18th club, whose next?

[AdelaideSharky]

There should probably be some investigation or audit into the junior situation in VIC. It won't happen though, you know why? cause the NRL doesn't care.

Something has to be done, I've never bought the whole excuse of Victoria being an AFL state line.

If that was the case how are there heaps of clubs in the VRL competition that started after Melbourne entered the NRL.

 

[Perth Red]

Something has to be done, I've never bought the whole excuse of Victoria being an AFL state line.

If that was the case how are there heaps of clubs in the VRL competition that started after Melbourne entered the NRL.

Its just a reflection of lack of investment, strategy and the games inability to make itself relevant outside of a couple of states. Vic are finally getting some State Govt investment with their new training centre and HQ but its been a long time coming. IMO things have gone backwards since the NRl took over the affiliated states, at least when we had our own boards there was ambition, now it seems things just plod along.

 

[AdelaideSharky]

Its just a reflection of lack of investment, strategy and the games inability to make itself relevant outside of a couple of states. Vic are finally getting some State Govt investment with their new training centre and HQ but its been a long time coming. IMO things have gone backwards since the NRl took over the affiliated states, at least when we had our own boards there was ambition, now it seems things just plod along.

Don't start me on the Affiliated States competitions.

The ISC Cup here in SA is a joke, Central Districts Roosters field two teams in it and a few clubs have gone the way of the dodo the last couple of years.

 

[Perth Red]

Don't start me on the Affiliated States competitions.

The ISC Cup here in SA is a joke, Central Districts Roosters field two teams in it and a few clubs have gone the way of the dodo the last couple of years.

We are just very lucky in the West we had a decent base to start with, an amazing CEO who stayed and an investor in Cummins willing to bankroll jnr development. I'd hate to think of the state of the game here if it was left to NRLHQ! AFL pumps five times more money into grassroots in NSW than the NRL puts into every state outside of NSW and Qlnd put together! Oh well such is Vlandys and his lack of vision for growing the game in the 'rusted on' afl states.

Kind of why it irks me when people say there shouldnt be a Perth NRl team until you are producing more players. Like how do you think NRLWA can do that with no money and no support and competing against Twiggy and the Force pathway? If it was possible then you could cut half the Sydney clubs and not worry about grassroots disappearing!

 

[AdelaideSharky]

We are just very lucky in the West we had a decent base to start with, an amazing CEO who stayed and an investor in Cummins willing to bankroll jnr development. I'd hate to think of the state of the game here if it was left to NRLHQ! AFL pumps five times more money into grassroots in NSW than the NRL puts into every state outside of NSW and Qlnd put together! Oh well such is Vlandys and his lack of vision for growing the game in the 'rusted on' afl states.

Kind of why it irks me when people say there shouldnt be a Perth NRl team until you are producing more players. Like how do you think NRLWA can do that with no money and no support and competing against Twiggy and the Force pathway? If it was possible then you could cut half the Sydney clubs and not worry about grassroots disappearing!

For all your good points you shoot yourself in the foot with rubbish like that.

You must live a pretty sheltered life in the Banana Republic of Western Australia but if you remember the outrage that erupted at Souths' expulsion and the leg up the Swans got from clubs like Norths, Balmain & Wests all disappearing.

Cut half the Sydney clubs and that just hands it to the AFL and soccer on a silver platter.

That's it f**k Perth and WA. Until that f**khead dictator Chairman McClown is in prison and WA wants to join the rest of Australia the state deserves two parts of f**k all.

The sooner WA secedes and f**ks off and starts it own country and competition the better off the rest of us will be.

 

[Perth Red]

For all your good points you shoot yourself in the foot with rubbish like that.

You must live a pretty sheltered life in the Banana Republic of Western Australia but if you remember the outrage that erupted at Souths' expulsion and the leg up the Swans got from clubs like Norths, Balmain & Wests all disappearing.

Cut half the Sydney clubs and that just hands it to the AFL and soccer on a silver platter.

That's it f**k Perth and WA. Until that f**khead dictator Chairman McClown is in prison and WA wants to join the rest of Australia the state deserves two parts of f**k all.

The sooner WA secedes and f**ks off and starts it own country and competition the better off the rest of us will be.

cHill I'm just throwing back hypocritical arguments you hear on here all the time. 'You cant cut sydney clubs or else kids wont play the game', but for perth to GET a team you have to have MORE kids playing the gamE. Double standards LOL!

As for the rest, nice rant, now go and have a lie down

 

[AdelaideSharky]

cHill I'm just throwing back hypocritical arguments you hear on here all the time. 'You cant cut sydney clubs or else kids wont play the game', but for perth to GET a team you have to have MORE kids playing the gamE. Double standards LOL!

As for the rest, nice rant, now go and have a lie down

No need to lie down, just fed up of a Sandgroper who's never lived in Sydney in his life trying to tell us that they think they know better.

You completely and utterly missed my earlier point, I was referring to Melbourne who have been in the competition since 1998 and in that 23 years only produced two local juniors in Mahe Fonua and Young Tonumaipea. 2 juniors to show for 23 years in the big league is absolutely pathetic.

 

[Perth Red]

No need to lie down, just fed up of a Sandgroper who's never lived in Sydney in his life trying to tell us that they think they know better.

You completely and utterly missed my earlier point, I was referring to Melbourne who have been in the competition since 1998 and in that 23 years only produced two local juniors in Mahe Fonua and Young Tonumaipea. 2 juniors to show for 23 years in the big league is absolutely pathetic.

For the umpteenth time, Storm won’t have elite jnrs to develop until the game invests in participation rates, I dont disagree they could be doing a better job but it’s a simple return on investment. If the nrl was putting into Victoria what afl puts into nsw I can guarantee there’d be dozens of melbourne players by now.

 

[AdelaideSharky]

For the umpteenth time, Storm won’t have elite jnrs to develop until the game invests in participation rates, I dont disagree they could be doing a better job but it’s a simple return on investment. If the nrl was putting into Victoria what afl puts into nsw I can guarantee there’d be dozens of melbourne players by now.

And that's the fault of the evil clubs from Sydney (according to you) now is it?

You keep waffling on that's there too many clubs in Sydney yet there's more Melbourne clubs in the AFL (including Geelong).

 

[mongoose]

And that's the fault of the evil clubs from Sydney (according to you) now is it?

You keep waffling on that's there too many clubs in Sydney yet there's more Melbourne clubs in the AFL (including Geelong).

Melbourne has 9 AFL clubs, Sydney has 9 NRL clubs and yes there is Geelong but NRL has Newcastle.

 

[Perth Red]

And that's the fault of the evil clubs from Sydney (according to you) now is it?

You keep waffling on that's there too many clubs in Sydney yet there's more Melbourne clubs in the AFL (including Geelong).

No I’ve said sydney many times should be the games strength but with the basket case clubs, inc the sharks over the years, it’s been our Achilles heal. There is an argument that the weakness of our heartland has stopped the nrl being able to invest and grow outside of it. Indeed the nrl itself has stated this many times over the last two decades going all the way back to Gallop who talked about the need to shore up the heartland and save the struggling clubs before expanding.

There are also too many afl clubs in melbourne, but they haven’t let it stop them from growing their sport. Some melbourne clubs require double the afl grant of others.

I’ve got no skin in the game for more or less Sydney clubs, just don’t hold the game back, anyway now you’re going off the topic of melbourne jnrs and expansion lol

 

[AdelaideSharky]

No I’ve said sydney many times should be the games strength but with the basket case clubs, inc the sharks over the years, it’s been our Achilles heal. There is an argument that the weakness of our heartland has stopped the nrl being able to invest and grow outside of it. Indeed the nrl itself has stated this many times over the last two decades going all the way back to Gallop who talked about the need to shore up the heartland and save the struggling clubs before expanding.

There are also too many afl clubs in melbourne, but they haven’t let it stop them from growing their sport. Some melbourne clubs require double the afl grant of others.

I’ve got no skin in the game for more or less Sydney clubs, just don’t hold the game back, anyway now you’re going off the topic of melbourne jnrs and expansion lol

Comparing ourselves to the AFL is a pointless exercise to begin with.

The expansion the AFL have made bar NSW & Qld have largely been in their traditional heartland.

The NRL has an advantage in looking at NZ & the Pacific that the AFL could only dream about.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

It’s ironic people say north Sydney has lost interest due to not having an nrl club anymore yet expect perth to be able to match junior Systems of established areas with nrl clubs without one! Unless we have a direct pathway we will see our best kids either sign for Force or move to the east coast to put themselves in the shop window. We don’t have pokies and the nrl won’t fund a second tier team so how do we improve our jnrs without an nrl club? This year we’ve had two WA jnrs make their first grade debuts (Dogs and Manly). I’m interested to know how people think we can improve our jnrs if thats going to be the litmus test for getting a club?

It's a massive double standard, isn't it?

If we want Perth and Adelaide to become heartland areas then we need to give them a stake at the table.

I think there needs to be a change to the Origin system to help foster growth. Our game has used Origin to promote the game since the 1980s, so why don't we gently phase out the Queensland vs NSW brand and make it Maroons vs Blues?

Link the governing bodies for the game in Northern Territory, Western Australia and Victoria with the QRL so that players raised in those states and territories and developed under their systems can represent Queensland. NSWRL can have ACT, South Australia and Tasmania. If it helps convince the ARL, QRL and NSWRL to throw more money at developing the junior leagues across Australia to produce more players then that can only be a good thing. If it helps people across Australia choose a team to support then great, as it will improve ratings and make the annual Origin series even bigger and more lucrative to our broadcasters and sponsors.

 

[Perth Red]

It's a massive double standard, isn't it?

If we want Perth and Adelaide to become heartland areas then we need to give them a stake at the table.

I think there needs to be a change to the Origin system to help foster growth. Our game has used Origin to promote the game since the 1980s, so why don't we gently phase out the Queensland vs NSW brand and make it Maroons vs Blues?

Link the governing bodies for the game in Northern Territory, Western Australia and Victoria with the QRL so that players raised in those states and territories and developed under their systems can represent Queensland. NSWRL can have ACT, South Australia and Tasmania. If it helps convince the ARL, QRL and NSWRL to throw more money at developing the junior leagues across Australia to produce more players then that can only be a good thing. If it helps people across Australia choose a team to support then great, as it will improve ratings and make the annual Origin series even bigger and more lucrative to our broadcasters and sponsors.

Id just go back to the sustem before that Jnrs that play in the relevant state comp are eligible for that side. ie WA jnrs eligible for NSw as they played for Pirates in SG Ball. TBH the interest in Origin outside of NSW and Qlnd is just as it has become such a big sporting spectacle so dont think you necessary need strong alliance.

Whats needed is NRLVic and NRLWA to be given an extra $3mill each a year to increase particpation rates, SHS scholarship programs and elite Jnr academies, SA and NT $1mill each to get them started. WA to get a NRL team and NSW cup team and ourt media partnes to actually invest in growing the games audeinces outside the two heartland states. But thats just wishful thinking under our current regime sadly.

 

[Perth Red]

Comparing ourselves to the AFL is a pointless exercise to begin with.

The expansion the AFL have made bar NSW & Qld have largely been in their traditional heartland.

The NRL has an advantage in looking at NZ & the Pacific that the AFL could only dream about.

why? They are our main competitor and setting the bar. They are the perfect place to comapre ourselves to. They have 4 clubs in exansion states with one of them also having a strong footprint in the ACT and have a regualr presence in Tassie. Two massive clubs in smaller heartland cities and a system that sustains 9 clubs in its main city. We've tended to focus on regional heartland centres which isnt a bad thing but has meant we dont have much space to expand further into largely untapped new city markets. For all our new money over the last decade we only have 1 club in an expansion city and no real plan for realising those opportunities you speak of. We wont expand into the pacific isl or PNG as they are non sustainable markets from a revenue generation point of view. Its questionable if a second NZ team outside of Auckland2 is even possible and that would be the most obvious place. At least we have finally got a second Brisabne club (sort of!) back but even that most obvious of moves has taken 20 years!

 

[MugaB]

Kind of why it irks me when people say there shouldnt be a Perth NRl team until you are producing more players. Like how do you think NRLWA can do that with no money and no support and competing against Twiggy and the Force pathway? If it was possible then you could cut half the Sydney clubs and not worry about grassroots disappearing!

Don't confuse producing junior talent, with being competitive at junior level..
Every time we have these similar conversations, you want to bring up lack of funding or how many WA junior debuts, that all irrelevant... you need to have junior TEAMs like the SG ball pirates or whoever beating the like of Souths juniors, Balmain tigers or Victorian thunderbolts or anyone basically, you have juniors, and there is a team, what else is needed, better coaching?
Coaching fundamentals.. get better at competing... no one is handing out a license to an expansion city if they are just gonna live in the doldrums and collect wodden spoons

 

[Perth Red]

Don't confuse producing junior talent, with being competitive at junior level..
Every time we have these similar conversations, you want to bring up lack of funding or how many WA junior debuts, that all irrelevant... you need to have junior TEAMs like the SG ball pirates or whoever beating the like of Souths juniors, Balmain tigers or Victorian thunderbolts or anyone basically, you have juniors, and there is a team, what else is needed, better coaching?
Coaching fundamentals.. get better at competing... no one is handing out a license to an expansion city is thet are just gonna live in the doldrums and collect wodden spoons

Its not that simple. First its a numbers game. The more kids playing the more talent comes through to the top. Second its then about quality of training, coaching nutrition etc etc from 12 upwards. Thats at local club level and in the elite pathways. Then its about keeping hold of them at 16 to keep developing. You've got to remember we dont have 5000 kids to choose from, the option to sign the best 16 year olds from neighbouring regions, a pokie dens throwing millions of $'s at it. The money some of these SG ball sides have spent on them is eye watering! We often field one of the youngest SG Ball sides in the comp as our best get picked off in Yr1 by East coast or Union meaning that we have a lot of young kids each year that step up to replace them.

At the moment our SG ball is primarily serving two purposes. Putting our kids in the shop window so hopefully some NRl club sees them and signs them and two improving the quality of player that then goes back into the NRLWA clubs and brings up the quality of that comp.

That's a big call given the performance of some Sydney clubs in recent years that have all the jnr advanatges in the world, yet the two most recently successful cubs in the NRL have very little Jnr development. I think you may be confusing what makes an NRL club successful. In fact apart from the Panthers and to a lessor degree Manly I'm struggling to think of a heartland club in recent years that has had sustained success built on its own jnr programs?? Look at the Bulldogs or Tigers, two massive Jnr areas, massive pokie den funding jnrs yet constantly underperforming and responding by filling their teams with other clubs players.

 

[MugaB]

Its not that simple. First its a numbers game. The more kids playing the more talent comes through to the top. Second its then about quality of training, coaching nutrition etc etc from 12 upwards. Thats at local club level and in the elite pathways. Then its about keeping hold of them at 16 to keep developing. You've got to remember we dont have 5000 kids to choose from, the option to sign the best 16 year olds from neighbouring regions, a pokie dens throwing millions of $'s at it. The money some of these SG ball sides have spent on them is eye watering! We often field one of the youngest SG Ball sides in the comp as our best get picked off in Yr1 by East coast or Union meaning that we have a lot of young kids each year that step up to replace them.

At the moment our SG ball is primarily serving two purposes. Putting our kids in the shop window so hopefully some NRl club sees them and signs them and two improving the quality of player that then goes back into the NRLWA clubs and brings up the quality of that comp.

That's a big call given the performance of some Sydney clubs in recent years that have all the jnr advanatges in the world, yet the two most recently successful cubs in the NRL have very little Jnr development. I think you may be confusing what makes an NRL club successful. In fact apart from the Panthers and to a lessor degree Manly I'm struggling to think of a heartland club in recent years that has had sustained success built on its own jnr programs?? Look at the Bulldogs or Tigers, two massive Jnr areas, massive pokie den funding jnrs yet constantly underperforming and responding by filling their teams with other clubs players.

Again confused about junior development vs being competitive, pokies don't create teams, having a huge junior base means nothing if you're not picking the eyes out of it, dogs and tigers have great junior depth, trouble is their top end roster... long contracts with mercs...
WA, should be next in line for a License, but how would they be competitive? They simply won't, so whats the point, does the NRL want a team 5 hours away that gets beat consistently, how often do we laugh about the AFL GC suns? Top down approach can happen, but why put effort into a region when all they are expecting is a hand out..
Like seriously i want a perth team, but they can't be easy beats

 

[AdelaideSharky]

why? They are our main competitor and setting the bar. They are the perfect place to comapre ourselves to. They have 4 clubs in exansion states with one of them also having a strong footprint in the ACT and have a regualr presence in Tassie. Two massive clubs in smaller heartland cities and a system that sustains 9 clubs in its main city. We've tended to focus on regional heartland centres which isnt a bad thing but has meant we dont have much space to expand further into largely untapped new city markets. For all our new money over the last decade we only have 1 club in an expansion city and no real plan for realising those opportunities you speak of. We wont expand into the pacific isl or PNG as they are non sustainable markets from a revenue generation point of view. Its questionable if a second NZ team outside of Auckland2 is even possible and that would be the most obvious place. At least we have finally got a second Brisabne club (sort of!) back but even that most obvious of moves has taken 20 years!

The AFL has no international presence whatsoever.

League does although on a smallish scale.

A second New Zealand team be it either Christchurch or Wellington.

What makes you think Perth would be generate revenue for the NRL that a second NZ wouldn't?

There's the small but big matter of 5-7 hour flights for teams to travel to Perth each week which would be economically unviable unless the league or any new Perth team is sponsored by an airline.

Look no further than Toronto's struggles in Super League (I was a Wolfpack fan).

The club lived and died out of the pockets of David Argyle who had to secure an airline to sponsor the club to afford the costs from travelling to Manchester from Canada and vice versa and that is the same distance the Warriors and any second NZ team would face going to Perth.

 

[ReddFelon]

To really understand just how much the AFL invests into development in Queensland in particular, since 2016 Palm Beach Currumbin State High have won senior and junior championships every year in the AFLQ Cup. They're also a dominant Rugby League school.

Just in the Gold Coast alone we've got PBC, Helensvale, Southport and Pacific Pines all offering AFL excellence programs. Add to that it's becoming a prominent fixture in Catholic and Independent schools. The schools that offer League are running AFL alongside it and the schools that offer Rugby are doing the same.

The AFL has latched on as a school sport for working, middle and upper class people. As a result it's getting huge investment and broad appeal. The NRL needs to address this by supporting areas like WA, Vic and SA because those are places the AFL are far happier to rest on their laurels.