city in the world and needs to have more than 2 teams. At the moment it only has 1.

 

[The Great Dane]

GCU were probably the richest club in the history of the A-League. The team had its own plane to fly around in. A poorly run club wouldn't have been so successful on the pitch. The reason they fell over was because they averaged about 5,000, so Clive Palmer only paid to have the western stand opened to save money. He was in the right. Soccer fans threw a tantrum because they have an entitlement complex and are bitter about being irrelevant to most Australians. The Titans don't open the southern stand due to the high costs charged by Stadiums Queensland.

They were only the 'richest' A-league club because of Palmer's backing, they never made a dime of their own.

You are also massively underselling how much of a pain in the arse Palmer was.
Anytime he didn't get his way he'd threaten to pull funding for the club, anytime somebody did something he didn't like he'd try to punish them, constantly antagonistic to everybody, constantly acting crazy, etc, etc.

He was basically everything you don't want in an owner, and it was his actions that saw the FFA pull their license, not anybody else's.

 

[The Great Dane]

The Titans have been around for 13 years. A generation have grown up on the GC with them as their team. They have a wonderful stadium and a great climate. The team is unsuccessful, but that doesn't stop fans from getting behind a team if they really like them. GC's problem is the people there are spoilt for choice and would rather go to the movies, play video games, surf and swim at the beach, go clubbing or take their kids to a theme park a few times a year to get them out of their hair.

I don't necessarily disagree that the Titans are struggling to compete with all the entertainment options on the GC, in fact I'm sure that all NRL clubs struggle with that to some degree, however I think you are overselling it and it doesn't excuse their failure to properly market themselves.

 

[Perth Red]

If you factor in all those things then you want to know what team really has the poorest crowds? look no further than the Broncos.

I wish all clubs had crowds as poor as the Broncos lol

 

[The Great Dane]

Now you know why I chose "Get Rid of the Donkeys". The deliberate destruction of the BRL by the Broncos created a huge void that is yet to be filled. You, The Great Dane and Perth Red think the Donkeys and another team called Brisbane is the answer. It won't undo the damage. The only way to fix this mess is to cut out the malignant tumour that is the Donkeys and replace it with BRL clubs that have history dating back to 1909.

Brisbane is the second largest rugby league city in the world and needs to have more than 2 teams. At the moment it only has 1.

So basically we should swap 1 or 2 strong well supported clubs for half a dozen weak ones that all fight over their smaller shares of the market.
I mean that's worked out great for Sydney, the largest market for RL on the planet, where at best one team makes a profit a year...

The NRL only has a finite amount of resources and space in the competition at any one time, so if we allow that for the time being it can support up to about 20 clubs before it has major negative impacts on the competition and the NRL as a business, who is going to miss out so Brisbane can have teams 3, 4, 5, etc?

Do we just give up on ever growing into Perth, Adelaide, NZ, etc, or do we start culling current teams?

 

[The Great Dane]

I wish all clubs had crowds as poor as the Broncos lol

If the Broncos and/or the Brisbane market were everything that they are made out to be they'd be averaging 40k+.

They should really be what the West Coast Eagles are to the AFL, but they aren't because they, and the rest of the NRL clubs, don't even really try to build their fan bases and attendances.

 

[Perth Red]

If the Broncos and/or the Brisbane market were everything that they are made out to be they'd be averaging 40k+.

They should really be what the West Coast Eagles are to the AFL, but they aren't because they, and the rest of the NRL clubs, don't even really try to build their fan bases and attendances.

I think we have to accept nrl is not as popular/or doesn’t have the fan commitment of afl. Either way we are a long way from their attending fanbase across the board. Even on the business side, broncos have a revenue of around $56mill, Eagles $100mill.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

If the Broncos and/or the Brisbane market were everything that they are made out to be they'd be averaging 40k+.

They should really be what the West Coast Eagles are to the AFL, but they aren't because they, and the rest of the NRL clubs, don't even really try to build their fan bases and attendances.

You don't really understand us Queenslanders and our beef very well. I cannot speak for everyone else from Brisbane, but I will never support the Broncos because I hate what they did to the BRL. Queenslanders are proud people and we have a long and storied rugby league history of our own that isn't given the recognition it deserves. Those of us who remember it aren't going to forget it, nor are we going to forgive those who took it away from us. Seeing the Broncos logo makes my blood boil because they connived, lied, stole and bullied every BRL club into submission by exploiting Joh's anti-pokies law. Donkeys got fat and rich by taking all the talent that was nurtured by the local competition, said they would compensate them and not play games at Lang Park at the same time as the BRL was held, then proceeded to break every one of their promises in 1988. It's no surprise that the club that set out to destroy the Brisbane competition tried the same thing on with the Sydney competition less than a decade later.

I attend QLD Cup games. There is still support there for Easts, Wynnum, Redcliffe and Ipswich. Norths have some support too. Souths do it tough these days. Bring 3 or 4 of these clubs into the NRL and not only will rugby league draw more than 40,000 spectators to games in Brisbane each week, but fumbleball and onionball will probably fizzle out of the market up here.

 

[The Great Dane]

I think we have to accept nrl is not as popular/or doesn’t have the fan commitment of afl. Either way we are a long way from their attending fanbase across the board. Even on the business side, broncos have a revenue of around $56mill, Eagles $100mill.

This is only true because of the club's and NRL's decisions and what they prioritise (i.e. the football department over everything else), and there's no reason why it couldn't change.

There's also this weird culture of people in RL being scared to pass judgment on what it takes to be a fan and who is and isn't a fan.
I've got to the point where I'll just call posers out, if more people would do the same then I think we'd see massive change, but this is another topic.